Spell: material consumed with cost but not indicated on description

[Dark Schneider]

I'll use as example the Protection from Evil and Good, but there could be other cases.

The required M is holy water or silver and iron powder. The holy water costs 25 gp, then we have:

https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/04/09/can-protection-from-evil-and-good-be-cast-with-a-component-pouch-or-a-focus/



So the material component should be interpreted as a vial of holy water worth 25 gold OR powdered silver worth 25 gold, correct?

Jeremy Crawford @JeremyECrawford

The cost isn't a concern for that spell, only that you have some of the material for the spell to consume. It's a narrative device: sprinkling holy water or the powder.
OK, isn't a concern, but the material have a cost. In the case of holy water are 25 gp, what about the powder? Could I make powder from a single sp and old tools for iron and cast the spell? Or may I get powder from a total of 25 gp of material from both silver and iron source?

Because maybe isn't a concern, but is not the same 1 sp than 25 gp.

So, we have 2 options:
1) Indeed isn't a concern, you could use a few powder to cast it, with no relevant cost, but if you don't have it and what you have at hand at that moment is holy water, then you can also use it.
2) The material cost is 25 gp in any case. But in the spell is not indicated.

[OldTrees1]

If I read that correctly:
It uses a negligible amount of holy water (say 1 drop) from inside your component pouch (which abstracts the obtaining/storage/usage of negligible material components). This costs you 0gp beyond the cost of getting a component pouch/holy symbol.

[Dark Schneider]

Yes that could be another option. But as it says it is consumed, the multiple uses for holy water is DM dependant as Jeremy says. So it would be a 3rd option.

[Porcupinata]

Almost every spell in the book falls into one of three categories:

1) It has no material components.

2) It has named material components, which may or may not be given a cost, but those components are not consumed during casting.

3) It has named material components, with a cost, that are consumed during casting.

Protection From Evil and Good is the only spell in the game that falls into a fourth category:

4) It has named material components, without a cost, that are consumed during casting.

So there are two things to consider about the spell. Firstly, does your character have to spend money on the components? And secondly, can those components be replaced by a Component Pouch or Focus (e.g. a Holy Symbol)?

For the first question, the book is prettty vague. Unless there's a particular reason (e.g. the party are shipwrecked on a deserted island without any of their equipment) then material components without a cost are usually assumed to be easily acquired - there's no need for a character to shop for them and spend money on them. The same would therefore seem to apply to the holy water and/or silver dust required by this spell. It only takes a small sprinkling, far less than a whole 25gp vial, so it can be handwaved. The caster doesn't need to spend money on it in the same way that they don't need to spend money on bat guano and sulfur to for a fireball spell. However, you'll note that I said things like "usually assumed" here - this isn't something there's a hard and fast rule for, so it is probably up to each group to play it how they prefer.

For the second question we're on firmer ground. The rules for component pouches and foci specifically say that they can replace any component that is not given a cost. Since the small amounts of holy water/silver used by the spell are not given a cost, they can be replaced by the use of a component pouch or a focus. There's no ambiguity there.

[Dark Schneider]

Yes, the problem is beign vague. We have this from official:


@JeremyECrawford Can Protection From Evil and Good be cast with a component pouch or a focus?

Jeremy Crawford
If a spell consumes its material component, you must provide that component every time you cast it.
So you have to use the component, not the focus.




So the material component should be interpreted as a vial of holy water worth 25 gold OR powdered silver worth 25 gold, correct?

Jeremy Crawford @JeremyECrawford
The cost isn't a concern for that spell, only that you have some of the material for the spell to consume. It's a narrative device: sprinkling holy water or the powder.
This is the most confusing one. You consume it, but the cost isn't a concern.??




In practical terms, does that mean a flask of holy water could be reused for multiple castings of the spell?

Jeremy Crawford @JeremyECrawford

If a DM was generous and allowed that. Typically, a DM will expect a flask to be used.
So, "a holy water", is a full flask. But the cost isn't a concern. This brings me to think about point 1 on original post, you can use some powder with no significant cost (but you have to make it), or use a costly holy water if you don't have the powder at that moment.

[OldTrees1]

So you have to use the component, not the focus.

This is the most confusing one. You consume it, but the cost isn't a concern.??

I suggest using the Official Player's Handbook as a source:


A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.

If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.

If no cost is listed,
1) A spellcasting focus replaces the material component entirely.
2) The component pouch effectively contains an indefinite supply of the component for, and only for, the purpose of casting the spell.

So you reach into your pouch for a pinch of dust and I hold my holy symbol. Neither of us spends any gp.

