Beholder flight and polymorphing

[Segev]

Is there a strict and clear ruling one can derive from the polymorph line of spells and the monster text as to whether an adventurer polymorphed into a Beholder gains the Beholder's flight?

The reason I ask is because, on the one hand, you gain movement modes (and a Fly speed is listed), but on the other, you only gain (Ex) abilities that enhance attacks, and the Beholder has an (Ex) ability that all it does is give them that listed flight speed. So arguably, you would not gain that (Ex) ability, but would gain the flight speed anyway...or you would not gain the flight speed despite it being a listed movement mode because it's just a reflection of that (ex) ability.

Is there a clear and definite way to read yes or no into this, or is this ambiguous and going to essentially depend on DMs making rulings, no matter how strictly you read the RAW?

[Telonius]

"Flight" is listed as one of its special qualities, and most/all other flying creatures don't have "flight" as a special quality, so I think that it's pretty clearly not covered by Polymorph.

The Flight (Ex) ability doesn't just give you the movement mode, it also gives you a permanent Feather Fall effect with range of Personal. From the wording of the ability it seems like the flight is the result of natural buoyancy (which it only gets from the (Ex) ability).

[ExLibrisMortis]

I think that Telonius is right, and that you don't get the (Ex) ability. On the other hand, I do feel that there's an argument to be made that beholders have buoyancy as a "gross physical quality", which would be granted under the alter self rules, as per the following:
You acquire the physical qualities of the new form [...] Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities [...], and any gross physical qualities. [...] You do not gain any extraordinary special attacks or special qualities not noted above under physical qualities.

Polymorph, on the other hand, doesn't use the "not noted above" form, but simply says you do not gain any extraordinary qualities.

So it seems that alter self might give you beholder flight (if buoyancy is a "gross physical quality"), but polymorph does not...

Of course, alter self won't let you take 11 HD forms, but you can take the form of some lesser beholder, especially with Reserves of Strength, if you wanted that flight specifically.

[Segev]

It sounds like the agreement is that, no, you wouldn't get the flight, but I want to be sure I'm not reading an implication that isn't being put there deliberately.

Does not getting the (Ex) ability mean you don't get the feather fall effect, but the presence of the fly speed means you still fly (since polymorph gives you movement modes), or does not getting the (Ex) ability deny you flight, as well?

Again, I think you'd be denied it, but I am trying to make sure I'm not just assuming that's what you mean.

[ExLibrisMortis]

The flight speed mentioned in a beholder's stat block is a reflection of the (Ex) ability, not a separately-granted fly speed; so yes, you would not get the fly speed when polymorped into a beholder.

[Telonius]

I can see the point about the general physical qualities. I guess it would all hinge on whether or not you considered a buoyant body to be a general physical quality or something else. For that, I could see ruling either way.

I don't have Lords of Madness handy, but I think the Grell might have some kind of equivalent floaty-ness. How are they listed there?

[Torpin]

well it says polymorph works like alter self and alter self says you gain flight with wings, so rules are written you would not get the flight. However, thatd be stupid, your movement would be 5ft. DMing I would say of course you get it because the rule is Dumb and the DMG says "you are the master of the game, the rules... " and ultimate authority over the game mechanics, even superseding something in a rulebook"

[ExLibrisMortis]

I don't have Lords of Madness handy, but I think the Grell might have some kind of equivalent floaty-ness. How are they listed there?
With even more spell references:
Flight (Ex): A grell’s body is unusually buoyant. The creature continuously produces an effect like that of the fly spell, which it can use to move at a speed of 30 feet (perfect maneuverability). This buoyancy also grants the grell a permanent feather fall effect with personal range.

[Doctor Awkward]

Is there a strict and clear ruling one can derive from the polymorph line of spells and the monster text as to whether an adventurer polymorphed into a Beholder gains the Beholder's flight?

No.

The polymorph line of spells is horrendously borked with regards to what explicitly is and isn't allowed despite an endless litany of rewrites and errata that run the course of the entire 3.5 Edition line.

It depends entirely on what your DM rule's a beholder's "Flighter (Ex)" ability to be:

Option A: It is an extraordinary special quality, as evidenced by being listed under the SQ area of the monster's statistics block, and being labeled as extraordinary. As polymorph explicitly states you do not gain any extraordinary qualities of the new form, you do not gain the a beholder's flight when you change into it.

Option B: It is a mundane form of movement. This interpretation relies on the specific description of the Flight ability from the Monster Manual, re: "A beholder’s body is naturally buoyant. This buoyancy allows it to fly at a speed of 20 feet. This buoyancy also grants it a permanent feather fall effect (as the spell) with personal range." Polymorph functions identical to alter self except as noted, and alter self explicitly states that you gain any mundane forms of movement that the new form possesses (including but not limited to "burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, [or] flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement"), as well as any "gross physical qualities". In practical terms, gross physical qualities are any such physical characteristics that comprise large portions of the whole creature, which would certainly include naturally occurring buoyancy. Therefore, you would gain a beholder's natural flight speed when you polymorph into one.

[Bronk]

I'd allow regular movement modes to a beholder polymorph form because it has flight listed in two places - the special qualities section, and in the flight speed section - and it only needs one.

Not only that, but LoM reiterates that beholders are naturally buoyant, but adds that they move via jets of air, and that organs that are removed from a beholder float like balloons for up to 12 hours. It seems then to not be a function of the Extraordinary ability anymore.

Plus, it's a lot less complicated that way.

[Segev]

I'd allow regular movement modes to a beholder polymorph form because it has flight listed in two places - the special qualities section, and in the flight speed section - and it only needs one.

Not only that, but LoM reiterates that beholders are naturally buoyant, but adds that they move via jets of air, and that organs that are removed from a beholder float like balloons for up to 12 hours. It seems then to not be a function of the Extraordinary ability anymore.

Plus, it's a lot less complicated that way.

Can I get a page citation on the jets of air and the removed organs, please? I don't recall ever reading that, and I have LoM, so I must've missed it somehow, or forgotten ENTIRELY about it.

[Bronk]

Can I get a page citation on the jets of air and the removed organs, please? I don't recall ever reading that, and I have LoM, so I must've missed it somehow, or forgotten ENTIRELY about it.

Sure, they're both from LoM, the first full paragraph on page 39.

[Segev]

Sure, they're both from LoM, the first full paragraph on page 39.

Thanks! That’s interesting. It’s all of their organs that do that.