Path of the Spell Eater (Barbarian subclass)

[Grod_The_Giant]

Path of the Spell Eater
Most barbarians distrust magic, preferring to rely on cold steel and skill. Some, though, turn that distrust into hate, and that hate into power.

Iron Counterspell: Beginning at 3rd level, while raging, you gain advantage on saves against spells, and you may draw and throw a light throwing weapon as a bonus action.

If a creature within 30ft casts a spell, you may throw a weapon at them as a reaction; if hit, they must make a concentration save (DC of 10 or 1/2 damage, whichever is higher) or fail to cast the spell, though they also do not expend the spell slot. You do not suffer from Disadvantage for making these attacks while within melee range of an enemy. You may do so even when wielding a weapon in two hands, letting go just long enough to make a single-handed throw.

Spell Eater: Beginning at 6th level, when you successfully save against a spell, your current and maximum hit points increase by the level of the spell until you take a long rest. If you successfully save against multiple spells, your hit point maximum continues to increase. If the spell affects other targets, they gain advantage on their saves as you absorb some of the spell's power.

Steel Counterspell: Beginning at 6th level, your Iron Counterspell ability improves: you may draw and throw any thrown weapon, you may add your Rage Damage bonus and Reckless Attack abilities to thrown weapon attacks made using strength, and you may use your reaction to throw a weapon at an enemy casting a spell within 60ft.

Pierce Magic: Beginning at 10th level, you are considered to be permanently under the effects of a Detect Magic spell, with no concentration required, and no action required to see magical auras. If a creature you can see is capable of casting spells, you recognize its power and know the highest level of spell it can cast.

Devour Magic: Beginning at 14th level, when you touch an ally or strike a target with a weapon attack while raging, you may subject it to the effects of a Dispel Magic spell, cast from a spell slot of one-half your Barbarian level (round down), using your Strength modifier in place of your spellcasting ability. Once you have done so, you cannot do so again for the duration of your rage.

[Vogie]

Path of the Spell Eater
Most barbarians distrust magic, preferring to rely on cold steel and skill. Some, though, turn that distrust into hate, and that hate into power.

[QUOTE=Grod_The_Giant;23530222]Iron Counterspell: Beginning at 3rd level, while raging, you gain advantage on saves against spells, and you may draw and throw a light weapon as a bonus action. If a creature within 30ft casts a spell, you may throw a weapon at them as a reaction; if hit, they must make a concentration save or fail to cast the spell, though they also do not expend the spell slot.

This is pretty cool. As written, you can only use ranged attacks to interrupt spells, so if you're in melee range, you'd have disadvantage on this attack. Was this the intention?

Also, is the spell based on the caster's Concentration check (DC of either 10, or half the damage dealt, whichever number is higher) or are you setting a DC for the ability


Spell Eater: Beginning at 6th level, when you successfully save against a spell, you gain temporary hit points equal to the spell level times your Constitution modifier. These hit points last for one minute.

This seems a bit weak?


Pierce Magic: Beginning at 10th level, you are considered to be permanently under the effects of a Detect Magic spell, with no concentration required, and no action required to see magical auras. If a creature you can see is capable of casting spells, you recognize its power and know the highest level of spell it can cast.

Good for a mage hunter, in line with barbarian ribbon features.


Devour Magic: Beginning at 14th level, when you damage a creature currently concentrating on a spell, they automatically fail their Concentration save. You gain hit points equal to the spell level times your Constitution modifier, and your melee attacks next round deal bonus damage equal to the spell's level.

Is this supposed to be able to be pulled off every attack? If so, it's too strong. It could also be read as it also makes your Iron Counterspell autofail, which I don't think is the intent.

I could see disadvantage on creatures' concentration check on all damage dealt by you (which would also augment your 3rd level feature), OR a limited number of autofail concentration saves on concentration spells, based off of something (Prof bonus, Con, Wis, or Int Mod, et cetera) per rest (probably not STR mod, as it's already maxed out by this point).

You could also limit it by focusing on either melee or ranged attacks.

[Grod_The_Giant]

This is pretty cool. As written, you can only use ranged attacks to interrupt spells, so if you're in melee range, you'd have disadvantage on this attack. Was this the intention?
Not really. I was going back and forth on how much I could overlap with Mage Slayer. I'll add a note about the throw working in melee range.


Also, is the spell based on the caster's Concentration check (DC of either 10, or half the damage dealt, whichever number is higher) or are you setting a DC for the ability
Normal concentration rules. Wrong language?