Rephrased:
If the spell has a material component it must be provided. If the component has a cost, you need that specific component. If the component does not have a cost then you can replace it with a focus or a component pouch.

[Dark Schneider]

But the later

If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell
Overrides the use of focus. At least from the official perspective.

[DeTess]

But the later

Overrides the use of focus. At least from the official perspective.

Then the 'official' perspective is that spellcasting Foci are useless, as the point of spellcasting foci is that they replace materials without a cost. I really doubt that that's the case.

[Dark Schneider]

Then the 'official' perspective is that spellcasting Foci are useless, as the point of spellcasting foci is that they replace materials without a cost. I really doubt that that's the case.
No, it replaces all the materials with no cost and that are not consumed. Most of the materials with no cost are not consumed.

It really replaces the components pouch.

[DeTess]

No, it replaces all the materials with no cost and that are not consumed. Most of the materials with no cost are not consumed.

It really replaces the components pouch.

So you need to provide your own bat guano for fireballs and bring live spiders for spider climb? I really think you're reading far too much into this and making it way more difficult than it has to be. It's really pretty simple: If spell has component with price listed as part of the description, Then get specific component. Else use Focus or component pouch.

Someone wouldn't suddenly become incapable of casting fireball with a focus if someone in the setting sold Bat guano, the same thing goes for your holy water conundrum. Yes, you can buy holy water in a certain form, but that's not what the spell requires or it would have specified a cost of 25gp.

Edit: huh, interesting. Apparently you no longer need to eat the spider to get the benefits from spider climb in this edition, so it's ambiguous whether its actually consumed. My overall argument that you're making things way to difficult for yourself by trying to make up complications where there are none, for a spell that doesn't need it, but I suppose I can see where an overly RAW reading might get you the results you seem to get.

[Dark Schneider]

So you need to provide your own bat guano for fireballs and bring live spiders for spider climb? I really think you're reading far too much into this and making it way more difficult than it has to be. It's really pretty simple: If spell has component with price listed as part of the description, Then get specific component. Else use Focus or component pouch.

Someone wouldn't suddenly become incapable of casting fireball with a focus if someone in the setting sold Bat guano, the same thing goes for your holy water conundrum. Yes, you can buy holy water in a certain form, but that's not what the spell requires or it would have specified a cost of 25gp.

Edit: huh, interesting. Apparently you no longer need to eat the spider to get the benefits from spider climb in this edition, so it's ambiguous whether its actually consumed. My overall argument that you're making things way to difficult for yourself by trying to make up complications where there are none, for a spell that doesn't need it, but I suppose I can see where an overly RAW reading might get you the results you seem to get.
Notice that in this edition most of the material components are not consumed. When is consumed, it is mentioned. If not mentioned, it is not consumed. Pretty handy.

[DeTess]

Notice that in this edition most of the material components are not consumed. When is consumed, it is mentioned. If not mentioned, it is not consumed. Pretty handy.

Yeah, I had gotten my editions crossed here, sorry.

[JackPhoenix]

There are two spells with consumed component without listed cost, and both of those have cost listed elsewhere in the book: Snare requires 25' of rope, and while we don't have a cost for 25' of rope, we *do* have cost for 50' of rope, you just cut it in half. It doesn't specify what rope you need, so both hempen and silk rope work. Protection from Evil and Good requires holy water, which has a listed cost of 25 gp.

[Dark Schneider]

Protection from Evil and Good requires holy water, which has a listed cost of 25 gp.
But what about if you want to use powder? 25 gp in silver, this is, 250 sp are a interesting ammount of powder. Each coin weights 1/3 oz, 50 coins 1 pound, 250 coins 5 pounds. Add the corresponding iron. Is not too much powder?
Even a single coin gives you enough for:

It's a narrative device: sprinkling holy water or the powder.
As we can suppose 50/50 of silver/iron, you are sprinkling 2/3 oz (18 g). That is a good ammount of powder to sprinkle.

Then, this makes me think again about the 1st option, that would be probably the one I will use, it could be something like:

- Powder: you have to prepare it. For 1 usage, you could get the silver from 1sp, and the iron from any source, as usually it will not be a problem, from any weapon, piece of armor, old tools...even if you want to buy the material as iron ingots, I would consider the cost for the iron would be about 1cp, so if the ingot costs 10cp, it can provide up to 10 uses. To obtain the powder, you can use a whetstone, and it would take 10 minutes (looking at DMG about actions and duration) to prepare the powder for 1 use.

- Holy water: if you have no powder, because you used all you had, or any other reason, and you have holy water, then you can use it. In any case it is better to use a holy water that suffer worst consecuences.