Optimizing Lightning Lure?

[Citadel97501]

Hello all, I was just wondering if anyone has found additional ways to optimize Lightning Lure, as its one of my favorite cantrips as it auto hits regardless of saving throws, and or attack rolls. Currently the only current cool tricks I can see with it are as follows, although most of these ignore the pull affect it already does since I am working to make this absolutely reliable.

Classes
Tempest Cleric 6: Knockback Tricks & Spirit Guardians
-Auto hitting lightning damage that also triggers pushes without a save anything smaller than huge, this seems even more fun with Spirit Guardians although this would be truly incredible if you could knock them down with this lightning damage, as well as back. SP is difficult terrain, + the knockdown costing 1/2 your movement, would likely prevent them from ever fighting you.

-30 movement, 15 for standing up, Difficult terrain makes that 8, 10' knock back so they just failed to get close to swing.

Draconic Sorcerer 6: Damage increases by Charisma if you choose electricity. This also provides you access to Twin Spells or one of the other meta-magic types such as quicken.

Glamour Bard 6: Command as a bonus action every turn for 1 minute. Stupidly powerful with the Tempest cleric LL tricks although that does provide a saving throw.

Paladin with Oath of Conques 6t: Fear tricks abound & doesn't necessarily require concentration, this will work terrifyingly well due to 0' out movement with his aura

Feats
Elemental Adept: Ignore an already rare damage resistance, drop immunity to lightning down to normal resistance and your damage is set to 2 rather than 1...

Warcaster: Automatic Hits during reactions that trigger attacks of opportunity. Triggers well with the Tempest Cleric above...

[Eragon123]

Well, you need to pull it in so it does get a strength saving throw. even if it was already within 5 feet of you it needs to actually be pulled for the damage to take effect.

[LudicSavant]

Hello all, I was just wondering if anyone has found additional ways to optimize Lightning Lure, as its one of my favorite cantrips as it auto hits regardless of saving throws, and or attack rolls.

It does what now? It gives enemies a saving throw.


You create a lash of lightning energy that strikes at one creature of your choice that you can see within range. The target must succeed on a Strength saving throw or be pulled up to 10 feet in a straight line toward you and then take 1d8 lightning damage if it is within 5 feet of you.

[xyianth]

I think the OP is incorrectly interpreting it as doing damage so long as the target is within 5'. (so pulled towards you on a failed save, but if the target started 5' away the save doesn't matter) This is not the way it works however, as failing the save is required for the cantrip to deal damage.

This is how you should parse the cantrip's effects:
The target must succeed on a Strength saving throw or [(be pulled up to 10 feet in a straight line toward you) and then (take 1d8 lightning damage if it is within 5 feet of you)].

If the target doesn't fail the save, no damage is dealt.

That said, you can optimize around this by stacking damage-aura effects on you (spirit guardians, cloak of flies, etc...) and lightning damage rider effects. (tempest cleric's thunderbolt strike, sea sorcerer's curse of the sea, etc...)

[Citadel97501]

This cantrip doesn't require the pull, to do damage unless it has been errata'd heavily. The Sword Coast book says if it is next to you after the pull, then they are hit. Just because they made a save or started so close there is no need for a pull doesn't mean it didn't happen, this makes it 100% accurate.

[Eragon123]

You create a lash of lightning energy that strikes at one creature of your choice that you can see within range.
The target must succeed on a Strength saving throw or be pulled up to 10 feet in a straight line toward you and then take 1d8 lightning damage if it is within 5 feet of you.


This is the exact wording as far as I can tell. So if they succeed on the save they don't take damage as the phrase "and then" implies that the following phrase only follows the pull which only happens if they failed the save.

[stoutstien]

This cantrip doesn't require the pull, to do damage unless it has been errata'd heavily. The Sword Coast book says if it is next to you after the pull, then they are hit. Just because they made a save or started so close there is no need for a pull doesn't mean it didn't happen, this makes it 100% accurate.
Key word after the pull. So no pull no damage. Key wording is in the last line.
If this pull bring it within 5 feet of you.

If they meant for auto damage it would say
After you cast this spell the target takes x damage if they are within 5 feet

[Citadel97501]

Arg, I have been doing it wrong for a while as I could have swore there was a comma there which would have changed the meaning to my interpretation.

