View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Trickery Domain Revision

2018-11-26, 03:09 PM
I made a thread a couple weeks back about some of my problems with the design of the Trickery Domain for clerics. But instead of complaining some more I thought I'd take a crack at a homebrew revision


The main issues I was trying to fix was (A) their level 6 feature, Cloak of Shadows, being terrible, (B) them having a woefully weak first level compared to other domains and (C) making the language for Invoke Duplicity more clear while giving some more use so that it can compete with other concentration spells. Let me know what you guys think!

2018-11-26, 03:39 PM
Honestly if all you want is for trickery clerics to be op you just have to give the same "I am going to pick the best wizard spells ever" selection as 3.5 did.(trickery domain was good not because of the granted power(which was rather nice) but because of the awesome spells)

So you might do something like adding 3 skills proficiency at level 1(so that it becomes more useful on one point than the other clerics) and having good spells and not worry too much about class features since spells like invisibility are worth as much as many class features.
and yes in 3.5 it gave 3 class skills which was in fact really cool.

2018-11-28, 10:50 AM
Honestly if all you want is for trickery clerics to be op you just have to give the same "I am going to pick the best wizard spells ever" selection as 3.5 did.(trickery domain was good not because of the granted power(which was rather nice) but because of the awesome spells)It's not really my intent for Trickery to be OP, so...

2018-11-28, 08:54 PM
As you have it, I think this is a good way to improve upon existing issues in the main features of the trickery domain. You clearly have a good eye for what is and isn't balanced at certain levels. I'll start with your changes and additions.

Switching dispel magic to major image is good.

Master of Mischief is balanced and thematic. I think you did a nice job fixing the issue of the 1st-level hurt-fest trickery clerics have been dealing with for a while.

Invoke Duplicity is a little more interesting, now. You did a nice job with language, I have to say. Five minutes is a lot, but I don't think it's gamebreakingly so. The switching is uber cool. I'm a big fan of the switching. That's trickery right there. Altogether, I think this makes Invoke Duplicity much more worthy of a Channel Divinity use. As a nitpick, I'm not sure that "free actions" are a thing in 5e (I could be wrong), so I might word it something closer to "You can move the illusion a distance equal to your movement speed on your turn with no action required."

Cloak of Shadows should never have been a Channel Divinity in my opinion, so it's good to see I'm not the only one that thought so. Seems pretty balanced to me, I think you did a nice job fixing this issue as well.

The psychic damage on Divine Strike is definitely a different flavor, but it's a different path, not necessarily worse or better than poison (thematically). Mechanically of course, now trickery clerics don't have to deal with resistance all the time, which most other Divine Strike damage types don't have to deal with. Optionally, you could give the choice between poison and psychic, similar to how nature's Divine Strike is worded, just because I think both are cool options.

Improved Duplicity is a nice upgrade. Not much to say there. Good job

My Proposition
So I have a proposal as a change to your current revision. The main problem I've had (and I know others have had - you can take a look at this popular cleric guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?374604-The-Devout-and-the-Dead-a-guide-to-Clerics) for more background on this, and probably a better explanation) with the Trickery domain is that they get Divine Strike, which puts them into the Melee category of clerics, but they get no proficiencies with this. All of the other domains (except Death) with Divine Strike get heavy armor proficiency, and even death still gets martial weapon proficiency. This is to make up for the fact that simple weapons kinda suck and medium armor is lackluster in melee. I don't think Trickery should get heavy armor, mainly for that pesky disadvantage on Stealth, but to make up for the fact that Trickery is shoehorned into being melee when they don't get any melee bonuses, I propose that you give them proficiency in martial weapons. This would also allow them to make use of a Dex build more effectively, which is what many Trickery clerics probably would like to build, but obviously dagger and dagger/shield is Not GreatTM.

Overall, I like the revision and would gladly allow one of my players to use this in lieu of the book's trickery domain. Very nice work, and very professional! (I like the picture of the raven)

2018-11-29, 10:25 AM
Believe me, I'm as annoyed as anyone that Trickery is the only domain that gets Divine Strike that does not receive heavy armor or martial weapon proficiency.

That said, I feel now that Invoke Duplicity no longer grants advantage on melee strikes, they aren't shoehorned into being melee. Keep in mind that Divine Strike affects ranged weapon attacks as well.

I would give them Martial Weapon proficiency, but their first level is already pretty stacked in this revision with a Cantrip, a Skill Proficiency, and a class feature. I could replace Divine Strike with Potent Spellcasting, but that could be too much of a buff.