Is book 6 about to end?

[Procyonpi]

We're at just over 200 strips, which is a good length, and it feels like the plotlines of this book are wrapping up. I feel like we're probably gonna see a few strips of OOTS post-resurrection, followed by a short-ish section with team evil where something big happens to raise the stakes for Book 7, probably with them finding Kraagor's Gate.

Thoughts?

Also, what do y'all think Book 6 is going to be called?

[Peelee]

Also, what do y'all think Book 6 is going to be called?

Running with the Devils. sick guitar riff

[Fyraltari]

Like a Bat out of Hel?
Clerics: the Masquerade?

[Peelee]

Like a Bat out of Hel?

I Would Do Anything For Loki (But I Won't Do That)?

[Ruck]

We're at just over 200 strips, which is a good length, and it feels like the plotlines of this book are wrapping up. I feel like we're probably gonna see a few strips of OOTS post-resurrection, followed by a short-ish section with team evil where something big happens to raise the stakes for Book 7, probably with them finding Kraagor's Gate.

Thoughts?

Also, what do y'all think Book 6 is going to be called?

I thought we were going to have about 20-30 strips after Durkula was killed, but I didn't know we'd spend this long in the afterlife. I'm going with that again, but leaning to the longer side. I'm assuming we get, at the least:

-Durkon's resurrection and Hilgya not killing him again
-The Order defeating the Exarch
-Durkon reuniting with his mother
-Setup for book 7 (The Order heading for Kraagor's Gate, whatever Team Evil does, etc.)

My first guess on a title was "To Hel With Good Intentions." I thought of another possibility a while back but have since forgotten it.


I Would Do Anything For Loki (But I Won't Do That)?

Valhalla by the Dashboard Light?

[Peelee]

Valhalla by the Dashboard Light?

Undead Ringer for Love?

[KorvinStarmast]

Hel's Angles seems a good name for the book, or even, "A Hel of a Note" or even "The Prodigal Scion Returns"

That, or "The Wondrous Journeys of Captain Bandana!" :smallbiggrin:

[Peelee]

Hel's Angles seems a good name for the book, or even, "A Hel of a Note"

That, or "The Wondrous Journeys of Captain Bandana!" :smallbiggrin:

Thanks for ruining the rock and roll theme, Texas. Couldn't even have pulled out some ZZ Top? Sharp Dressed Fangs? Gimme All Your Bleedin'? Beer Drinkers and Hel Raisers?

[KorvinStarmast]

Beer Drinkers and Hel Raisers?
Ok, I'll go with that one. :smallcool:

[Ruck]

Thanks for ruining the rock and roll theme, Texas. Couldn't even have pulled out some ZZ Top? Sharp Dressed Fangs? Gimme All Your Bleedin'? Beer Drinkers and Hel Raisers?

La Grange, But La Grange Is, I Dunno, Firmament, Let's Say

[Peelee]

Since it's dwarves, we could also go to more hard rock and heavy metal. The Evil that Dwarves Do? Run To The Hel? Sigdi I'm Comin' Home? A Vampiric Touch of Evil?

[Sadsharks]

Let Us Now Praise Famous Death Dwarves?

[Peelee]

Killing After Midnight?

[Ruck]

Ride Thor's Lightning

[Peelee]

Ride Thor's Lightning

For Whom the Hel Tolls? Gimme fyoo, gimme fie, gimme dabajabadah! Don't care if it's the wrong song, that's my favorite Metallica joke.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Given that even with minimal bonus material this is going to be a freaking brick, something related to Tennessee Ernie Ford's Sixteen Tons may be more apropos.

Or maybe "The Vampire Went Down to Firmament".

[Peelee]

Given that even with minimal bonus material this is going to be a freaking brick, something related to Tennessee Ernie Ford's Sixteen Tons may be more apropos.

Or maybe "The Vampire Went Down to Firmament".

Highway to Hel? Killer Queen of the Damned? Gimme Shelter from the Sun? Sympathy for the Devils?

[Ruck]

For Whom the Hel Tolls? Gimme fyoo, gimme fie, gimme dabajabadah! Don't care if it's the wrong song, that's my favorite Metallica joke.

Tougher sell with "Hel Polls For Thee" already as a strip title.

My favorite Metallica joke is Beatallica. Look 'em up if you've never heard of them. I recommend "Everybody's Got a Ticket to Ride Except For Me and My Lightning."

[Ron Miel]

Of Moots And Men.

[Procyonpi]

-The Order defeating the Exarch


Honestly I think there will be a strip or two, tops, and maybe just a throwaway like about this, since it's not really that difficult to imagine how it happens and has no emotional stakes. I do think we will have at least a couple strips more definitively wrapping up the Godsmoot business, though.

Also, while we're at it, which character to y'all think will "write" the preface for book 6? So far all the compilation books have been Order members, and that would leave only Haley, but I honestly think it might be more fun to have Thor or Hilgya do it.

[GooeyChewie]

The party was in an airship, either with The High Priest of Hel or chasing said High Priest for most of the book. My money would be on The High Way to Hel.

[Ruck]

Honestly I think there will be a strip or two, tops, and maybe just a throwaway like about this, since it's not really that difficult to imagine how it happens and has no emotional stakes. I do think we will have at least a couple strips more definitively wrapping up the Godsmoot business, though.