Well going back to the main gist of this style of play, are there any other options I am missing to improve the lightning cantrips such as Lightning Lure or Shocking Grasp? I am looking for a reason to avoid Booming Blade, or Green Flame Blade on my next character?

[Laserlight]

Shocking Grasp gives you advantage if the target is in metal armor, although whether that's useful depends on what you usually fight.
BB is popular for a reason.

[stoutstien]

Arg, I have been doing it wrong for a while as I could have swore there was a comma there which would have changed the meaning to my interpretation.

Well going back to the main gist of this style of play, are there any other options I am missing to improve the lightning cantrips such as Lightning Lure or Shocking Grasp? I am looking for a reason to avoid Booming Blade, or Green Flame Blade on my next character? I mean BB is probably too good at what it does but using shocking grasps means you can focus con caster stat first.

[Crgaston]

Arg, I have been doing it wrong for a while as I could have swore there was a comma there which would have changed the meaning to my interpretation.

Well going back to the main gist of this style of play, are there any other options I am missing to improve the lightning cantrips such as Lightning Lure or Shocking Grasp? I am looking for a reason to avoid Booming Blade, or Green Flame Blade on my next character?

I realize you said you wanted to avoid BB, but you also said you wanted ways to improve the other cantrips, and it can actually help with that.

Be a sorcerer and have all the cantrips. Lightning Lure and then Quicken Thunderclap. Booming Blade then Quicken Shocking Grasp and walk away. Use Distant to make your Shocking Grasp have a range of 30' to give allies a free disengage. Your Lightning Lure can reach out and move enemies 30' away (but they won't take any damage). Your Thunderclap can have a 10' radius. And you can BB with reach as well. Take a level or two of Tempest cleric?

[Rara1212]

Does Elemental Adept really reduce Immunity to resistance?
I remembered it only ignoring resistance and that you can treat any 1 on a damage die as a 2.

[Aaron Underhand]

Spell sniper is useful to give you a pull effect at longer range..

[AttilatheYeon]

Fly 15 above the target, 1d6 extra fall damage. Jump 15 feet off a cliff and LL the target off, the misty step back. Use LL to pull the target into cloud of daggers etc.

[Specter]

Eldritch Knight can do this job quite well with Eldritch Strike and War Magic.

Make a ranged or polearm attack from 15ft., and when you cast it on the same round, they will save with disadvantage, almost guaranteeing success against foes without STR save proficiency.

But for Lightning Lure to really shine, you need to have some good tanking capabilities, so I wouldn't pick it with pure mages.

[Master O'Laughs]

As a Tempest Cleric 6 with this cantrip, have a druid cast spike growth. Drag them 10 ft towards you and when they take the lightning damage, you push them 10 ft away. this would add an additional 8d4 damage

[xyianth]

Spell sniper is useful to give you a pull effect at longer range..

Unfortunately this doesn't increase the pull distance and the damage rider is contingent on the target ending up within 5' of you. This isn't useless however as it makes this cantrip into a handy ability to pull allies out of harms way without damaging them.

[Rixitichil]

It also allows you to pull Foes off rooftops, ledges easier or into hazards like pits, webs or walls of flame.

[Vexacia]

Combine Lightning Lure with Booming Blade and War Caster on a control-oriented frontliner - probably either a tank-oriented Hexblade or a Paladin with a 1 level dip in Hexblade, but plausibly an Eldritch Knight, a Hexblade dipped Bard (as is the intent for a Lore Bard+Hexblade 1 I've got in a campaign right now), or a gish-styled Hexblade Sorlock.

This makes for an exceptionally sticky wall that pulls enemies away from allies and into itself with Lightning Lure, disincentivizes those enemies from leaving with Booming Blade, and punishes them for attempting to leave through War Caster Attack of Opportunity casts of either Lightning Lure (mildly limiting their ability to actually run away) or Booming Blade (for a massive amount of punishment damage).

For extra joy, figure out a way to couple this punishment with an area control or area damage ability or spell, like the Protector Aasimar racial ability (AoE radiant damage aura), Spirit Guardians (through the gish Sorlock choosing Divine Soul or through the Bardlock stealing it at level 6), Darkness on yourself (if primary Hexblade with Devil's Sight), Hunger of Hadar (again if primary Hexblade), or even something as basic as Cloud of Daggers or Flaming Sphere or Create Bonfire (all available to either Eldritch Knight or Sorcerer, and all except Flaming Sphere available to Warlock).