Mage Hunter Fighter

[tigerpuppy]

Our home game is inspired by a lot of difference sources, including the Table Titans webcomic and Dragon Age video games. As such, there are player races in our setting with no access to magic, and indeed many cultures who are antagonistic to magic and magic users. While most of the Dragon Age style Templar builds we have found are either Paladins or Rangers, we based much of this off of Prestige Classes from 3.x. The Fighter build below has been used to build a couple of recurring NPCs who have antagonized one of the parties, but we haven't had any players test this one yet. There are some outstanding issues we are aware of, but at this point have been unable to resolve. Without further ado, the Mage Hunter Fighter. - T

MAGE HUNTER
MAGE SLAYER
At third level, when you choose this archetype, you have mastered techniques which allow you to make life hell for enemy spellcasters. You gain the Mage Slayer feat, which confers the following benefits:
• When a creature within 5 feet of you casts a spell, you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against that creature.
• When you damage a creature that is concentrating on a spell, that creature has disadvantage on the saving throw it makes to maintain its concentration.
• You have advantage on saving throws against spells cast by creatures within 5 feet of you.

SENSE MAGIC
At third level, when you choose this archetype, you’ve learned to trust your senses and identify when you are near magic users and effects. You know if there are spell casters or active spell effects with 20 feet of you, and which direction they are in, though you do not know their location, the school of the effect, or the class of the spellcaster. The range of this effect increases by 10 feet every time your proficiency bonus increases, to a maximum of 60 ft. This effect manifests differently for different individuals, but common manifestations are unpleasant smells, high pitched sounds, or the hairs on your arm standing up.

MAGIC RESISTANCE
At seventh level, your struggles against magic and spellcasters has inured you to magical effects. As long as you are conscious, you have advantage on saving throw made against spells or other magical effects.

SPELL REFLECTION
When you reach tenth level, you have mastered a technique which allows you to turn magic back on its users. If you succeed on a saving throw made against a spell which targets you, you can use your reaction to reflect the spell back on its caster. Spells which target an area of effect (such as fireball) are not affected. As long as the caster is within 30 feet of your, the spellcaster must then save against their own spell save DC or be affected by the spell. If the spell produces a charm effect, the reflected spell instead stuns the caster. If the duration of the spell is concentration, roll 1d6. The caster suffers the effect for a number of rounds equal to your roll. After you use this ability twice, you cannot use it again until after you complete a long rest. This increases to three times at 15th level.

DISPELLING STRIKE
At fifteenth level, your incredible focus allows you to undo spell effects. You can use your Action to make a melee weapon attack and dispel active spell effects as though you had cast dispel magic as a 5th level spell. After you use this ability twice, you cannot use it again until after you complete a long rest. If you use this ability against a spell effect of a level higher than 5th, make an ability check using your Strength or Dexterity modifier (your choice). The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a success, the spell ends.

SUPPRESS SPELLCASTING
At eighteenth level, you have mastered the art of destroying spellcasters, and your attacks can momentarily remove an enemy’s spellcasting ability. When you make a successful melee weapon attack against a spellcaster, you can suppress the enemy’s spellcasting. The target must succeed on a Constitution check against DC (8 + Proficiency + STR or DEX Modifier). If the target fails the saving throw, the target cannot cast spells for 1d4+1 rounds, though they can continue to concentrate on spells which they have active prior to this effect. If the target makes the saving throw, the target cannot cast spells until the end of your next turn, though they can continue to concentrate on spells which they have active prior to this effect.
After you use this ability, you cannot use it again until after you complete a long rest.

[Man_Over_Game]

Hey, Tigerpuppy! Welcome to the forum!

I'll take a look and point out anything major that I see.

Level 3: There's a few things I want to unpack here. Notably, this doesn't have a contingency plan for a character who may already have the Mage Slayer feat, which may be common if someone actually intends to start playing the "Mage Hunter" before hitting Fighter level 3. I'd recommend an alternate option in case they already have a feat, like +2 into a stat of their choosing.

Additionally, with mages being somewhat rare, there's not much for this character to be able to do in a lot of standard combats at level 3. Take a look at the Horizon Walker for comparison. Not only do they get relevant bonus spells, they get a feature that can be used every single battle, every single turn, and it straight up makes them better. They also get a "seek-and-destroy" feature to find those pesky portals (in your case, miscreant mages), but the more important option of the two is the regular usage of the combat feature.