I don't think it has to be long, but given that Durkon believes he needs to warn Roy about some of the Exarch's plans, I think we'll at least get that. In any case, we have the battle with the Exarch / the decision by the Council of Clans, Durkon coming to a resolution with Hilgya, and Durkon reuniting with his family to deal with, all before we leave Dwarven Lands. (And I'd guess we're going to get a decent chunk of strips with Durkon and his mother.)

[Jasdoif]

Highway to Hel? Killer Queen of the Damned? Gimme Shelter from the Sun? Sympathy for the Devils?"To Hel and Back Again" still hasn't lost a peel for me. Durkon Inside? The Gentle Art of Raising Enemies? Peace Sells But Hel's Buying? Earthen Soul? He's (Not Just Un-) Dead, Roy? The Dream is Durkon? Tunnel of Tears?

[Ron Miel]

Hel's Teeth.

[Riftwolf]

Also, what do y'all think Book 6 is going to be called?

No rez for the Wicked.

And I think there's still a final act to come. Just because this threads most powerful villain in terms of d&d is eliminated, doesn't mean things are wrapping up quickly. It could mean the Council of Elders won't be exactly what we think it'll be, and the plot must be resolved... Without character sheets D:

[PirateMonk]

Honestly I think there will be a strip or two, tops, and maybe just a throwaway like about this, since it's not really that difficult to imagine how it happens and has no emotional stakes. I do think we will have at least a couple strips more definitively wrapping up the Godsmoot business, though.

Also, while we're at it, which character to y'all think will "write" the preface for book 6? So far all the compilation books have been Order members, and that would leave only Haley, but I honestly think it might be more fun to have Thor or Hilgya do it.

The emotional stakes are that if they fail, the world gets destroyed and all the dwarves go to Hel. The comic has spent upwards of ten strips on much less significant enemies (for example, the bandits, the ogres, the island orcs, and the frost giants). Plus, we get to see Durkon and Hilgya interacting.

It's definitely weird to have the book's main villain defeated well before the end by a spirit inside his head with one of his lackeys still at large and an imminent threat that probably has to be dealt with before the next book, but it would be even more anticlimactic to dangle that and then wrap it up quickly.

[Gluteus_Maximus]

I'll go with "Low-Wisdom Party" to keep it in a D&D theme. Since Wisdom has to do with knowing/feeling things, it means Roy and everyone besides Belkar felt Durkon was still normal, Belkar knew he wasn't, and then everyone knew he wasn't, and the climax of the book involves 4/7 of the OOTS having low enough Will saves to fall under the effect of the vampires' domination gaze. It also identifies what the party is without Durkon, while being vague enough for the 1-2% very few OOTS-readers who don't look at the online comics. Obviously this could be punned better, but this seems like a likely base to a name to me.

But stuff like "Bat out of Hel" and "Hel's Angels" and "The Prodigal Scion Returns" are all good ones too.

[Procyonpi]

The emotional stakes are that if they fail, the world gets destroyed and all the dwarves go to Hel. The comic has spent upwards of ten strips on much less significant enemies (for example, the bandits, the ogres, the island orcs, and the frost giants). Plus, we get to see Durkon and Hilgya interacting.

Not the point. Nobody really cares that much about the Exarch, and it's easy to see how the Order could defeat him. The fact that it might be like a 4 hour gaming session if this were an actual DnD campaign doesn't mean that the story is going to choose to dwell on it after the climax of the book.

[martianmister]

Yes. Hel's Angels sounds good.

[PirateMonk]

Not the point. Nobody really cares that much about the Exarch, and it's easy to see how the Order could defeat him. The fact that it might be like a 4 hour gaming session if this were an actual DnD campaign doesn't mean that the story is going to choose to dwell on it after the climax of the book.

My argument was about narrative concerns, not game mechanics. There would be no point in having the Exarch outlive the rest of the vampires and go off to put the plan into motion, then go "wait, never mind" and kill him off in a strip or two.

Also, if it's easy for you to see how the Order could defeat him, it would also be easy for Hel and Durkula, and they would devise countermeasures (as Durkon explicitly said they did in 1134). They have been very good at planning for the obvious, losing only when someone manages to surprise them (Roy unlocking his sword's abilities, Hermod voting No, Hilgya showing up, Durkon's memory trick). Admittedly, Durkula seems to think in 1111 that it's very important to kill the Order before the council vote, and the plans were made when they thought the Order would have one low-level cleric, not two high-level ones, but given that Durkon still seems concerned, I don't see it being a complete non-issue.

[woweedd]

I'm betting there's still a lot left to go. Durkon's resurrection, and recoking with Hilgya, the final battle against Gontor*, and, of course, Durkon re-uniting with his mother and family. Probably healing her arm.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Probably healing her arm.

That would mean her arm is no longer holding on. Somehow, I don't think she wants that.

Grey Wolf

[KorvinStarmast]

The party was in an airship, either with The High Priest of Hel or chasing said High Priest for most of the book. My money would be on The High Way to Hel. *golf clap* And for those of us somewhat old, a plausible reference to "High Road to China" .... a film with flying and high mountains.
(As much RomCom as adventure movie; Tom Selleck Bess Armstrong)

[D.One]

The party was in an airship, either with The High Priest of Hel or chasing said High Priest for most of the book. My money would be on The High Way to Hel.

That's the spirit! :smallcool:

[Ruck]

One reason I like "To Hel With Good Intentions" is that I think "good intentions" both references Hurak's decision to exile Durkon and makes the saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" literal in this case.

[Gluteus_Maximus]

That would mean her arm is no longer holding on. Somehow, I don't think she wants that.

