Yo Necromancers! Worship me! For I have given you something AMAZING!

[RoboEmperor]

Race: Human

Class: Cleric1

Feats
1 Fell Animate
H Divine Metamagic: Fell Animate

Level 1
1. Prepare an Inflict Light Wounds spell
2. Find a dying creature (you can use your party to make one)
3. a. Cast Inflict Light Wounds
b. Apply Fell Animate to Inflict Light Wounds as a Free Action using Divine Metamagic:Fell Animate
c. Hold the charge and move next to the dying creature.
4. Next round Coup De Grace it with the Inflict Light Wounds as a full-round action
Result: FREE ZOMBIE ARMY AT LEVEL 1!!!

Level 7
1. Cast Magic Circle complete with Calling Diagram and Dimensional Anchor
2. Cast Lesser Planar Exchange while inside it to call in and fully control a Brown Bear, Griffon, Tiger, or Dire Ape (look up the spell it's in SpC)
3. Have the creature almost kill itself.
4. Have the creature deal nonlethal damage to itself to knock itself out.
5. Dismiss the Spell. You return and Magic Circle's Dimensional Anchor prevents the creature's from returning from whence it came.
6. Coup de Grace it with a Fell Animate Inflict Wounds spell
Result: FREE GRIFFON, BROWN BEAR, TIGER, AND DIRE APE ZOMBIES FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!

WORSHIP ME! FOR I HAVE MADE YOU LESS DM DEPENDENT!

XD

[Jack_Simth]

Race: Illumian

Class: Cleric 20

Feats
1 Fell Animate

Level 1
1. Prepare an Inflict Light Wounds spell
2. Find a dying creature (you can use your party to make one)
3. a. Cast Inflict Light Wounds
b. Apply Fell Animate to Inflict Light Wounds as a Swift Action using Naenhoon
c. Hold the charge and move next to the dying creature.
4. Next round Coup De Grace it with the Inflict Light Wounds as a full-round action
Result: FREE ZOMBIE ARMY AT LEVEL 1!!!

A stock human could take Divine Metamagic (Fell Animate) at 1st level and skip the "twice a day" restriction. You're saving one turn attempt per use, but adding a cap that'll be with you your entire career.

As to the other... part of the "image" of divine magic is that it's being granted to you by allies. Your deity (DM) *might* stop granting that spell if you're using it for no other reason than to slaughter the minions of your deity for their corpses.

[RoboEmperor]

A stock human could take Divine Metamagic (Fell Animate) at 1st level and skip the "twice a day" restriction. You're saving one turn attempt per use, but adding a cap that'll be with you your entire career.

Yup, but on the other hand, if you want to go Persistent Spell Illumian saves you two feats (two DMM feats), and you really won't be persisting more than two spells a day without some form of shenanigan like nightstick stacking or multiple turn pools.

And once you're high enough level you can just prepare a Fell Animate Inflict Light Wounds spell at which point DMM:Inflict Light Wounds might become useless.


As to the other... part of the "image" of divine magic is that it's being granted to you by allies. Your deity (DM) *might* stop granting that spell if you're using it for no other reason than to slaughter the minions of your deity for their corpses.

I see it as a Deityless Neutral Cleric deciding to kill two birds with one stone by killing an evil Fiendish Creature and gaining a zombie minion at the same time. Unlike Planar Ally you are in 100% control. But yeah, getting them brown bear or griffon corpses might be evil and might cause celestials to hunt you down.

[RoboEmperor]

WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT

IT MIGHT BE POSSIBLE TO USE MAGIC CIRCLE TO SKIP THE GLYPH SEAL!

Planar Exchange is a Calling Spell after all. So create the circle complete with calling diagram and Dimensional Anchor, cast Lesser Planar Exchange while inside it, have it knock itself out, and then you dismiss the spell. Creature is trapped in the circle so it can't teleport back to whence it came making this trick truly free!

[ericgrau]

Metamagic reducers and fell animate are already crazy without this trick. Metamagic reducers on even a single combat spell is nuts. Or fell animate ILW and tell your party to do at least 1 subdual damage hit on every enemy. You started the fell animate on level 1 instead of 7 for 4 HD of zombies/skellies which is kinda nice to double your level 1 effectiveness. Well, almost double, since it costs some of your effectiveness and takes practically all of level 1 to set up. But metamagic reducers at level 1 is already nutso by itself and might also get close to doubling your effectiveness. So it's more like broken + broken = more broken.

[tadkins]

If I worship you, what is my code as a cleric? What alignment are you, so I can pick one? What domains can I take? xD

[RoboEmperor]

If I worship you, what is my code as a cleric? What alignment are you, so I can pick one? What domains can I take? xD

My Portfolio is Minionmancy
My Alignment is True Neutral, because I don't give a damn about anything other than minionmancy. Necromancy and Fiends are involved so i'm not good, but at the same time i fight evil and avoid harming good so i'm not evil.
My Code is, if there is a job to be done, DON'T DO IT. Instead, make something that can do a better job than you and have it do it for you.
My domains encompasses all domains that assist minionmancy. Demonic, Dragon Below, Summoning, Envy, Charm, etc. etc.. If a domain lets you minionmancy it's covered by me.


So it's more like broken + broken = more broken.

This is incorrect. The correct answer is broken + broken = FUN!
Why should a necromancer wait until level 5 to raise his first body?
Why should a necromancer play 4 levels of non-necromancer just to play necromancer?
Why should a summoner play 4 levels of can't-summon-because-they-last-only-1-round-and-do-jack before they can contribute to a fight other than throwing webs around?
So in order to fix this, you need to use your noggin to circumvent the problem, which usually involves powerful things like Illumian and Fell Animate, or Assume Supernatural Ability, Alter SElf, and Persistent Spell

[ericgrau]

This is incorrect. The correct answer is broken + broken = FUN!
Why should a necromancer wait until level 5 to raise his first body?
Fair enough. Fun is always great. If everyone is playing at the same power level then more interesting options is a good thing.

[Florian]

So in order to fix this, you need to use your noggin to circumvent the problem

Smells like a bad excuse to power game by rules lawyering.

Because, you know, instead of doctoring around the symptoms, you could directly address the problem itself.

(Want to run around with a powerful permanent minion? Summoner or Spiritualist. Want to lead a squad of intelligent, auto-scaling and template-able skellis and zeds? Occultist. Create permanent undead at first level? Minor Animate Dead..... and so on, and so on. Yes, you can back port all of that into 3.5E without a fuss.)

[RoboEmperor]

Smells like a bad excuse to power game by rules lawyering.

I resent that.

Power Gaming is "I want to play a sorcerer, but wizards are so much better so screw that I will play wizards."