Level 7: Not bad, trying to follow the format of the Ancients Paladin. A little on the bland side, though.

Level 10: Cool, but there's a lot to track here. Firstly, it doesn't work if you were not the only target, which will happen exactly once. I don't foresee too many DMs wanting to cast a single target spell at you, and even if the DM wasn't metagaming, no mage will do it more than once after seeing you.
Additionally, it stuns when reflecting Charms.
Additionally, it reflects a spell but only uses the caster's DC when within 30 feet
Additionally, if the spell is Concentration, it lasts for 1d6 rounds (does that include the stun?)
It's a lot, not to mention the side effects of nullifying certain spells that utilize an Area of Effect with a single target (Ice Knife).

Level 15: I can dig it. It's a little late, and it's honestly a bit weak for a level 15 feature, but I can dig it.

Level 18: A very narrowly focused ability. It's not terrible, but I'd be rather ticked if an enemy pulled this on my Wizard, rendering him literally useless for 3 rounds (when the fight should be over). But for a level 18, it's not bad.

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The main concern I have after reading this is that it doesn't really add much to the Fighter playstyle in any way. A mage will attempt to cast spells, a Fighter will want get up close to that mage as soon as possible. Rinse, repeat. And the Mage Hunter doesn't do it much differently. If there is no mage in the enemy team, you're just a basic Fighter.

Note the differences between that and the other Fighters, who, while all unique, are versatile and usable in virtually any situation. Even the Cavalier, AKA "The mounted class", doesn't actually mention a mount (the most restricted feature of the class) except in one ability that refers to reduced penalties for falling off of the mount.

In your case, though, a Fighter with Mage Slayer already has 4 attacks and a badass feat to take down a mage, and that's usually a good enough answer.

My recommendation is to do a few things:
Have your abilities be tied in to hunting mages, witches, aberrant, you name it. Anything remotely magical, you murder it.

With that being said, maybe be able to grant yourself temporary hitpoints that have resistance to all damage that isn't nonmagical. Which is pretty darn good.

Maybe you grant yourself the equivalent of a Counterspell and Dispel Magic effect, that you can do up to your weapon's range, and even for adjacent allies.

Maybe the energy you gather to track mages also lets you see through their magic, and so you can grant yourself Truesight after a certain level, and can cast Magic Circle, but neither of these abilities are considered magical nor spells.

[tigerpuppy]

Thanks, MOG, for the excellent feedback! I appreciate your insight and hope my responses can be just as cogent!

Re: Mage Slayer; even in its first iteration, I recognized that this was one of the weakest points of the build. I like the idea of a bonus to some ability for fighters who already have the Mage Slayer feat. Wisdom comes to mind since a fair number of spell effects call for wisdom saving throws, though Charisma (in the 'sense of self' aspect) might also be useful. I'll consider this! In addition, I'll look at the Horizon Walker to see how its abilities might be re-purposed.

Re: Magic Resistance; this is the other point that troubles me. In our setting, it's extremely unlikely that a Gnome would take this Archetype, but possible. This is something the Gnome already has, though I suppose if the Oath of Ancients gets this around the same level, I ought not to worry about it too much.

Re: Spell Reflection; this is pulled from a 3e prestige class that I can't remember off the top of my head right now. I agree: I tried to 5e-ify it, but it's definitely a lot to keep track of, and it's probably excessively clumsy for 5e. I'll think about how I can modify it to make it more useful in AOEs and less specific to single target spells.

Re: Dispelling Strike; Thanks! I'll think of some ways I can beef it up.

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Your thinking aligns with my partner's (P): the build is a bit too narrow. Originally, one of the goals was to make this useful against virtually any magical effect, not just spells. Like you said, mages, witches, aberrations, but even things with innate spellcasting and magical effects. The problem was that, to the best of my knowledge, 5e doesn't have a structure like 3e did for spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities, and so writing tight language to have Spell Reflection work on, say, a Beholder's eye rays or a Bodak's Withering Gaze, seems a little bit beyond my current abilities.

I will definitely take your ideas under advisement though, and try to post a second draft soon, probably to this same thread. Best, T.

[Man_Over_Game]

Thanks, MOG, for the excellent feedback! I appreciate your insight and hope my responses can be just as cogent!