Grey Wolf

Last I checked Regenerate doesn't destroy the detached body part, wherever it is. It just makes a new one and fixes the injury. Not to mention their bodies have no doubt decomposed over the 55 years Durkon's been alive and their hands fell out of holding position

[Emanick]

Last I checked Regenerate doesn't destroy the detached body part, wherever it is. It just makes a new one and fixes the injury. Not to mention their bodies have no doubt decomposed over the 55 years Durkon's been alive and their hands fell out of holding position

All true, but I assume that, at this point, it's the symbolism that Sigdi cares about.

In theory, I can see her agreeing to let Durkon regenerate her hand as part of a process of finally "moving on." In practice, she seemed so strongly committed to the memory of her late husband that I really doubt that's the way the story is going to go.

One other thing seems likely: neither Sigdi nor Tenrin will be frequenting the Tavern of Infinite One-Night Stands, should Valhalla happen to have one off to the side of the mead hall.

[Knaight]

The emotional stakes are that if they fail, the world gets destroyed and all the dwarves go to Hel. The comic has spent upwards of ten strips on much less significant enemies (for example, the bandits, the ogres, the island orcs, and the frost giants). Plus, we get to see Durkon and Hilgya interacting.

The emotional context, on the other hand, is the tail end of a denouement, following the character growth induced by Durkon's vampirization and betrayal settling, where currently we're seeing Durkon himself. Those much less significant enemies tended to be in different contexts. The bandits and island orcs were both on rising portions of an arc, where conflicts were being introduced for later use. The frost giants meanwhile fit well as a major setback while also being central to building up character arcs for book specific side characters (Andi and Bandana), all while the primary threat loomed and the emotional stakes remained unanswered.

Also those are just conventional stakes, not emotional stakes - which is pretty critical here, as the emotional stakes were much higher earlier and usually have more to do with scene length.

[Quebbster]

There's still some loose threads to tie up Before the story can move on, I Think.
To compare it to Blood runs in the Family, I Think Durkula's Death was the equivalent of blowing up Girard's Gate - it was the big reason for this part of the story, but then a lot of other stuff happened to resolve the conflicts set up earlier in the story.

[RatElemental]

I don't think Sigdi would turn down a regeneration. Her stated reason for not having gotten one already was money. I admit that that may have been a cover for Durkon, but I have a few reasons I think she'd go through with it:

She knows that one of Durkon's motivating factors for joining the church in the first place was to be able to do exactly this, and the day he became ordained was one of the proudest in her life. Even if she'd rather not, she might do it for Durkon's sake.

Additionally Durkon is, in a sense, the only memento she has left of Tenrin. She might see it as fitting that she get her arm back after all these years thanks to the life she created with the man she gave it up for in the first place.

[martianmister]

In that case, wouldn't her friends already regenerate it?

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I don’t think there’s a ton left to go—mostly just wrapping up the Godsmoot and solving potential conflicts between Hilgya and Durkon.

As for titles, the low-hanging fruit of Highway to Hel has been suggested already, so I got nothing. :smalltongue:

[Fyraltari]

In that case, wouldn't her friends already regenerate it?

Who do you mean?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Who do you mean?

Presumably the one with the silver mines could pay for it, but of course it is not a valid argument, because Sigdi won't take any gifts from them.


Last I checked Regenerate doesn't destroy the detached body part, wherever it is. It just makes a new one and fixes the injury. Not to mention their bodies have no doubt decomposed over the 55 years Durkon's been alive and their hands fell out of holding position
Last I checked that has nothing to do with the emotional meaning of how she lost her arm.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

Last I checked that has nothing to do with the emotional meaning of how she lost her arm.

Grey Wolf

To be fair, she never said she still holding on. She said she never let go. That would still hold true if she got her arm Regen'd. Whether she believes that is a different story.

[Turin_19]

Honestly I think there will be a strip or two, tops, and maybe just a throwaway like about this, since it's not really that difficult to imagine how it happens and has no emotional stakes. I do think we will have at least a couple strips more definitively wrapping up the Godsmoot business, though.

Also, while we're at it, which character to y'all think will "write" the preface for book 6? So far all the compilation books have been Order members, and that would leave only Haley, but I honestly think it might be more fun to have Thor or Hilgya do it.

I disagree. The main villain of this book is Hel. Alhough the main struggle was between Durkon-original-recipe and Durkon*, she is still in the game and needs to be seen as a real threat. I even think we will still see the Council of Elders vote 'Yes' and a lot going on after that.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I disagree. The main villain of this book is Hel. Alhough the main struggle was between Durkon-original-recipe and Durkon*, she is still in the game and needs to be seen as a real threat. I even think we will still see the Council of Elders vote 'Yes' and a lot going on after that.

No, the main villain was Greg. He drove the action, was the one characters interacted with, etc. Other than the Giant's ambush, Hel has been little better than a McGuffin - a reason why Greg does what he does to oppose the main characters.

Grey Wolf

[martianmister]

Who do you mean?

You don't know Sigdi's friends?

Presumably the one with the silver mines could pay for it, but of course it is not a valid argument, because Sigdi won't take any gifts from them.

She and her son already took many things from them. And it would be a repayment, not gift.

[Fyraltari]

You don't know Sigdi's friends?
None of them have magical powers, hence the confusion.

She and her son already took many things from them. And it would be a repayment, not gift.