Me: "I want minions at level 1! DAMN THIS GAME FOR NOT GIVING ME MINIONS AT LEVEL 1! I'm gonna poke at this, poke at that, look up this, read this optimization guide, oh look I get my first minion at level 9. Boo, I want to do better, Look at this, look at that, Now I got minions at level 8! Not good enough! Prod this, prod that, I got minions at level 6! Hurray! Oh crap, I broke the game. Sorry! Apologize here, experiment there, I got minions at level 5!"

And so forth. Not Power Gaming. Rule Lawyering, maybe. Perhaps. Alright I do rule lawyer a lot, but the tricks in the first post is 0 rule lawyering. Everything is used as-is.

[tyckspoon]

And so forth. Not Power Gaming. Rule Lawyering, maybe. Perhaps. Alright I do rule lawyer a lot, but the tricks in the first post is 0 rule lawyering. Everything is used as-is.

One issue I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned yet - you don't get a second sigil and thus don't have the combo word as a 1st level Illumian. The second sigil is acquired at level 2.

[RoboEmperor]

One issue I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned yet - you don't get a second sigil and thus don't have the combo word as a 1st level Illumian. The second sigil is acquired at level 2.

RIGHT! ARGH! I KEEP FORGETTING THAT!

Damn it damn it damn it damn it damn it. I guess I need to go Human if I want that 1st level zombie. But I need Illumian for Persistent Spell in my feat starved build.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Illumians don't get both words at 1st level.

[tadkins]

My Portfolio is Minionmancy
My Alignment is True Neutral, because I don't give a damn about anything other than minionmancy. Necromancy and Fiends are involved so i'm not good, but at the same time i fight evil and avoid harming good so i'm not evil.
My Code is, if there is a job to be done, DON'T DO IT. Instead, make something that can do a better job than you and have it do it for you.
My domains encompasses all domains that assist minionmancy. Demonic, Dragon Below, Summoning, Envy, Charm, etc. etc.. If a domain lets you minionmancy it's covered by me.


I'm sold. I'll be your cleric. xD



Power Gaming is "I want to play a sorcerer, but wizards are so much better so screw that I will play wizards."


Is that always the case though? If I wanted to play a pew-pew blasty type (an archetype I actually do like, sometimes it's mentally tiring playing control and turning every battle into a chess game) I was always under the impression that I'd be better off with a sorcerer than a wizard. I've heard "mailman sorcerer" but never "mailman wizard".

[RoboEmperor]

Is that always the case though? If I wanted to play a pew-pew blasty type (an archetype I actually do like, sometimes it's mentally tiring playing control and turning every battle into a chess game) I was always under the impression that I'd be better off with a sorcerer than a wizard. I've heard "mailman sorcerer" but never "mailman wizard".

Wizard cannot beat Sorcerer's blasting. Sorcerer is king here. But there are better shenanigans than blasting

For example, my Wizard would use Wish to create a Max HD Hellfire Golem which is 100% immune to all spell and supernatural effects INCLUDING orb spells, and when built correctly can deal 360+ force damage in a round with a gloves of endless javelins, and this is an epic creature so it will have epic feats like perfect two weapon fighting, distant shot, far shot, and uncanny accuracy which makes it have an infinite range and perfect accuracy and with the right build it will cost the wizard only 25,000xp to create this monstrosity that can curb stomp every single low epic monster in the game.

I mean sure, 360 damage is nothing compared to 800 damage, but this creature is immune to all spell and supernatural abilities, NEVER runs out of resources, can literally fire all day long, and has infinitely longer range so in the end, this shenanigan is superior to mailman therefore wizard > sorcerer. And this is just one shenanigan, and other wizard experts will say what I've done here is suboptimal as well.

[Helluin]

Sorcerer is king here.

Why am I getting PTSD...

[Florian]

why am i getting ptsd...

new combo xiii !!!!

[tadkins]

Wizard cannot beat Sorcerer's blasting. Sorcerer is king here. But there are better shenanigans than blasting


Eh, depends on what you're going for honestly. Blasting is certain an effective and viable path. There are better shenanigans, perhaps, but you have to know those shenanigans. I personally like the sorcerer class because it lets me be a bit more single-minded and focused on a certain tactic. There's also the benefit of playing a CHA class instead of an INT class. You don't have to try to pretend to be a genius. Personally I just don't think I'm a smart enough person to properly portray a wizard in roleplay. I tried once, accidently went about things in a dumb way, and felt very foolish.

I just wanna shoot things and teleport around. I can have plenty of fun just doing that. xD

[Oblivionsmurf]

5. Dismiss the Spell. You return and Magic Circle's Dimensional Anchor prevents the creature's from returning from whence it came.

I don't think this step is possible.

The spell description provides:


When you dismiss the spell, or when the creature is slain, you appear in the creature’s location, and it is returned to its home plane.

That is, you appear in exactly the same location that the creature was in. The Rules Compendium provides:


A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell can’t appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it. The creature or object must appear within the spell’s range, but it doesn’t have to remain within the range.

Separately to the above, if you interpret Dimensional Anchor as preventing the creature from returning when the spell is dismissed, presumably that interpretation also applies to Planar Binding; i.e., even if you set a discrete (one round) task to a creature called by Planar Binding, that unfortunate creature will be forced to wait out the duration of the Dimensional Anchor rather than being able to return as soon as the task is completed (as provided for in the Planar Binding spell description).

[Drezius]

Why am I getting PTSD...

after reading the topic about planar binding, and being a Brazilian, I must say he is back.

[Anthrowhale]

It's also important to remember the command undead limits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#turnOrRebukeUndead) which deeply cut into the 'army' aspect.

At any one time, the cleric may command any number of undead whose total Hit Dice do not exceed his level.
Overall, being able to reuse an existing minion or enemy as undead seems like more of an augmentation than a primary strategy.

[Goaty14]

My Portfolio is Minionmancy
My Alignment is True Neutral, because I don't give a damn about anything other than minionmancy. Necromancy and Fiends are involved so i'm not good, but at the same time i fight evil and avoid harming good so i'm not evil.
My Code is, if there is a job to be done, DON'T DO IT. Instead, make something that can do a better job than you and have it do it for you.
My domains encompasses all domains that assist minionmancy. Demonic, Dragon Below, Summoning, Envy, Charm, etc. etc.. If a domain lets you minionmancy it's covered by me.

What is your Deific Name, O' holy one? :smallwink:

[RoboEmperor]

Eh, depends on what you're going for honestly. Blasting is certain an effective and viable path. There are better shenanigans, perhaps, but you have to know those shenanigans. I personally like the sorcerer class because it lets me be a bit more single-minded and focused on a certain tactic. There's also the benefit of playing a CHA class instead of an INT class. You don't have to try to pretend to be a genius. Personally I just don't think I'm a smart enough person to properly portray a wizard in roleplay. I tried once, accidently went about things in a dumb way, and felt very foolish.

