PSA: Please have your melees use the cater-cornered formation more often.

[Deathtongue]

In full disclosure, I'm embarrassed it took me so long to realize this. So here's the setup. In a party I was just in, there was a barbarian and a paladin. I was playing a ranged wizard. We (they) were swarming a Gladiator. I got my Flaming Sphere on. The paladin and barbarian stood cater-cornered (kitty-cornered) to the gladiator to avoid taking Flaming Sphere damage. Now, recall, Flaming Sphere does damage when you ram it into a creature as a bonus action OR they end their turn within 5 feet of it.

[F][ ][P]
[ ][G][ ]
[B][ ][ ]

The map key should be obvious.

So the Gladiator had a choice of moving away from the Flaming Sphere and drawing a potentially more painful OA. Or they could stand there and take it. And note that this wouldn't just apply to Flaming Sphere; it could happen with Evard's Black Tentacles, Wall of Fire, or even something as humble as Create Bonfire.

[stoutstien]

3 on one is going to be a slaughter regardless.

[R.Shackleford]

3 on one is going to be a slaughter regardless.

Yeah... Honestly, flaming sphere was a waste of a spell slot.

[The Jack]

The MM gladiator is real strong though, low level play and after a few mooks to softenthe players up...

[Deathtongue]

3 on one is going to be a slaughter regardless.Not if you're all level 4. A gladiator is no joke at that level, especially mixed with other baddies (not seen). Some bad rolls and that would've been that.

[Lombra]

Play with flanking rules and formations such as this will often come up by themselves

[SociopathFriend]

So basically- "position better" in a more specific sense?

Because that's a pretty general D&D complaint in all honesty. Right up there with, "Watch your AoE!"

Is there a wall? Fight with your back against it- saves you at least one direction the enemy can come from.
Don't fight single-file or separately- watch each other's backs.
Is there a high ground? Seize it.
A door? Close it.

[Spiritchaser]

Play with flanking rules and formations such as this will often come up by themselves

Purely out of curiosity, how do you manage the flanking rules with animate objects/conjure animals etc.

Edit: to be clear: I love the idea of flanking rules, and I do play in one campaign where they are used, but don’t currently use them in my campaigns, largely because of how they strongly empower mass summons

[Deathtongue]

So basically- "position better" in a more specific sense?

Because that's a pretty general D&D complaint in all honesty. Right up there with, "Watch your AoE!"I don't think this advice is all that intuitive. Compare these three flanking set-ups. G for Gladiator (enemy), P for Paladin, B for Barbarian.
Setup 1
[ ][P][ ]
[ ][G][ ]
[ ][ ]

[B]Setup 2
[ ][ ][ ]
[P][G]
[ ][ ][ ]

[B]Setup 3
[ ][ ][B]
[ ][G][ ]
[P][ ][ ]

A) In the first and second example, the Gladiator G can still move to two adjacent squares without drawing an OA. In the third example, the Gladiator can't move from their initial square at all without drawing an OA from either the Paladin or Barbarian.
B) Because of the way a lot of zones (mainly cubes) work, the wizard can't drop an additional Web / Flaming Sphere / whatever in a way that hinders the Gladiator in flanking setups 1 and 2 without getting the Paladin or Barbarian. In setup 3, however, they can manage it by centering the zone diagonally away from the Gladiator from a corner the Paladin and Barbarian are not in.

In a game like 3E and 4E D&D, where melee movement is stickier (5 feet usually once you're adjacent to your target), you might have to settle for Setups 1 or 2 initially. But in 5E D&D, there's little reason not to always go for Setup 3 immediately. Note that if starting from Setup 1 or 2, the Paladin and Barbarian will have to arrange their movement so that they both move before the Gladiator gets their turn. Otherwise the Gladiator can prevent a Cater-Cornered flank that round by simply moving in the same relative direction as the first person who moved.

[KorvinStarmast]

We (they) were swarming a Gladiator. I got my Flaming Sphere on. The paladin and barbarian stood cater-cornered (kitty-cornered) to the gladiator to avoid taking Flaming Sphere damage. Now, recall, Flaming Sphere does damage when you ram it into a creature as a bonus action OR they end their turn within 5 feet of it.
[F][ ][P]
[ ][G][ ]
[B][ ][ ]

So the Gladiator had a choice of moving away from the Flaming Sphere and drawing a potentially more painful OA. Or they could stand there and take it. And note that this wouldn't just apply to Flaming Sphere; it could happen with Evard's Black Tentacles, Wall of Fire, or even something as humble as Create Bonfire.If you are an evocation wizard it doesn't matter where they stand. :) (Sculpt Spell)

[GlenSmash!]

Yup, when playing with a mat or on Roll 20 I always take advantage of cornering and diagonal movement. Makes my Barbarian seem more mobile than he really is.

[MaxWilson]

In full disclosure, I'm embarrassed it took me so long to realize this. So here's the setup. In a party I was just in, there was a barbarian and a paladin. I was playing a ranged wizard. We (they) were swarming a Gladiator. I got my Flaming Sphere on. The paladin and barbarian stood cater-cornered (kitty-cornered) to the gladiator to avoid taking Flaming Sphere damage. Now, recall, Flaming Sphere does damage when you ram it into a creature as a bonus action OR they end their turn within 5 feet of it.

[F][ ][P]
[ ][G][ ]
[B][ ][ ]

The map key should be obvious.

So the Gladiator had a choice of moving away from the Flaming Sphere and drawing a potentially more painful OA. Or they could stand there and take it. And note that this wouldn't just apply to Flaming Sphere; it could happen with Evard's Black Tentacles, Wall of Fire, or even something as humble as Create Bonfire.

You realize I hope that the exact same dilemma presents itself even if there's just two PCs standing shoulder to shoulder? This isn't about kitty-corner formation specifically. It's just about terrain denial. E.g.

[F][ ][P]
[ ][G][B]
[ ][ ][ ]

Creates the same dilemma.

[Lombra]

Purely out of curiosity, how do you manage the flanking rules with animate objects/conjure animals etc.

Edit: to be clear: I love the idea of flanking rules, and I do play in one campaign where they are used, but don’t currently use them in my campaigns, largely because of how they strongly empower mass summons

Nobody has summoning spells in our party (but I guess they would work) and we don't allow them to work with animate objects.