I don't think Shirra has a son.
Edit: Oh, you meant Sigdi and her son.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

She and her son already took many things from them.
[citation needed]


And it would be a repayment, not gift.
Sigdi most definitely does not share your views. And its her opinion, not yours, that counts.


None of them have magical powers, hence the confusion.
I mean, there's the bard, but I don't think they get Regen.

Grey Wolf

[D.One]

I believe Durkon would want to do the Regeneration, and also think she might accept, if only because he has always said one of his goals as Cleric was to be able to regenerate her arm.

Time, however, might be a problem. He probably didn't have Regenerate prepared, and they may be unable to wait one more day before leaving to the North Pole.

[Fyraltari]

Time, however, might be a problem. He probably didn't have Regenerate prepared, and they may be unable to wait one more day before leaving to the North Pole.

I remain confident that this book will Durkon's family and the Order attending one of Sigdi's weekly parties.
I mean, come on. You're allowed one day off rest with your loved ones when you've just come back from the dead and decade-long exile and have saved the world once the very same day. Little known church by-law.

[Ruck]

Presumably the one with the silver mines could pay for it, but of course it is not a valid argument, because Sigdi won't take any gifts from them.

She will, even if she has to be pressed a bit to:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1089.html

It seems the companions feel similarly strongly about taking repayment from her.

All that said, we haven't actually seen Sidgi in what, twenty years? It's entirely possible she did have her arm regenerated in the meantime, although my money would be on Durkon doing it.

[martianmister]

[citation needed]

"Aunt Shirra takin' me ta buy tha hammer n' shield ta practice wit." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1088.html)

"That dress is a gift from me to you, and my honor will be deeply insulted if you try to give me money for it later." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1089.html)

"Mebbe I c'n borrow from Kandro 'til Pension Day comes..." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0963.html)


Sigdi most definitely does not share your views. And its her opinion, not yours, that counts.

10th panel. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1089.html)

[Peelee]

"Aunt Shirra takin' me ta buy tha hammer n' shield ta practice wit." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1088.html)
Sounds like Durkon is buying it and Shirra is just going with.

"Mebbe I c'n borrow from Kandro 'til Pension Day comes..." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0963.html)
Sounds like she plans to return the money.

[martianmister]

Sounds like Durkon is buying it and Shirra is just going with.

I highly doubt that. Why would he thank her?


Sounds like she plans to return the money.

She still took it.

[Peelee]

I highly doubt that. Why would he thank her?



She still took it.

Maybe his mom couldn't take him for whatever reason. It was a big point in his life, so if his mom couldn't go he'd be very appreciative of Shirra.

Also, yeah, she still took it. What's your point? It's still a loan.

[Ornithologist]

How about "Mad as Hel, and not going to Fake it anymore."

[Vendanna]

Of Moots And Men.

"The Point is moot." :3

[monomer]

Admittedly, Durkula seems to think in 1111 that it's very important to kill the Order before the council vote, and the plans were made when they thought the Order would have one low-level cleric, not two high-level ones, but given that Durkon still seems concerned, I don't see it being a complete non-issue.

How effective is Durkon going to be after he is resurrected? He loses one level, making him Level 13 (Class Level and Geekery thread has him currently at 14), which isn't a huge, but he loses a bunch of spell slots. He also only has the prepared spells he had left when he died, which was after using a bunch to solve the Draketooth mystery, and a fairly lengthy battle with Tarquin, Malack, and the Linear Guild. That left him with no spells above 4th Level except for Thor's Might and Summon Deva (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0875.html), which I guess isn't nothing, but not a huge amount of utility.

[Fyraltari]

How effective is Durkon going to be after he is resurrected? He loses one level, making him Level 13 (Class Level and Geekery thread has him currently at 14), which isn't a huge, but he loses a bunch of spell slots. He also only has the prepared spells he had left when he died, which was after using a bunch to solve the Draketooth mystery, and a fairly lengthy battle with Tarquin, Malack, and the Linear Guild. That left him with no spells above 4th Level except for Thor's Might and Summon Deva (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0875.html), which I guess isn't nothing, but not a huge amount of utility.

I tink Durkon has the spells Durkon#2 had left at the time of dusting, since Durkon# had a few spells in the pyramid.

[martianmister]

Maybe his mom couldn't take him for whatever reason. It was a big point in his life, so if his mom couldn't go he'd be very appreciative of Shirra.

Do you really believe that?

Also, yeah, she still took it. What's your point? It's still a loan.

My statement was She and her son already took many things from them. What's your point?

[Peelee]

My statement was She and her son already took many things from them. What's your point?

Your statement was she and her son took gifts from them, more precisely:



Presumably the one with the silver mines could pay for it, but of course it is not a valid argument, because Sigdi won't take any gifts from them.

Grey WolfShe and her son already took many things from them. And it would be a repayment, not gift.Sigdi most definitely does not share your views. And its her opinion, not yours, that counts.

Grey Wolf

[martianmister]

Your statement was she and her son took gifts from them, more precisely:

No. I never said that. I even said to Grey Wolf that it shouldn't be treated as a gift.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

No. I never said that. I even said to Grey Wolf that it shouldn't be treated as a gift.

Then it is even more obviously wrong, because she never has had the money to pay for it herself, and thus won't take it from her friends because she wouldn't be able to repay them.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

No. I never said that. I even said to Grey Wolf that it shouldn't be treated as a gift.