This seems a bit weak?
You think? It's modifier TIMES spell level; that's a pretty good chunk of hit points.


Good for a mage hunter, in line with barbarian ribbon features.
Thanks. It's a ribbon I've used in two places now: once for a super-scholarly wizard, and once for this. Irony!


Is this supposed to be able to be pulled off every attack? If so, it's too strong. It could also be read as it also makes your Iron Counterspell autofail, which I don't think is the intent.

I could see disadvantage on creatures' concentration check on all damage dealt by you (which would also augment your 3rd level feature), OR a limited number of autofail concentration saves on concentration spells, based off of something (Prof bonus, Con, Wis, or Int Mod, et cetera) per rest (probably not STR mod, as it's already maxed out by this point).

You could also limit it by focusing on either melee or ranged attacks.
Hmm. I'll fiddle with it. Maybe something more Dispel Magic-y?

[Vogie]

You think? It's modifier TIMES spell level; that's a pretty good chunk of hit points.

You're not wrong. It's just incredibly narrow. And it's completely out of your control. If you don't have spells to dodge/resist, you get nothing. If you already used it before and get another trigger on a smaller amount, you effectively get nothing because they don't stack. Sure, if you are still taking half damage, it'll be like a clunky version of evasion.

Compare it to something like the Battlerager's Reckless Abandon, which is a lower number of THP, but you could reliably trigger each turn if desired. And that's a melee-oriented build, while this one which seems to have a nod to a ranged build, so those THP will probably hang around longer if not removed by taking the half damage.

I see that you added rage damage to thrown attacks, which certainly fits.

Maybe, since it's called Spell eater, you gain increasing DR for that damage type? Not resistance, a la Absorb Elements, but maybe something closer to HAM's flat DR?

You take fire damage, and as long as you continue raging, you take 3 less fire damage for the duration, and that ability stacks. If that's too little, maybe base the number off of prof bonus, so it'll grow from 3 to 6 per stack. If you're dealt multiple types of damage, with something like Hunger of Hadar, you'll get a stack of DR for cold damage and a stack of DR for Acid.


Hmm. I'll fiddle with it. Maybe something more Dispel Magic-y?

That would work - it's quite strong, as it's a 7th Level Dispel Magic. But you get it 5/LR, and at 20 you can get it up to once every 2 turns (Bonus action Rage, Attack. Next turn, attack again then end rage as a bonus action. Following turn, start over), which is probably broken but it's level 20 so why not!

[Grod_The_Giant]

You're not wrong. It's just incredibly narrow. And it's completely out of your control. If you don't have spells to dodge/resist, you get nothing. If you already used it before and get another trigger on a smaller amount, you effectively get nothing because they don't stack. Sure, if you are still taking half damage, it'll be like a clunky version of evasion.

Compare it to something like the Battlerager's Reckless Abandon, which is a lower number of THP, but you could reliably trigger each turn if desired. And that's a melee-oriented build, while this one which seems to have a nod to a ranged build, so those THP will probably hang around longer if not removed by taking the half damage.

I see that you added rage damage to thrown attacks, which certainly fits.

Maybe, since it's called Spell eater, you gain increasing DR for that damage type? Not resistance, a la Absorb Elements, but maybe something closer to HAM's flat DR?

You take fire damage, and as long as you continue raging, you take 3 less fire damage for the duration, and that ability stacks. If that's too little, maybe base the number off of prof bonus, so it'll grow from 3 to 6 per stack. If you're dealt multiple types of damage, with something like Hunger of Hadar, you'll get a stack of DR for cold damage and a stack of DR for Acid.
Yeah, the passive-ness is a fair point. Maybe if it was a reaction counterspell type thing, so you can eat spells targeting other people?

[Vogie]

Yeah, the passive-ness is a fair point. Maybe if it was a reaction counterspell type thing, so you can eat spells targeting other people?

Actually, that's not a bad idea. Narrow the 3rd level feature to only spells targeting you with that stacking DR, then at 6 it expands to any spells, which would include targeting others and AOEs

[jiriku]

I would suggest the temp hp from Spell Eater last until the end of the next long rest, but the ability be restricted to only spells cast by hostile creatures. This brings the duration into line with the default duration for temp HP, and eliminates the un-thematic exploit of having allies use at-will spell abilities to continuously top off the barbarian's hit points.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Actually, that's not a bad idea. Narrow the 3rd level feature to only spells targeting you with that stacking DR, then at 6 it expands to any spells, which would include targeting others and AOEs


I would suggest the temp hp from Spell Eater last until the end of the next long rest, but the ability be restricted to only spells cast by hostile creatures. This brings the duration into line with the default duration for temp HP, and eliminates the un-thematic exploit of having allies use at-will spell abilities to continuously top off the barbarian's hit points.
Counterspell 1/rage, with the option for either (long lasting?) temporary hit points or having a beneficial spell target you?