I just wanna shoot things and teleport around. I can have plenty of fun just doing that. xD

I like sorcerers more than wizards. I like their fluff more, and I like the fact that they're specialized. The sorcerer will do that one thing better than wizards on the account of more spell slots and whatnot and I like being unable to do everything, but ultimately, games rarely get to levels 17+ so the name of the game is getting your shtick online as early as possible, not ultimate level 20 power and my sorcerers are always 2 levels behind wizards and clerics which is unacceptable which is why I end up not going sorcerers.


I don't think this step is possible.

Appearing on top of the creature is not 0ft?


It's also important to remember the command undead limits (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#turnOrRebukeUndead) which deeply cut into the 'army' aspect.

Overall, being able to reuse an existing minion or enemy as undead seems like more of an augmentation than a primary strategy.

Fell Animate shares restrictions as Animate Dead, not Rebuke Undead. Army is an exaggeration. At level 1 you can only raise 1hd creatures because zombies double their hd and you can't create zombies whose hd is more than twice your caster level. So a maximum of 2 zombies.

A 2hd zombie is more powerful than a 1st level mundane so I think it is a primary strategy.


What is your Deific Name, O' holy one? :smallwink:

RoboEmperor. I mean, deity names are like Mask or Ao, so I don't see why RoboEmperor wouldn't work.

[Anthrowhale]

Fell Animate shares restrictions as Animate Dead, not Rebuke Undead. Army is an exaggeration. At level 1 you can only raise 1hd creatures because zombies double their hd and you can't create zombies whose hd is more than twice your caster level. So a maximum of 2 zombies.

A 2hd zombie is more powerful than a 1st level mundane so I think it is a primary strategy.

Animate Dead instead of Rebuke Undead helps quite a bit, and it's cumulative with Rebuke Undead. Using CR as a guide and computing encounter level, you get:

Clericencounter level
11/2, 1/2, 1/4 ~= 1
21, 1, 1/2 ~= 3
32, 2, 1/2 ~= 4
43, 3, 1 ~= 5
53, 3, 1, 1 ~= 6
64, 4, 2 ~= 7
74, 4, 1, 2 ~= 7
85, 5, 3 ~= 8
96, 6, 3 ~= 8
106, 6, 1, 3 ~= 9

So, it's good as a primary approach up to maybe level 8 then it starts falling off.

[RoboEmperor]

Animate Dead instead of Rebuke Undead helps quite a bit, and it's cumulative with Rebuke Undead. Using CR as a guide and computing encounter level, you get:

Clericencounter level
11/2, 1/2, 1/4 ~= 1
21, 1, 1/2 ~= 3
32, 2, 1/2 ~= 4
43, 3, 1 ~= 5
53, 3, 1, 1 ~= 6
64, 4, 2 ~= 7
74, 4, 1, 2 ~= 7
85, 5, 3 ~= 8
96, 6, 3 ~= 8
106, 6, 1, 3 ~= 9

So, it's good as a primary approach up to maybe level 8 then it starts falling off.

Which is when Lesser Planar Binding comes online. And a few free flanking (and possibly flying) meat sponges are never bad at any level.

[Yogibear41]

My Portfolio is Minionmancy
My Alignment is True Neutral Chaotic Evil, because I don't give a damn about anything other than minionmancy. Necromancy and Fiends are involved so i'm not good, but at the same time i fight evil and avoid harming good so I Think i'm not evil.
My Code is, if there is a job to be done, DON'T DO IT. Instead, make something that can do a better job than you and have it do it for you.
My domains encompasses all domains that assist minionmancy. Demonic, Dragon Below, Summoning, Envy, Charm, etc. etc.. If a domain lets you minionmancy it's covered by me.



Silly CE Murder hobo player characters always rationalizing their actions. :smallsmile:

[Florian]

Silly CE Murder hobo player characters always rationalizing their actions. :smallsmile:

Oh, I liked your pre-edit version better. I wanted to answer:

You know what is priceless? The look on their face once they get cornered by a party of heroes and the Paladins Smite hits astonishingly hard and true. Rationalize this, villain.

[magicalmagicman]

It always cracks me up to see something like... this.

Magic Circle and Dimensional Anchor for Planar Exchange? Are you serious? This is just... wow!

I'll be your cleric too!

[Jack_Simth]

I don't think this step is possible.

The spell description provides:


When you dismiss the spell, or when the creature is slain, you appear in the creature’s location, and it is returned to its home plane.

That is, you appear in exactly the same location that the creature was in. The Rules Compendium provides:


A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell can’t appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it. The creature or object must appear within the spell’s range, but it doesn’t have to remain within the range.

Separately to the above, if you interpret Dimensional Anchor as preventing the creature from returning when the spell is dismissed, presumably that interpretation also applies to Planar Binding; i.e., even if you set a discrete (one round) task to a creature called by Planar Binding, that unfortunate creature will be forced to wait out the duration of the Dimensional Anchor rather than being able to return as soon as the task is completed (as provided for in the Planar Binding spell description).

Or worse: The attempt to return is a one-shot, and is prevented by the Dimensional Anchor. Leaving the caster trapped in stasis, unable to act, able only to control the non-actions of a now-corpse....

[Sleven]

I guess I don't see the point of Lesser Planar Exchange. You can animate a skeleton or zombie version of any creature with a skeletal structure. That means most of the typical outsiders Lesser Planar Binding can bring are valid targets as well. I'd rather wait till level 9 and use Lesser Dragon Ally. You're killing it anyways, so you might as well take the risk for something useful.

[Selion]

I'd never play this way, but I'm actually beginning to enjoy this kind of posts.
Would you try designing something similar for Pathfinder? It has less books and it is usually less abusable, consider it a challenge.

[Florian]

I'd never play this way, but I'm actually beginning to enjoy this kind of posts.
Would you try designing something similar for Pathfinder? It has less books and it is usually less abusable, consider it a challenge.

The following class/archetype combinations come equipped with scaling or semi-scaling undead minion(s) as part of their framework: Cleric (Undead Lord), Investigator (Gravedigger), Occultist, Wizard (Undead Master).

Please note that you can retrain class features, so swapping the bond from minion to object (Dark Skull) at 5th is mandatory, once Animate Minor Dead comes online. Also note that the Necromancy Implement doesn't need corpses, allowing you to create undead "out of thin air". Whenever possible, grab one of the Leadership-type of feats (Apprentice kicks in earlier) and get either an Investigator (Gravedigger) or Occultist with the Strong Implement Link feat as your Cohort.

Broadly speaking, when starting with a full caster, always aim towards entering the Diabolist PrC ASAP, meaning at 8th when using the updated version, so you can replace boring undead with a ramped up option to call and bind outsiders.

[RoboEmperor]

I guess I don't see the point of Lesser Planar Exchange. You can animate a skeleton or zombie version of any creature with a skeletal structure. That means most of the typical outsiders Lesser Planar Binding can bring are valid targets as well. I'd rather wait till level 9 and use Lesser Dragon Ally. You're killing it anyways, so you might as well take the risk for something useful.