Dude, I directly quoted you. You can click on it and go straight back to your comment. You said that. And I quoted GW's response to your claiming it wouldn't be a gift. You're literally gaslighting right now (hilariously poorly, but still).

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Dude, I directly quoted you. You can click on it and go straight back to your comment. You said that. And I quoted GW's response to your claiming it wouldn't be a gift. You're literally gaslighting right now (hilariously poorly, but still).

They also seem to be using a definition for "many" that I doubt I share.

Grey Wolf

[Aveline]

As for Shirra buying Durkon's shield and hammer: Sigdi may refuse gifts given to her, but that doesn't mean she would necessarily refuse gifts given to Durkon. Would she even have the right? As for the dress: Sigdi obviously intended to pay for the dress, and it took a lot of convincing before she accepted it as a gift. As for borrowing from Kandro: Sigdi obviously intended for it to be a loan, and for that matter, it's not even certain she did borrow from Kandro in the end.

So that's just one gift she's canonically accepted, and it took an amount of convincing disproportionate to its cost and significance.

As for accepting a Regeneration: it seems to me that Sigdi refuses gifts not for the sake of refusing gifts, but for the sake of not unduly burdening anyone (for Sigdi's personal sense of "undue"). As far as I'm concerned, she's already proven that if she had access to a Regeneration spell, she would insist that the material resources be used to cast Raise Dead instead.


EDIT: I had gotten the impression from #1129 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1129.html) that Regenerate cost diamonds, but I checked the SRD and it does not (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/regenerate.htm). My general point, though, is that Sigdi would feel that the efforts of casting Regenerate could be better spent elsewhere.

[woweedd]

As for Shirra buying Durkon's shield and hammer: Sigdi may refuse gifts given to her, but that doesn't mean she would necessarily refuse gifts given to Durkon. Would she even have the right? As for the dress: Sigdi obviously intended to pay for the dress, and it took a lot of convincing before she accepted it as a gift. As for borrowing from Kandro: Sigdi obviously intended for it to be a loan, and for that matter, it's not even certain she did borrow from Kandro in the end.

So that's just one gift she's canonically accepted, and it took an amount of convincing disproportionate to its cost and significance.

As for accepting a Regeneration: it seems to me that Sigdi refuses gifts not for the sake of refusing gifts, but for the sake of not unduly burdening anyone (for Sigdi's personal sense of "undue"). As far as I'm concerned, she's already proven that if she had access to a Regeneration spell, she would insist that the material resources be used to cast Raise Dead instead.
I don't think they ahve the same amterial component. Plus, i'm theorizing her regeneration as a sort of "re-payment" from Durkon, for maikng him the outstanding Dwarf he is today.

[Aveline]

I don't think they ahve the same amterial component. Plus, i'm theorizing her regeneration as a sort of "re-payment" from Durkon, for maikng him the outstanding Dwarf he is today.

They don't have the same material component; I was mistaken.

[D.One]

There's no cost, and I think she might accept a regeneration cast by her son, given how important being able to do so is for him. That said, as I've stated before, I think maybe the regeneration will be left for the epilogue after book 7, due to the Order having to leave dwarven lands ASAP to deal with Kraagor's Gate.

[Aveline]

There's no cost, and I think she might accept a regeneration cast by her son, given how important being able to do so is for him. That said, as I've stated before, I think maybe the regeneration will be left for the epilogue after book 7, due to the Order having to leave dwarven lands ASAP to deal with Kraagor's Gate.

Then I could see Sigdi eventually accepting a Regeneration as a gift from her to him.

[RatElemental]

Then I could see Sigdi eventually accepting a Regeneration as a gift from her to him.

Like I pointed out, I think she would even if she would rather not, for Durkon's sake. I do think it might make enough sense to her that it'd be 'right' to accept the gift of her arm back from her son, the only thing left of the man she lost her arm for (beard lock notwithstanding).

[Grey Watcher]

It, sadly, does not fit the rock and roll theme we have going, but I have to share this one:

Will No One Deliver Me from This Turbulent Priest?

[Peelee]

It, sadly, does not fit the rock and roll theme we have going, but I have to share this one:

Will No One Deliver Me from This Turbulent Priest?

Ooooh, I like that one.

Also, it will fit the rock & roll theme once my Chuck Berry tribute band shoehorn that into our nu-retro rearrangement of Maybelline. Rock's really changed...

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Will No One Deliver Me from This Turbulent Priest?

"Odin's Throne is Well Worth a Mass"

[Gluteus_Maximus]

I think, given everything on this thread, "The High Way To Hel" is most likely.

[nolongeralurker]

I don't think Shirra has a son.
Edit: Oh, you meant Sigdi and her son.

For the record, Shirra actually has two sons.

(And since I'm here: I agree with those who think Durkon will regenerate Sigdi's arm (maybe paid for by the Dinner Party as people have said before), and that the Order will attend this evening's Dinner, it being Wednesday. Agree that we'll see Team Evil once more because something changes for them, but I don't think it'll be finding Kraagor's Gate. To me it seems too soon for that, though I suppose it's possible.)

[Aveline]

Maybe Durkon will be resurrected at the dinner party. The dwarf who repeated Odin's prophecy to the Order could lead them to Sigdi, and it could be Sigdi who convinces Hilgya to resurrect him.

Or a plot-critical scene about some important vote could force his resurrection in the wee hours of Wednesday morning.

[Kish]

(And since I'm here: I agree with those who think Durkon will regenerate Sigdi's arm (maybe paid for by the Dinner Party as people have said before)
I am quite certain Durkon will not be charging anyone to cast Regenerate on his mother's arm.