I'm hesitant to use your stacking DR system because I'm concerned it would be too clunky, at least by 5e standards.

[Vogie]

I'm hesitant to use your stacking DR system because I'm concerned it would be too clunky, at least by 5e standards.

Maybe instead of a stacking one, you get a single High DR for that damage type for the end of the rage, kind of like the Ranger's Multiattack Defense? Maybe tie it in with a damage boost on next attack a la Absorb Elements?

[Grod_The_Giant]

How 'bout something like this for 6th level?

Spell Eater: Beginning at 6th level, when you successfully save against a spell, your current and maximum hit points increase by the level of the spell until you take a long rest. If you successfully save against multiple spells, your hit point maximum continues to increase. If the spell affects other targets, they gain advantage on their saves as you absorb some of the spell's power.

Steel Counterspell: Beginning at 6th level, you may add your Rage Damage bonus and Reckless Attack abilities to thrown weapon attacks made using strength, and you may use your reaction to throw a light weapon at an enemy casting a spell within 60ft.

[tigerpuppy]

I'm not sure I have anything to add to the mechanics conversation that's happening here, but I do want to say that I really like this build. Just from a thematic standpoint, I think this is a really interesting take on a "countermage," and definitely not something I had considered myself. Very cool!

[Vogie]

Spell Eater: Beginning at 6th level, when you successfully save against a spell, your current and maximum hit points increase by the level of the spell until you take a long rest. If you successfully save against multiple spells, your hit point maximum continues to increase. If the spell affects other targets, they gain advantage on their saves as you absorb some of the spell's power.

I really like this. Maybe:

use the Ancestral Guardian wording so you can use your reaction to give everyone else advantage... OR
absorb spell damage dealt to others similar to a Redemption/Crown Paladin? OR
A bit of both?


Maybe a faux-resistance, by absorbing half damage dealt to others?



Also, keep the "In addition, you may add your Rage Damage to thrown weapon attacks" somewhere... either at 6, or add it to the 3rd level feature.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Thanks, guys! :smallredface:


use the Ancestral Guardian wording so you can use your reaction to give everyone else advantage... OR
It already gives everyone else targeted advantage?


Also, keep the "In addition, you may add your Rage Damage to thrown weapon attacks" somewhere... either at 6, or add it to the 3rd level feature.
I was going to give Steel Counterspell as well.

[Vogie]

It already gives everyone else targeted advantage?


Right. I'm saying you could make it use a reaction to do so, making it a meaningful choice.

Do you want the spell eater to be able to

attempt to interrupt spells (with a reaction) AND then also provide advantage to those affected by the spell (for free); or
attempt to interrupt spells OR provide advantage to those Affected by a spell (because they both cost a reaction)


Now I dwell on it, it's probably best as written because the sixth level feature is so narrow

[Grod_The_Giant]

Now I dwell on it, it's probably best as written because the sixth level feature is so narrow
That's kinda where I'm at too. It's a heck of a boost if it comes up, but the number of encounters where someone is casting multi-target spells that the Barbarian successfully saves against isn't likely to be that high. Luckily the base Barbarian is solid enough to get away with a narrow subclass. (And, you know, chucking a handaxe every turn for an extra d6+Str+rage damage doesn't hurt).

Come to think of it, would it be worth expanding Iron Counterspell (or Steel?) to allow non-light thrown weapons? That would let you use javelins (slightly increased range), darts (and thus, I guess, Sharpshooter?), and nets (which you would..actually be pretty decent at using).

[Vogie]

Come to think of it, would it be worth expanding Iron Counterspell (or Steel?) to allow non-light thrown weapons? That would let you use javelins (slightly increased range), darts (and thus, I guess, Sharpshooter?), and nets (which you would..actually be pretty decent at using).

Yes. I think Darts should be able to be thrown at 3, but being able to throw javelins & honestly anything else could be available later on. For a class that can disenchant their fellow party members with the backside of their weapon, being able to throw nets and even rocks as counterspell distractions isn't that big of a stretch

[Grod_The_Giant]

Done. Also added a nonviolent option to the dispel.