There is literally no downside of using Lesser Planar Exchange at level 7 for free expendable reliable decent zombies while "waiting" for Lesser Planar Binding. It's not like clerics have two choose two spells per level and pay gp to get more spells.


I'd never play this way, but I'm actually beginning to enjoy this kind of posts.
Would you try designing something similar for Pathfinder? It has less books and it is usually less abusable, consider it a challenge.

Sorry, I have 0 interest in pathfinder.

[Blue Jay]

I'm not entirely sure I understand how calling spells work, but the text for the spell descriptor says a called creature has a "one-time ability" to return to its home plane.

For planar exchange, the return ability occurs automatically when the spell ends. But, if dimensional anchor blocks the return, does that mean the called creature's one-time ability to return home has been wasted? Or does it just delay the creature's return until the anchor effect wears off?

Also, lesser planar exchange says, when the called creature dies, you return to the last space it occupied. But, since a dead called creature doesn't automatically return home, isn't its dead body still occupying the space you're supposed to appear in?

[RoboEmperor]

You can share space with an unconscious creature.

If the creature is conscious then when you teleport back you are in an illegal space.


Accidentally Ending Movement in an Illegal Space

Sometimes a character ends its movement while moving through a space where it’s not allowed to stop. When that happens, put your miniature in the last legal position you occupied, or the closest legal position, if there’s a legal position that’s closer.

If the spell penalizes illegal spaces it says so


Dimension Door
...
If you arrive in a place that is already occupied by a solid body, you and each creature traveling with you take 1d6 points of damage and are shunted to a random open space on a suitable surface within 100 feet of the intended location.

If there is no free space within 100 feet, you and each creature traveling with you take an additional 2d6 points of damage and are shunted to a free space within 1,000 feet. If there is no free space within 1,000 feet, you and each creature travelling with you take an additional 4d6 points of damage and the spell simply fails.

If there are no rules you go with the general rules. You don't create new rules.

As for teleport, if a creature who casts Greater Teleport is stopped with Dimensional Anchor, is the spell delayed until the Dimensional Anchor wears off?

[Blue Jay]

You can share space with an unconscious creature.

If the creature is conscious then when you teleport back you are in an illegal space.



If the spell penalizes illegal spaces it says so



If there are no rules you go with the general rules. You don't create new rules.

Oh, I know that rule: it's just, the way it's written, it sounds like they were assuming the creature wouldn't be there when you arrived. "The space last occupied" implies that it would no longer be there.

I guess it does mention at the end of the entry that a slain creature returns to its home plane, so maybe I was just being too anal about grammar early in the morning.

Of course, if the return is only delayed until the end of the dimensional anchor effect, then you'd need to keep casting dimensional anchor to keep the zombie.

But, if the return is wasted by dimensional anchor, then the creature is effectively trapped on the Material Plane. I like the story potential for that, so if this is how it works, I might use that for an adventure hook sometime.

[RoboEmperor]

But, if the return is wasted by dimensional anchor, then the creature is effectively trapped on the Material Plane. I like the story potential for that, so if this is how it works, I might use that for an adventure hook sometime.

Planar Binding is better for that since some outsiders have Dimensional Anchor and can cast it on themselves on purpose.

[Selion]

But, if the return is wasted by dimensional anchor, then the creature is effectively trapped on the Material Plane. I like the story potential for that, so if this is how it works, I might use that for an adventure hook sometime.

Yep, I agree, this could make a wonderful villain, collecting animated corpses of life forms from other planes to fit her twisted esthetical taste

[Mato]

Cleric of Mystra. Race is irrelevant, take fell animate as your first level feat.

*Ahem*
Level 1
1. Cast fell animate light of lunia in a temple of Mystra on a convicted prisoner.
2. Use the second beam on a second convicted prisoner.

Level 7
1. Using (great) anyspell from your spell domain cast any Halaster's fetch you have access to.
2. Continue to apply fell animate for free and kill the summoned creatures.
3. Consider planar ally or lesser planar binding for more options.

Result: Free *deep breath* undead celestial dogs, owls, giant fire beetles, porpoises, badgers, monkeys, giant bees, giant bombardier beetles, riding dogs, eagles and fiendish dire rats, ravens, small/medium/large monstrous centipedes, small/medium monstrous scorpions/spiders, hawks, octopi, small/medium vipers, sharks, wolfs and normal Lemures for life!1!1!

Worship me for I am just reposting someone else's idea from ten years ago, but it's slightly better.
Then realize you posted this on GitP and at least the community will debate if animate dead works on outsider because they think the corpses go poof.

[magicalmagicman]

Cleric of Mystra. Race is irrelevant, take fell animate as your first level feat.

*Ahem*
Level 1
1. Cast fell animate light of lunia in a temple of Mystra on a convicted prisoner.
2. Use the second beam on a second convicted prisoner.

Level 7
1. Using (great) anyspell from your spell domain cast any Halaster's fetch you have access to.
2. Continue to apply fell animate for free and kill the summoned creatures.
3. Consider planar ally or lesser planar binding for more options.

Result: Free *deep breath* undead celestial dogs, owls, giant fire beetles, porpoises, badgers, monkeys, giant bees, giant bombardier beetles, riding dogs, eagles and fiendish dire rats, ravens, small/medium/large monstrous centipedes, small/medium monstrous scorpions/spiders, hawks, octopi, small/medium vipers, sharks, wolfs and normal Lemures for life!1!1!

Worship me for I am just reposting someone else's idea from ten years ago, but it's slightly better.
Then realize you posted this on GitP and at least the community will debate if animate dead works on outsider because they think the corpses go poof.

It's not slightly better it's significantly better. For one it's not location or setting specific. Another is that it's usable in combat. Thirdly it requires no preparation. No prisoner nonsense. And halaster's fetch results are worthless zombies while lesser planar exchange creates combat capable zombies. It's like comparing a sling shot to a rifle.

[BWR]

it's not location or setting specific.

Um, you missed the bits about Mystra and Halaster...

[Segev]

*Raises hand*

...

*orders undead hand to go do something more useful than draw attention to itself*

*ahem* RoboEmperor, what if we don't want to be clerics? How might wizards, who actually have "Necromancer" as a subclass, take full advantage of this Fell Animate trick?

My first answer would be to go back to the Illumian route and use a coup de grace with fell animate magic missile, but that still leaves us in need of a way to get turn/rebuke attempts. Do you have preferred metamagic reducers for us? Or a good necromancy spell to which to apply Fell Animate so we can get a small horde of slaymates to help us out?

[RoboEmperor]

*Raises hand*

...

*orders undead hand to go do something more useful than draw attention to itself*

*ahem* RoboEmperor, what if we don't want to be clerics? How might wizards, who actually have "Necromancer" as a subclass, take full advantage of this Fell Animate trick?