[goodpeople25]

I am quite certain Durkon will not be charging anyone to cast Regenerate on his mother's arm.
Well sure a random encounter or the like at that point in the story is unlikely but cmon it could happen. It's certainly more likely then Durkon demanding payment to cast Regenerate for his mom or something like that. :smallwink:

[Aveline]

Now that I know Regenerate has no material cost, I can think of just one way Sigdi refuses: by telling Durkon he needs to keep all of his spell slots for when he saves the world.

Edit: Unless she's dead. :(

[Kish]

It strikes me as very unlikely that anyone will treat "you can't use one of your seventh-level spell slots today" as a compelling argument.

Greg used Regenerate casually (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0939.html) to fix a broken bone.

[Aveline]

It strikes me as very unlikely that anyone will treat "you can't use one of your seventh-level spell slots today" as a compelling argument.

Greg used Regenerate casually (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0939.html) to fix a broken bone.

It's going to be a very big day, isn't it? Don't they plan on immediately departing for Kraagor's Tomb? If "Durkon won't be able to count on preparing spells again before needing them" is required for this outcome, well, I still find that contrivance believable.

[Kish]

Did the Order get some means of instantaneous transport between "using the Mechane to get here" and now, somehow?

Even if they did, I'll venture that "they're going to plan to go into the final battle with Xykon with multiple members of the Order Constitution drained and Vaarsuvius level drained, even if they had some way of getting there instantly" is a big no.

[Aveline]

I haven't seen serious consequences for constitution damage or negative levels in a very long time, exept for Belkar's anemia, which I presumed would work itself out in about a day. Does it not work that way?

[Kish]

It does not. Constitution drain is permanent unless someone casts Restoration on you. Negative levels require a Fortitude save per negative level (with the penalty imposed by however many negative levels you have, and a reduced Fortitude save if you have less Constitution than you did yesterday) after 24 hours; for each Fortitude save you fail, you lose an actual experience level, unless someone casts Restoration on you before 24 hours are up (thus removing all the negative levels).

In other words, everyone in the Order, except for Durkon, needs Restoration spells, and the consequences for not getting them would be dire.

Also, you've exactly reversed what you're arguing, from "there's no time for Durkon to get his spell back" to "their current penalties will work themselves out in about a day so they'll just ignore them." Know what works itself out in a day? Having used a seventh-level spell slot.

[Aveline]

It does not. Constitution drain is permanent unless someone casts Restoration on you. Negative levels require a Fortitude save per negative level (with the penalty imposed by however many negative levels you have, and a reduced Fortitude save if you have less Constitution than you did yesterday) after 24 hours; for each Fortitude save you have, you lose an actual experience level, unless someone casts Restoration on you before 24 hours are up (thus removing all the negative levels).

In other words, everyone in the Order, except for Durkon, needs Restoration spells, and the consequences for not getting them would be dire.

Also, you've exactly reversed what you're arguing, from "there's no time for Durkon to get his spell back" to "their current penalties will work themselves out in about a day so they'll just ignore them." Know what works itself out in a day? Having used a seventh-level spell slot.

Okay, I believe you about the Order desperately needing heals. But Hilgya could do that herself. If Durkon is resurrected after the time he would prepare spells - which is possible - would he be able to have spells at all that day? Would he have whatever he had left after fighting Malack?

From the length of time they've been travelling, Kraagor's Tomb just doesn't seem that far out. We all know the Mechane flies at inconsistent speeds, and the Order isn't able to set the schedule on when Xykon needs thwarting. I think they could still have to confront Xykon before the next sunrise, Roy could raise the possibility in Sigdi's presence, and Sigdi could decline because her well-being is irrelevant to their battles.

And for the record, when I said "about a day", I was imagining a gradual process over the same day, before the morning comes. Real live humans replenish their blood just fine as long as they don't lose too much.

[Kish]

Okay, I believe you about the Order desperately needing heals. But Hilgya could do that herself. If Durkon is resurrected after the time he would prepare spells - which is possible - would he be able to have spells at all that day? Would he have whatever he had left after fighting Malack?

From the length of time they've been travelling, Kraagor's Tomb just doesn't seem that far out.

The Order wasn't flying to Kraagor's Tomb.

Here.

A thousand gold says the Order will not confront Xykon between Greg being destroyed and the immediately following dawn, nor will they act in any way based on expectations that they will.

[Aveline]

The Order wasn't flying to Kraagor's Tomb.

Please forgive me if I'm forgetting something critical, but... is that a fact? Their teleportation orb got smashed, they need a plan B, the Mechane is handy, and the crew is amicable.


Here.

A thousand gold says the Order will not confront Xykon between Greg being destroyed and the immediately following dawn, nor will they act in any way based on expectations that they will.

It could be before the second dawn if Durkon isn't resurrected before the daily deadline for preparing spells, barring a rule that gives him spells outright.

No bet either way. I'm only arguing for the logistical plausibility of this chain of events. The possibilities are so wide because we happen to not know what time it is in-comic.

[KorvinStarmast]

I think they could still have to confront Xykon before the next sunrise, I am not sure that I can find a point in the story, before they got to the godsmoot, where Roy defined a number of days necessary to get to the last gate. He surely wanted to hurry, since Xykon and RedCloak teleported out near the end of BRitF.

