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Dr. Weasel
2007-09-20, 05:01 PM
Hello everybody.

I am trying to figure a means of creating a Wizard (Transmuter, probably banning Necromancy and Enchantment)/Spellthief which can at least pretend keep up with straight Wizards up to level 10* (I don't know if the campaign is going this long, but I might as well plan on it). I'm looking at a 20 level build because that puts some descisions into perspective (taking a mediocre feat to meet later prerequisites and such).

There are other primary arcanists so I probably won't have to worry about being Batman, just being marginally effective.

Wizard has to show up as a class within the first two levels and neither the Wizard class nor the Transmuter specialization are negotiable.

Sources Available:
All Core including the PHB II and DMG II, The Complete Arcane, The Complete Adventurer, The Complete Warrior, Unearthed Arcana.

The Master Spellthief feat has been Okay-ed.

Statistics are:8,15,15,17,10,14

At the moment, this is the best (legal) option I've come up with:

1:Spellthief 1-Eschew Materials (Something nasty's going to happen with material components and I like this more than bottomless component pouches anyway), Point Blank Shot
2:Wizard 1
3:Wizard 2-Precise Shot
4:Spellthief 2
5:Wizard 3
6:Spellthief 3-Master Spellthief
7:Wizard 4
8:Spellthief 4
9:Wizard 5-Deadeye Shot, Craft Wand
10:Spellthief 5
11:Arcane Trickster 1
12:Spellthief 6-Sharp Shooting
13:Arcane Trickster 2
14:Spellthief 7
15:Arcane Trickster 3-Improved Initiative
16:Spellthief 8
17:Arcane Trickster 4
18:Spellthief 9-Quicken Spell
19:Arcane Trickster 5
20:Arcane Trickster 6


Any advice on more efficient builds or on general play would be appreciated.

*I doubt there's going to be too much optimization, but I'll probably be the skill-guy anyway so I'll have a use no-matter-what.

Fax Celestis
2007-09-20, 05:03 PM
Why're you staggering AT with Spellthief? with the Master Spellthief feat, the AT's +1 Casting counts towards Steal Spell.

Dr. Weasel
2007-09-20, 05:04 PM
So I can hold the level of spells that I can steal instead of just removing them from opponents.

Fax Celestis
2007-09-20, 05:08 PM
So I can hold the level of spells that I can steal instead of just removing them from opponents.

Depending on your DMs reading of the Master Spellthief feat, that may be included within the feat itself. I'd ask your DM. If he says no, then yeah, sticking with your progression is probably a good one. What's your spell list look like?

EDIT: you also may want to take a look at this thread.

Dr. Weasel
2007-09-20, 05:32 PM
I hadn't had that ready, but I'll throw an outline together.
I don't have any books with me, so out of the SRD:

Level 1:Disguise Self, Shield, Unseen Servant, Expeditious Retreat, Shield, Grease, Enlarge Person, Reduce Person
Level 2:Alter Self (I'm focusing on disguise, not cheese), Knock, Invisibility, Mirror Image
Level 3:Haste, Fly, Blink, Wind Wall
Level 4:Polymorph (again not to cheat, but for utility), Greater Invisibility, Dimension Door, Black Tentacles
Level 5:Overland Flight, Wall of Force, Telekinesis, Passwall
Level 6:Greater Dispel Magic, Disintegrate

From Spellthief:
1:Feather Fall, Jump, Detect Secret Doors, Ventriloquism
2:Minor Image, Detect Thoughts

The Spellthief spells will not be needed regularly, but could be assests should the need for them arise. Generally I'm trying to avoid caster-level dependant spells there.

Do you have any better suggestions?

Sorry about that, it took a bit longer than I expected.

Fax Celestis
2007-09-20, 05:49 PM
Sorceror, actually, might be a better option so you don't have to spread yourself so thin on stats. You'd be totally Cha dependent for magic, instead of Int/Cha.

Dr. Weasel
2007-09-20, 05:54 PM
I know, but part of the campaign depends on Wizard-ness and I don't particularly feel like arguing for a different class.

Also, my stat rolls worked out pretty well. I can probably get by on 15 Charisma until level 8.

Fax Celestis
2007-09-20, 05:55 PM
Workable, then.

Make sure you take a good look at spells like Bands of Steel and Armor Lock. They're great ways to get SA.

CASTLEMIKE
2007-09-20, 11:31 PM
The Spell Thief is a really flavorful class but their primary thing is stealing spells which generally makes them a city based class in most campaigns since that is where you generally find them in numbers according to DMG demographics Metropolis and Cities.

It depends on your game but in most campaigns there aren't lots of spellcaster encounters for Spellthief to steal spells from spellcaster.

Consider taking two flaws.

Normally a Beguiler - 1 with the Precocious Apprentice feat (Should qualify for enty into Master Specialist for the Transmutator side at level 3), Transmuter -1, Master Specialist(Transmuter) - 3, Ultimate Magus - 6 could make a pretty effect caster comparable to a standard wizard using the Practiced Spellcaster feat. Losing Illusion for the second school as a Transmuter might not be a bad idea since Beguiler has quite a few good ones.

It would be a better meta caster than a comparable wizard spellcaster with Ultimate Magus meta, Arcane Power bonus to each class plus quite a few useful spontaneous spells (Losing Enchantment is no problems with those Beguiler levels you get some occassionally useful spells (Sleep is really strong at level 1 in a level up campaign) which could be

Chronos
2007-09-21, 04:10 PM
You probably want to throw in a ray or two among your wizard spells, for use with Sneak Attack (since they ignore armor). Though I suppose that wizards know all cantrips for free, so Ray of Frost or Acid Splash could serve that purpose.