My first answer would be to go back to the Illumian route and use a coup de grace with fell animate magic missile, but that still leaves us in need of a way to get turn/rebuke attempts. Do you have preferred metamagic reducers for us? Or a good necromancy spell to which to apply Fell Animate so we can get a small horde of slaymates to help us out?

Human Specialist Wizard with Fell Animate and Metamagic School Focus.
"Technically the feat does not forbid you from applying the feat to the same spell three times"

Has to be Specialist Wizard because if you're not, then you need a Flaw to grab Spell Focus.

No lesser planar exchange though, that's cleric exclusive. You gotta wait until lesser planar binding for corpses.

edit:You can only Coup de Grace with touch spells. There are cantrips and Lesser Orb of X you can Coup de Grace with.

edit2:Slight correction.

[Segev]

Human Necromancy Specialist Wizard with Fell Animate and Metamagic School Focus.
"Technically the feat does not forbid you from applying the feat to the same spell three times"

Has to be Necromancy Specialist because if you're not, then you need a Flaw to grab Spell Focus:Necromancy.

No lesser planar exchange though, that's cleric exclusive. You gotta wait until lesser planar binding for corpses.

edit:You can only Coup de Grace with touch spells. There are cantrips and Lesser Orb of X you can Coup de Grace with.

So you're recommending 3 copies of Metamagic School Focus for Fell Animate? Am I parsing that right?

[RoboEmperor]

So you're recommending 3 copies of Metamagic School Focus for Fell Animate? Am I parsing that right?

No.

BTW, slight correction (I kinda rushed this. Sorry!)


Prerequisite
Spell Focus (chosen school) or specialist wizard in chosen school

Benefit
Choose a school of magic for which you have the Spell Focus feat, or the school in which you have specialized. Three times per day, you can reduce by one level the cost of a metamagic feat applied to a spell of the chosen school. If you prepare spells, you can have only up to three such reduced cost spells prepared at any time.

1. Be a Specialist Wizard. Lets say Necromancy.
2. Be a Human
3. Grab Fell Animate and Metamagic School Focus: Your school of choice. In this case Necromancy.
4. Apply Fell Animate to Chill Touch making its effect spell level 4.
5. Apply Metamagic School Focus:Necromancy on Fell Animate Chill Touch all three times to reduce it back to 1.

If you are a Conjuration Specialist Wizard do this with Lesser Orb of X
If you are a Evocation Specialist Wizard do this to Shocking Grasp.

[Anthrowhale]

No.
I'd interpret the '1 level reduction' as applying to the full cost of Fell Animate (3 levels) since there is no "Fell Animate with Metamagic School Focus applied" metamagic feat.

If you allow access to Dragon#325 then Easy Metamagic + Versatile Spellcaster + Fell Animate applied to a cantrip (Inflict minor wound? Ray of Frost? Orb of Acid? Electric Jolt?) would be castable by a Human Generic Spellcaster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#spellcaster) at level 1.

Eliminating access to Dragon and UA makes it harder. A specialist wizard using Metamagic School Focus once could operate off a cantrip at level 3 via MM School Focus + Fell Animate. A nonspecialist human wizard could do the same thing, as could a Wu Jen.

A Death Master or Dread Necromancer Illumian could do it at level 2 via Rebuke Undead.

[magicalmagicman]

Um, you missed the bits about Mystra and Halaster...

I was saying RoboEmperor's method was much better not mato's.

[Psyren]

after reading the topic about planar binding, and being a Brazilian, I must say he is back.

Even if that's true though, this is at least a discussion, so it's far better.



Sorry, I have 0 interest in pathfinder.

Thank god for that...

[magicalmagicman]

Even if that's true though, this is at least a discussion, so it's far better.



Thank god for that...

You got a problem with someone sharing their tricks with everyone?

[Jack_Simth]

You got a problem with someone sharing their tricks with everyone?
As I understand it, no. Psyren is suggesting that what's going on here is multiple orders of magnitude better than a previously multi-banned poster who was basically screaming (or at least, as close as you can get in this medium) at everyone that his build was superior to everything else. And just screaming more when folks poked holes in what little of the builds he actually showed (e.g., trading out a familiar for three different ACF's, each of which replaces the ability to acquire a familiar, which means they're mutually exclusive).

[Sleven]

Cleric of Mystra. [...] in a temple of Mystra [...]

Clearly the superior option. But...

Do clerics of Mystra even have to know the metamagic feat in question to use it at a holy site/temple? I thought it was any one metamagic feat applied for free, regardless of knowledge. If so, I just saved you a feat. Maybe I should be worshiped too for reading the rules ;)

[Psyren]

You got a problem with someone sharing their tricks with everyone?

Not at all, I'm just very happy that said "tricks" aren't applicable to any of the games I actually play.

(Also, what Jack_Simth said.)

[Mato]

I was saying RoboEmperor's method was much better not mato's.Oh I don't know about that. We're up to four posts about one guy who thinks planar exchange provides better minion choices than planar binding, in the middle of picking arguments with everyone, is trying to say it's not a better option because it uses Forgotten Realms content. Meanwhile the other option is up to 48 posts of several people trying to correct and out do the other method.


Do clerics of Mystra even have to know the metamagic feat in question to use it at a holy site/temple?I would certainly pat you on the back if you read the rules and then drew conclusions from them.

But using argumentum ad ignorantiam to claim something the text doesn't even discuss for support, while ignoring all contrary evidence like the rule compendium's entry that metamagic feats only work for divine spellcasters if they actually take the feat, is not the kind of rule support I would ever want to use as my foundation for an argument. But this is GitP, they encourage that sort of behavior so I feel the community standards would allow you to if you wanted.

[Komatik]

Sorcerer is king here.

Why am I getting PTSD...

Why'd you have to remind me :smalleek:



Race: Human
Class: Cleric1

Feats
1 Fell Animate
H Divine Metamagic: Fell Animate

Level 1
1. Prepare an Inflict Light Wounds spell
2. Find a dying creature (you can use your party to make one)
3. a. Cast Inflict Light Wounds
b. Apply Fell Animate to Inflict Light Wounds as a Free Action using Divine Metamagic:Fell Animate
c. Hold the charge and move next to the dying creature.
4. Next round Coup De Grace it with the Inflict Light Wounds as a full-round action
Result: FREE ZOMBIE ARMY AT LEVEL 1!!!

:smalleek::smallamused::smallbiggrin:


My Portfolio is Minionmancy
My Alignment is True Neutral, because I don't give a damn about anything other than minionmancy. Necromancy and Fiends are involved so i'm not good, but at the same time i fight evil and avoid harming good so i'm not evil.
My Code is, if there is a job to be done, DON'T DO IT. Instead, make something that can do a better job than you and have it do it for you.
My domains encompasses all domains that assist minionmancy. Demonic, Dragon Below, Summoning, Envy, Charm, etc. etc.. If a domain lets you minionmancy it's covered by me.