Given the information being passed to the Order from O'Chul and Lien via sending, the time line to doomsday (what with the "pick a door, any door" problem Xykon and company face) is unclear. (I may have missed something in comic, though, so hopefully one of the more sharp eyed readers will have picked up on it).

[Kish]

The Order wasn't flying to Kraagor's Tomb, being that they were flying to Durkon's homeland to stop Greg from rigging the Council vote. Thus the length of time they've been traveling does not translate to "how close they are to Kraagor's Tomb."

[Aveline]

I am not sure that I can find a point in the story, before they got to the godsmoot, where Roy defined a number of days necessary to get to the last gate. He surely wanted to hurry, since Xykon and RedCloak teleported out near the end of BRitF.

Given the information being passed to the Order from O'Chul and Lien via sending, the time line to doomsday (what with the "pick a door, any door" problem Xykon and company face) is unclear. (I may have missed something in comic, though, so hopefully one of the more sharp eyed readers will have picked up on it).

Julio suggested a travel time in #937 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0937.html). It was a week and a half since then before Durkon's soul was freed. (Correction: It were only aboot a week. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1136.html))


The Order wasn't flying to Kraagor's Tomb, being that they were flying to Durkon's homeland to stop Greg from rigging the Council vote. Thus the length of time they've been traveling does not translate to "how close they are to Kraagor's Tomb."

They were heading there initially. IIRC, neither Tinkertown, nor Zenith Peak, nor Firmament were very far out of the way.

[Jasdoif]

They were heading there initially. IIRC, neither Tinkertown, nor Zenith Peak, nor Firmament were very far out of the way.That's not how it looks to me. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1044.html)

[Aveline]

That's not how it looks to me. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1044.html)

It looks that way to me if they came from the southwest, which they did.

[Fyraltari]

Oona's tribe came to Monster Hollow fleeing the "dwarves" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1039.html).
One dwarven soldier (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1144.html) who worshipped at the same temple as future High Priestess Rubyrock died fighting a bugbear wearing gear similar to Oona's.

Kraagor's Tomb is (relatively) close to Firmament. Like maybe a day or two of flying?

The Order knows Xykon is "being delayed by Kraagor's tomb" (www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1050.html), an info they got a few hours before fighting the vampires.

Assuming this is the same day (and since Thor would have told Durkon if Hel's plot were either thwarted or successful, I am sure it is), I Don't find it unreasonable that the order will spend the rest of the day/night in Firmament to:

1) Get some much needed rest and healing.
2) Letting Durkon catch up with family and friends. (Party at Sgdi's house!)
3) Getting the Mechane repaired again. Possibly buying new ballistas and hiring new crewmembers to replace the losses.

Being in hurry doesn't mean you must never stop. It means you mustn't stop too long.

[Jasdoif]

They were heading there initially. IIRC, neither Tinkertown, nor Zenith Peak, nor Firmament were very far out of the way.That's not how it looks to me. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1044.html)It looks that way to me if they came from the southwest, which they did.Hm. Looks to me like if you were trying to get to the North Pole from the south-west, you'd go to the right and travel through the pass to near Bartervault, and then head North; because the gentle angular offset between that and the direct route (as in, the "pretend mountains didn't exist" measurement) means you're still making good headway towards your destination...as opposed to heading to a spot like Firmament where the sharper angle is adding a lot more distance you'll have to recover, which is why I think it's "out of the way".

[Gluteus_Maximus]

Hm. Looks to me like if you were trying to get to the North Pole from the south-west, you'd go to the right and travel through the pass to near Bartervault, and then head North; because the gentle angular offset between that and the direct route (as in, the "pretend mountains didn't exist" measurement) means you're still making good headway towards your destination...as opposed to heading to a spot like Firmament where the sharper angle is adding a lot more distance you'll have to recover, which is why I think it's "out of the way".

No, note where the ocean is on the map. They came from the direction aveline suggested; Zenith Peak, Passage Pass, and Firmament are pretty much straight ahead on their path, if you think about the location of the northern continent in relation to the western.

[Jasdoif]

Hm. Looks to me like if you were trying to get to the North Pole from the south-west, you'd go to the right and travel through the pass to near Bartervault, and then head North; because the gentle angular offset between that and the direct route (as in, the "pretend mountains didn't exist" measurement) means you're still making good headway towards your destination...as opposed to heading to a spot like Firmament where the sharper angle is adding a lot more distance you'll have to recover, which is why I think it's "out of the way".No, note where the ocean is on the map. They came from the direction aveline suggested; Zenith Peak, Passage Pass, and Firmament are pretty much straight ahead on their path, if you think about the location of the northern continent in relation to the western.You may notice that the North Pole is not near that path.

[Aveline]

You may notice that the North Pole is not near that path.

Firmament is not that much farther from the North Pole than Bartervault. At most, it's 50% further. Plus, Firmament strikes me as closer to Tinkertown than Bartervault is. It may be out of the way, but not very much so. I honestly think it's a wash.


Either way, the terrain is smooth from here out, and I don't think it's a stretch for the Mechane to make the distance between sunup and sundown.


Oona's tribe came to Monster Hollow fleeing the "dwarves" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1039.html).
One dwarven soldier (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1144.html) who worshipped at the same temple as future High Priestess Rubyrock died fighting a bugbear wearing gear similar to Oona's.

Kraagor's Tomb is (relatively) close to Firmament. Like maybe a day or two of flying?

The Order knows Xykon is "being delayed by Kraagor's tomb" (www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1050.html), an info they got a few hours before fighting the vampires.