Re: Mage Slayer; even in its first iteration, I recognized that this was one of the weakest points of the build. I like the idea of a bonus to some ability for fighters who already have the Mage Slayer feat. Wisdom comes to mind since a fair number of spell effects call for wisdom saving throws, though Charisma (in the 'sense of self' aspect) might also be useful. I'll consider this! In addition, I'll look at the Horizon Walker to see how its abilities might be re-purposed.

Re: Magic Resistance; this is the other point that troubles me. In our setting, it's extremely unlikely that a Gnome would take this Archetype, but possible. This is something the Gnome already has, though I suppose if the Oath of Ancients gets this around the same level, I ought not to worry about it too much.

Re: Spell Reflection; this is pulled from a 3e prestige class that I can't remember off the top of my head right now. I agree: I tried to 5e-ify it, but it's definitely a lot to keep track of, and it's probably excessively clumsy for 5e. I'll think about how I can modify it to make it more useful in AOEs and less specific to single target spells.

Re: Dispelling Strike; Thanks! I'll think of some ways I can beef it up.

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Your thinking aligns with my partner's (P): the build is a bit too narrow. Originally, one of the goals was to make this useful against virtually any magical effect, not just spells. Like you said, mages, witches, aberrations, but even things with innate spellcasting and magical effects. The problem was that, to the best of my knowledge, 5e doesn't have a structure like 3e did for spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities, and so writing tight language to have Spell Reflection work on, say, a Beholder's eye rays or a Bodak's Withering Gaze, seems a little bit beyond my current abilities.

I will definitely take your ideas under advisement though, and try to post a second draft soon, probably to this same thread. Best, T.

A simple solution would be to make a specialized spell list of abilities that you can cast, that you can add to, and that recharge on a long rest or after using some kind of ability that you get at level 3.

Something like this:

Arcane Absorption
When you or an ally within 5 feet of you is the target of a magical effect, you can spend your Reaction to rend the arcane energy with your weapon and convert it into raw power. This includes any ability or attack that deals magical damage.
You may make a DC check equal to 10 + the spell's spellcasting modifier (if applicable) + Spell Level, using your attack roll for your check. If you succeed, any attacks from the magical effect deals half damage, and you and all allies adjacent to you gain advantage on any saves from the magical effect.

You can use this feature twice times per short or long rest.

Arcane Feedback
You have learned to convert incoming magical force into temporary power, to warp into a tool to suit your needs.
When you successfully block a magical effect from Arcane Absorption, you gain a use of Feedback. You can expend your use of Feedback to duplicate the casting of these spells on the following list. Warping the energy in this way is considered not casting a spell, and is considered non-magical. Your use of Feedback only lasts for 1 minute, and is wasted if unused before then. The modifier for these spell-like abilities is your Wisdom score.


Absorb Elements
Shield
Jump (Can only target self)
Longstrider (Can only target self)
Hunter's Mark
Zephyr Strike


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With an ability as generic as "Twice a day, block magical damage, then cast a Fighter-esc spell" is pretty dang consistent. With it being so versatile in almost every fight, you can simply just tack on more things to it for later levels.

Things like
"You can now use your Arcane Absorption feature 3 times per short rest."
"You now have Silence/Dispel Magic added to the Arcane Feedback list"
"You now have Counterspell added to your Arcane Feedback list. When using it on a target within 15 feet of you and successfully making the related check, you gain a use of Arcane Feedback".
"Your Arcane Absorption ability now extends out to allies within 10 feet".

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Regardless of the route you decide to go with, there are two big things I'd recommend:
1: Don't add the Mage Slayer feat to the class itself, but have features that welcome the Mage Slayer feat, which may be difficult (since you risk a lot of overlap of features). Take, for example, the Barbarian, who gets a lot of benefit for using heavier weapons with their Reckless Attack and their Brutal Critical (utilizing higher crit chance and extra damage die that works with heavy weapons), that also synergize with the Great Weapon Master feat (which provides benefits for dealing critical damage).

A Barbarian naturally has effects that reward using heavy weapons. So does Great Weapon Master. But rather than both instances making each other redundant, they both add features that synergize with one another, so a Barbarian with GWM is actually quite a bit more effective at working each feature off of one another.

2: The first subclass feature is the coolest, flashiest part of the entire subclass, and everything else can only add to it. Other abilities may be more powerful (like with Oath of the Ancients Paladin and Magic Resistance) but the level 3 feature has to be the fun part, to incentivize further investment into the class and so that players know what to look forward to in future levels.