Worship acquired.

[magicalmagicman]

Not at all, I'm just very happy that said "tricks" aren't applicable to any of the games I actually play.

(Also, what Jack_Simth said.)

What's wrong with the tricks? I've never seen zombies break the game.


Oh I don't know about that. We're up to four posts about one guy who thinks planar exchange provides better minion choices than planar binding, in the middle of picking arguments with everyone, is trying to say it's not a better option because it uses Forgotten Realms content. Meanwhile the other option is up to 48 posts of several people trying to correct and out do the other method.

It's irrelevant whether lesser planar binding provides better choices than lesser planar exchange because lesser planar exchange is a 4th level spell while lesser planar binding is 5th. And which choices are better than lesser planar exchange? I'm finding trouble finding anything better than a zombie brown bear with its 2d6+9 bite attack or a zombie griffon with flight.

Also compare telling your DM "I cast Divine Metamagic Fell Animate Inflict Light Wounds" with "There's a temple of Mystra in our starting town and we stabilize a goblin, knock him senseless with nonlethal damage, drag him out of the dungeon all the way back to town to said temple and then cause Fell Animate Light of Lunia"

[Sleven]

I would certainly pat you on the back if you read the rules and then drew conclusions from them.

But using argumentum ad ignorantiam to claim something the text doesn't even discuss for support, while ignoring all contrary evidence like the rule compendium's entry that metamagic feats only work for divine spellcasters if they actually take the feat, is not the kind of rule support I would ever want to use as my foundation for an argument. But this is GitP, they encourage that sort of behavior so I feel the community standards would allow you to if you wanted.

What's with the snippy sophomoric logic, linguistics, etc. comments from people on GitP today?


Sites dedicated to the deity are enhanced by the Weave to augment spellcasting power. Any spell cast within by her clerics can benefit from one metamagic feat without needing to take up a higher-level spell slot; the benefit ends if the recipient leaves the location of the temple.

Sounds pretty straightforward to me.

Would be great to see where the Rules Compendium makes a statement regarding metamagic that directly applies to this situation. It's not like I'm above being corrected.

[Psyren]

What's wrong with the tricks? I've never seen zombies break the game.

Compared to stuff like Pun-Pun, probably nothing. But I'd rather the game just balance that sort of thing by design rather than by hunting for/ cramming all these hoops together to jump through.

Pathfinder for instance just gives you a low-level "make a zombie" spell. It's 2nd level, but that's still better than Animate Dead, and frankly I'm perfectly okay not having a zombie at level 1.

[Anthrowhale]

Compared to stuff like Pun-Pun, probably nothing.
As per this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=23529963&postcount=24) the zombies don't seem particularly unbalanced. In the best case, they provide power only modestly beyond what CR would suggest. In a typical case, I expect things to be reasonable because you don't always have the best zombie fodder available, you often can't take them into town, and they are very slow. At level 1 an elf with the arrows that do slashing damage can kill a large number of zombies by steadily walking away from them and shooting.

But I'd rather the game just balance that sort of thing by design rather than by hunting for/ cramming all these hoops together to jump through.
This seems reasonable for a game design.

[Segev]

I'm perfectly okay not having a zombie at level 1.

While that's not an unreasonable position, especially as a personal preference, I will point out that one of the complaints about several of the PrCs of 3.5 and a few subclasses in 5e tend to be that you can't actually play your concept at level 1, even when the concept has little to do with raw power and more to do with theme.

If your goal is to play a minionmancer of the classic undead-controlling archetype, playing a poser in black robes who might be mistaken for just some heavy metal fan for 2-6 levels before you can even get started (depending on what spell set the DM lets you use) is a little frustrating. That's why things like the Unearthed Arcana familiar-ACP for an undead minion at level 1 exist.

And the reasoning is fairly simple: imagine if you were told that, in order to play a big strong warrior, you had to wait 2 levels before you could get proficiency with armor and swords, and had to spend the first few as a guy in homespun cloth wielding a bow. Sure, the bow might be viable at the levels you're forced to use it, and you might be able to build fun-to-play characters around it, but you wanted to play a dive-in-and-mix-it-up armored warrior.

Of course the game doesn't force this on you; playing a melee fighter is a concept it's designed to support from the get-go. Playing a minionmancer clearly isn't, though it's such a conceptual core if one wishes to run with it that it probably should have been, or it shouldn't have been a player option in the first place.

Things like the level 2 spell for lesser animation are a good step. I'd appreciate level 1 options, even if they don't let you do anything terribly impressive, that at least let you play at it. (And sticking a weakened version of summon monster I into the Conjuration list that happens to give temporary skeletal minions doesn't count.)

[magicalmagicman]

Compared to stuff like Pun-Pun, probably nothing. But I'd rather the game just balance that sort of thing by design rather than by hunting for/ cramming all these hoops together to jump through.

Pathfinder for instance just gives you a low-level "make a zombie" spell. It's 2nd level, but that's still better than Animate Dead, and frankly I'm perfectly okay not having a zombie at level 1.

But this isn't a hoop though. The Metamagic School Focus is a hoop. The Mystra thing is a hoop. But this, this is normal. metamagic feat with no prerequisites and a DMM of it. Two feats, no class features, no special stuff, no different than grabbing spell focus:conjuration and augment summoning at level 1.

And what Segev said.

[Psyren]

While that's not an unreasonable position, especially as a personal preference, I will point out that one of the complaints about several of the PrCs of 3.5 and a few subclasses in 5e tend to be that you can't actually play your concept at level 1, even when the concept has little to do with raw power and more to do with theme.

The problem I have is that this is both. Maybe a single weak zombie or skeleton backing you up at level 1 is fine. 4HD worth of indefinite, cost-free, fully disposable/replaceable minions is not something a level 1 character is really expected to have though, and it can be even more than that if the character has rebuke attempts handy. And that's just the ones you can control - in some situations, you can simply raise a bunch, intentionally exceed your pool and then leave the area (locking the door), returning after the uncontrolled undead and your targets have mostly slaughtered each other to mop up the remainder. This could trivialize a number of encounters.

The proposed balancing factors are non-starters too. Walking into town with a zombie may be socially frowned on, but you lose nothing by just commanding it to stay outside town for as long as you need it to; it has no duration and it's not like it needs food or shelter. And while a city might have the infrastructure to threaten a minionmancer, the villages and thorps many low-level adventurers find themselves in often don't - when you roll into a hamlet with a zombie ogre, who's going to tell you that you can't, the magistrate? Similarly, the amazing kiting elf scenario ignores the fact that he's spending all his actions trying to deal with one beatstick, leaving the necromancer free to do, well, anything else - a nice Command spell to hold him still so your 4HD zombie(s) can catch up and splatter him for instance.