Assuming this is the same day (and since Thor would have told Durkon if Hel's plot were either thwarted or successful, I am sure it is), I Don't find it unreasonable that the order will spend the rest of the day/night in Firmament to:

1) Get some much needed rest and healing.
2) Letting Durkon catch up with family and friends. (Party at Sgdi's house!)
3) Getting the Mechane repaired again. Possibly buying new ballistas and hiring new crewmembers to replace the losses.

Being in hurry doesn't mean you must never stop. It means you mustn't stop too long.

Fair points. I'm not 100% sure Thor would have told us that the Godsmoot had ended, though. It's not critical information that only the gods could provide. In fact, Veldrina has this explicit task, assuming Hel fails. What's actually unlikely is that Gontor's plans get crushed offscreen - but as was hinted at the Godsmoot, the Council of Clans' procedures can take a long time.

[Peelee]

Firmament is not that much farther from the North Pole than Bartervault. At most, it's 50% further. Plus, Firmament strikes me as closer to Tinkertown than Bartervault is.

Florida strikes me as closer to Africa than Maine is, and yet. Maps are fun.

[Joerg]

If that map is a Mercator projection (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercator_projection), it distorts east-west distance in the north. Then it would be much better to turn east in the north than in the south (in fact, it's best to never turn east at all and just continue north), meaning that the fastest way from Zenith Peak to the north pole is over Firmament.

[Fyraltari]

Fair points. I'm not 100% sure Thor would have told us that the Godsmoot had ended, though. It's not critical information that only the gods could provide. In fact, Veldrina has this explicit task, assuming Hel fails. What's actually unlikely is that Gontor's plans get crushed offscreen - but as was hinted at the Godsmoot, the Council of Clans' procedures can take a long time.

:durkon: I dinnae (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1146.html) suppose ye could just pop down thar an' smash `em wit yer holy hammer?
https://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Thor_zpsmx99jl7i.png No need, your friends dealt with them alredy./Actually just forget about that, Moot's over Hel won, we're blowing the world up. This blows.

[martianmister]

Dude, I directly quoted you. You can click on it and go straight back to your comment. You said that. And I quoted GW's response to your claiming it wouldn't be a gift. You're literally gaslighting right now (hilariously poorly, but still).

I'm not sure what you're trying to accoplish here, but that's obviously not true. Not only I didn't say that, I even said that it shouldn't be treated as a gift. Everyone can check my post to see that. In fact GW was the one who bring up "gift" thing.

[Jasdoif]

If that map is a Mercator projection (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercator_projection), it distorts east-west distance in the north.It couldn't show the North Pole as a point like the map does, though; the distortion would be infinite at that point. This whole exercise would be a great deal easier if the map included latitude and longitude lines....I've been operating on the assumption that this is a reference to fantasy maps frequently using a simple grid for any scale, planet curvature be damned.


Firmament is not that much farther from the North Pole than Bartervault. At most, it's 50% further. Plus, Firmament strikes me as closer to Tinkertown than Bartervault is. It may be out of the way, but not very much so. I honestly think it's a wash.Hm. Okay, that's fair; let me take some measurements....

Looks like Firmament<->NorthPole is 25% longer than Bartervault<->NorthPole. Also like overall distance is comparable between "North Pole by way of Firmament" and "North Pole by way of Bartervault" measured from that farthest hill in the lower-left...which, if I rotate the map so the labels align with east-west (another fantasy map thing), is on the direct south-by-southwest line from Zenith Peak, which Tinkertown presumably lies along (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0987.html), outside the map boundaries.

I would like to change my answer to "the map mocks me with its lack of navigational lines".

[Aveline]

It couldn't show the North Pole as a point like the map does, though; the distortion would be infinite at that point. This whole exercise would be a great deal easier if the map included latitude and longitude lines....I've been operating on the assumption that this is a reference to fantasy maps frequently using a simple grid for any scale, planet curvature be damned.

A couple of notes about the map's projection (and a thank-you to Joerg for bringing up this important detail)

Any planar projection could be projected from somewhere other than the geological poles. Our map doesn't have to be heavily distorted anywhere on the page just because it's a projection.
The North Pole might not actually be located at the north pole.

Bit of a toss-up. So you could still be right, Jasdoif.

[Gorm_the_DBA]

Bit of a toss-up. So you could still be right, Jasdoif.

Of course, what everyone is forgetting is that the Mechane is enchanted to always arrive at the most dramatic moment possible.

so, I guarantee that if the Order takes an extra day to recharge and recoup their losses, the tomb will have an extra hole to discourage Xykon and etc,.

On the other hand, if the Order rushes and goes into battle half prepared, the tomb gets defeated that very same day.

[D.One]

Well, I'm 100% that they didn't, wouldn't and won't be passing through Nottinstory (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1044.html).

[nolongeralurker]

I am quite certain Durkon will not be charging anyone to cast Regenerate on his mother's arm.


Well sure a random encounter or the like at that point in the story is unlikely but cmon it could happen. It's certainly more likely then Durkon demanding payment to cast Regenerate for his mom or something like that. :smallwink:

Facepalming because I just reread what I wrote and realized I mixed up Sigdi's arm regeneration and Durkon's resurrection in my mind. Durkon's resurrection is what people thought the Dinner Party would pay for.

I would blame this on my being tired because I was posting in the middle of the night, but... it was in the middle of the afternoon. Oh well.