Bottom line is that Fell Animate isn't balanced, DMM definitely isn't balanced, and as a result I'm happy that they are not expectations in the games I play in. Hopefully that clears up my position, regardless of whether or not you agree.

[Segev]

Bottom line is that Fell Animate isn't balanced, DMM definitely isn't balanced, and as a result I'm happy that they are not expectations in the games I play in. Hopefully that clears up my position, regardless of whether or not you agree.

Sure. But there's a difference between, "This approach to achieving having a minion at level 1 is not balanced," and "Having a minion at level 1 is not balanced." The latter is more the apparent, and I think denotative, meaning of what you initially said, though the post I'm quoting cleared up what you meant, at least for me, just fine, so I have no argument with that point. (Or, at least, I have no problem with you considering it unbalanced, because it's certainly questionable.)

[Anthrowhale]

The problem I have is that this is both. Maybe a single weak zombie or skeleton backing you up at level 1 is fine. 4HD worth of indefinite, cost-free, fully disposable/replaceable minions is not something a level 1 character is really expected to have though, and it can be even more than that if the character has rebuke attempts handy. And that's just the ones you can control - in some situations, you can simply raise a bunch, intentionally exceed your pool and then leave the area (locking the door), returning after the uncontrolled undead and your targets have mostly slaughtered each other to mop up the remainder. This could trivialize a number of encounters.

The proposed balancing factors are non-starters too. Walking into town with a zombie may be socially frowned on, but you lose nothing by just commanding it to stay outside town for as long as you need it to; it has no duration and it's not like it needs food or shelter. And while a city might have the infrastructure to threaten a minionmancer, the villages and thorps many low-level adventurers find themselves in often don't - when you roll into a hamlet with a zombie ogre, who's going to tell you that you can't, the magistrate? Similarly, the amazing kiting elf scenario ignores the fact that he's spending all his actions trying to deal with one beatstick, leaving the necromancer free to do, well, anything else - a nice Command spell to hold him still so your 4HD zombie(s) can catch up and splatter him for instance.

Bottom line is that Fell Animate isn't balanced, DMM definitely isn't balanced, and as a result I'm happy that they are not expectations in the games I play in. Hopefully that clears up my position, regardless of whether or not you agree.

It still seems like you are overstating the power of zombies a bit.

A Halfling Druid with a couple riding dogs via Wild Cohort seems better at level 1. You'd be much more maneuverable while still retaining a solid melee backup.
Fell Animate cannot produce a Zombie Ogre at level 1 since it would have 8HD. A zombie Orc (2HD) is about the high end of what you might get at level 1. Obviously, you would be subject to the variance of what's available so it might just be a zombie goblin or zombie kobold.
Paying attention to HD seems like the wrong concept here because zombies are the quintessential stupid meatshield. CR seems like a better measure as it takes into account zombie drawbacks.
I see zombies as archery meat for any hamlet with an L1 warrior and a bit of open space. Obviously, the availability of an L1 warrior will vary from world to world, but it seems reasonably common.
Creating a new zombie could be done about once/day with a minimal investment in Cha or 2/day with a maximal investment in Cha at L1. That's fairly comparable to finding a new animal cohort.
Command has range:close, so if you want to use it against an archer who's kiting your zombies, you need to get closer than your zombies. Obviously, the necromancer would be the priority target.


Thinking about things in comparison, maybe a plain Druid (with a single animal cohort) seems comparable to me. The zombies would have more hit points and more attacks in aggregate, but they would be significantly slower and suffer from social stigma issues in most civilization settings. So, is a plain druid (no feats) to powerful at level 1? It's certainly a strong choice for a level 1 character.

[Segev]

While it doesn't get you the joy of picking out your source corpse, a reasonable amount of info gathering and research can get you a good location to find some free-range mindless undead. Take Precocious Apprentice: command undead, and go capture a minion of any HD you like.

You have to renew daily, but that's not a huge deal.

If you're really ambitious, you can go for Chain Spell and get yourself a trio of Slaymates. This will have to wait for level 2, mind, if you're relying on command undead to "charm" them into working for you, but if you're planning on fighting other minionmancers for control, you'll want a reasonable Cha anyway, so you can try just plain diplomacy on the cute little corpses. By level 2, however, chain command undead hits 3 targets per casting, and lasts 2 days. That's enough to control your 3 Slaymates and 3 brute-boxes.

And importantly, even at level 1, you can cast non-Chain command undead for a minion of your choice.

The trick is finding them.

[Psyren]

Sure. But there's a difference between, "This approach to achieving having a minion at level 1 is not balanced," and "Having a minion at level 1 is not balanced." The latter is more the apparent, and I think denotative, meaning of what you initially said, though the post I'm quoting cleared up what you meant, at least for me, just fine, so I have no argument with that point. (Or, at least, I have no problem with you considering it unbalanced, because it's certainly questionable.)

You yourself are making denotative differences here - there's a difference between "A minion at level 1" and "a zombie/skeleton at level 1" specifically. There's a reason they normally cost onyxes, a cost that Fell Animate gets to ignore completely. This is particularly notable when they get destroyed and you can just keep replacing them for zero cost.

[Mato]

What's with the snippy sophomoric logic, linguistics, etc. comments from people on GitP today?I occasionally and deliberately ingest American fast food to ensure a high level of saltiness.


Would be great to see where the Rules Compendium makes a statement regarding metamagic that directly applies to this situation. It's not like I'm above being corrected.I'm not sure what you mean. The DMG is clear that in order to do something then you have to have something that says you can. This is where you come up with the idea you can't attack unless you can take an attack action, how you can't use the empower spell feat without taking the feat, why you can't enter "Sleven" as your fortitude bonus to saves and use it for initiative checks, or how come your vehicle's fuel tank doesn't penalize your bardic knowledge checks to successfully grapple your foes.

Mystra's temples allow a spell to benefit from a metamagic feat without needing to take up a higher level slot, but according the rule compendium's spellcasting's spell results on page 136 says that modifications made by metamagic feats apply only to spells cast by the feat user. So unless you are trying to imply you don't have to take a feat to use it, I'm not sure what direction you are trying to go.


But this isn't a hoop though. The Metamagic School Focus is a hoop. The Mystra thing is a hoop. But this, this is normal. metamagic feat with no prerequisites and a DMM of it. Two feats, no class features, no special stuff, no different than grabbing spell focus:conjuration and augment summoning at level 1.Everything about the OP's post is a series of hoops. It requires three feats which is a hoop that requires flaws or a key race to jump through. It also requires even uses of turn undead which creates a requirement of eighteen charisma at level one. It requires enough spell slots to pull it off suggesting a high wisdom score coupled with a certain class. And it requires the target to be rendered helpless before hand and for a spell that deals 1d8+1 damage, that's 5 points on average, to take a creature from full hp to -10. And it will later assume you can use planar exchange with magic circle (no rule text supports this) and that dimensional anchor prevents a summoned creature's corpse from returning (no rule text supports this) even through it doesn't even interact with objects such as corpses in the first place and all the other problems other people in this thread have noted.

And fyi, metamagic spell focus is a feat just like divine metamagic.
Would you like a link to ebay so you can read these rule books we keep discussing?

[magicalmagicman]

Everything about the OP's post is a series of hoops. It requires three feats which is a hoop that requires flaws or a key race to jump through.


Feats
1 Fell Animate
H Divine Metamagic: Fell Animate

Where is this third feat?


It also requires even uses of turn undead which creates a requirement of eighteen charisma at level one.

Fell Animate is +3 so you only need 12 charisma. Did you forget clerics start with 3 turn attempts?


It requires enough spell slots to pull it off suggesting a high wisdom score coupled with a certain class. And it requires the target to be rendered helpless before hand and for a spell that deals 1d8+1 damage, that's 5 points on average, to take a creature from full hp to -10. And it will later assume you can use planar exchange with magic circle (no rule text supports this) and that dimensional anchor prevents a summoned creature's corpse from returning (no rule text supports this) even through it doesn't even interact with objects such as corpses in the first place and all the other problems other people in this thread have noted.

Coup De Grace requires a fort save of DC 10+damage dealt.


Would you like a link to ebay so you can read these rule books we keep discussing?

Ok so let's just put everything together.
You can't count thinking 2 is 3.
You don't even know that clerics start the game with 3 turn attempts by default.
You don't know that a CdG results in a virtually impassable fort save
And you're mouthing off to me? And telling me to buy a rule book you haven't read?

This is just hilarious. I'm putting you on my ignore list. There's no point in wasting time dealing with a blind illiterate **** who doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. Being salty when you're right is one thing but being a piece of **** when you're completely wrong about everything suggests you're a troll.

[Mato]

This is just hilarious. I'm putting you on my ignore list.And yet, you still bothered asking questions like you need my permission to do it. :smallamused:

[Jack_Simth]

And yet, you still bothered asking questions like you need my permission to do it. :smallamused:

In an observed discussion, it's a common rhetorical form.

[Blue Jay]

Mystra's temples allow a spell to benefit from a metamagic feat without needing to take up a higher level slot, but according the rule compendium's spellcasting's spell results on page 136 says that modifications made by metamagic feats apply only to spells cast by the feat user. So unless you are trying to imply you don't have to take a feat to use it, I'm not sure what direction you are trying to go.

Here's the full quote from Rules Compendium:


"The modifications made by metamagic feats apply only to spells cast directly by the feat user. A spellcaster can’t use a metamagic feat to alter a spell being cast from a wand, scroll, or other device."

This clearly isn't meant to be a rule about who has to own the feat that grants the metamagic effect: it's a very oblique reading that gets you to that conclusion.

But, also notice that the phrasing is "feat user," not "feat haver." There are options in the game that let you use a feat that you don't actually have, so a "feat user" doesn't necessarily have to have the feat: they just need a means of using the feat.


And it will later assume you can use planar exchange with magic circle (no rule text supports this)...

From the text for the magic circle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/magicCircleAgainstEvil.htm) spell:


"When focused inward, the spell binds a nongood called creature (such as those called by the lesser planar binding, planar binding, and greater planar binding spells)."

It's opened-ended about which effects can be used to call the creature: it gives the planar binding spells as examples, but not as an exhaustive list, and clearly indicates that they are not the only possibilities. So, all you need is a spell that calls a nongood creature.

From he text for lesser planar exchange:


"When you cast this spell, you call a celestial brown bear (MM 269), celestial griffon (MM 139), fiendish dire ape (MM 62), or fiendish tiger (MM 281), at your option, to your precise location."

Lesser planar exchange can call a nongood creature. So the requirement is met.

The rules text seems to support this quite well.


...and that dimensional anchor prevents a summoned creature's corpse from returning (no rule text supports this) even through it doesn't even interact with objects such as corpses in the first place and all the other problems other people in this thread have noted.

This one is a possible problem for RoboEmperor, because the lesser planar exchange spell does say this:

"When you dismiss the spell, or when the creature is slain, you appear in the creature's location, and it is returned to its home plane."

So, it's clear that the "return to home plane" effect does apply to the creature's corpse. But, dimensional anchor should block the creature's return, because that return is comparable to plane shift, which is one of the examples of types of travel dimensional anchor blocks. So, it's possible that lesser planar exchange will simply return the creature's body to its home plane once the dimensional anchor spell ends.

On the other hand, there is also this in the text for lesser planar exchange:

"If the called creature is slain, you take 2d6 points of damage, the spell ends, and you are returned to your origin plane in the space last occupied by the called creature..."

So, the spell will end before the dimensional anchor effect ends, which presumably means it won't be able to "try again" after dimensional anchor is gone. I'm not entirely sure about this, but I think the idea that the return effect of the spell will linger around until dimensional anchor has ended seems farfetched.

So I would argue that the rules text supports this, as well.

-----

I personally think RoboEmperor's idea works mechanically. I think it's cheesy, but since he's just trying to make zombies, I don't see much harm in it. As far as calling-spell cheese goes, this is pretty tame.

Personally, if I were his DM, I'd be willing to freely give him a simpler means for level-appropriate zombie creation, just so he wouldn't feel the need to resort to cheese (here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm#skeletalMinion) is a personal favorite of mine from the SRD; and here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?348151-Revised-Dread-Necromancer-%28Fixed-List-Caster-Project%29&p=17455632) is one I kind of like from Grod_the_Giant's homebrew). But, that doesn't help with RoboEmperor's goal of being independent from the DM, so it doesn't meet his actual need here.

[Sleven]

I'm not sure what you mean. The DMG is clear that in order to do something then you have to have something that says you can. This is where you come up with the idea you can't attack unless you can take an attack action, how you can't use the empower spell feat without taking the feat, why you can't enter "Sleven" as your fortitude bonus to saves and use it for initiative checks, or how come your vehicle's fuel tank doesn't penalize your bardic knowledge checks to successfully grapple your foes.

The point I'm making is that being a cleric of Mystra says you can. So this really isn't a counter argument that addresses my point.


Mystra's temples allow a spell to benefit from a metamagic feat without needing to take up a higher level slot, but according the rule compendium's spellcasting's spell results on page 136 says that modifications made by metamagic feats apply only to spells cast by the feat user. So unless you are trying to imply you don't have to take a feat to use it, I'm not sure what direction you are trying to go.

"The modifications made by metamagic feats apply only to spells cast directly by the feat user." Doesn't disagree with what I'm saying if what I'm saying is that being in a temple of Mystra makes you a feat user of any single metamagic feat.

But others have already covered that.