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BlackSeraphX
2018-11-29, 05:57 PM
My DM has told us we'd be running Curse of Strahd next, and with the publishing of the new Ravinca book, he's allowing the Order domain for Clerics. I love the 1st level ability and was hoping to make it play like a battlefield commander, with shield and spear for a Greek hoplite feel. I'm hoping to play a Warforged (Envoy or Juggernaut), and with the recent errata on Polearm Master saw the spear as a interesting alternative to a quarterstaff (sans the Shillelagh cantrip of course).Originally I had wanted to try a Revised Ranger, Beast Conclave but the math on the beast's health made me steer away from that. I tend to play CHA-based characters and I want to try a Cleric (or Cleric MC) this time for 5E. I'm not set on anything besides using a spear and shield in medium/heavy armor with the aforementioned Order domain. Warforged would be ideal but not essential to the concept.

With point buy, and free feat at level 1, how would you build a capable melee warrior with enough spell slots to make good use of the Order domain's nifty first level feature?

Man_Over_Game
2018-11-29, 06:11 PM
Here's the list of Cleric spells, for reference:

Bane
Bless *
Ceremony
Command
Create or Destroy Water
Cure Wounds **
Detect Evil and Good
Detect Magic
Detect Poison and Disease
Guiding Bolt
Healing Word *
Inflict Wounds
Protection from Evil and Good *
Purify Food and Drink
Sanctuary ***
Shield of Faith *

*, **, ***: Can utilize Order Cleric's feature
**: Melee Range
***: Breaks upon making an attack, not ideal

So out of the list, you only really get 5 that are applicable, one of which is melee range, and two of them (Bless, Shield of Faith) accomplish a similar goal so are pretty redundant. That leaves about three applicable spells:

Bless/Shield of Faith (Both useful as a melee warrior)
Healing Word (The best, now even better!)
Protection from Good and Evil (Niche, but fits a perfect niche for CoS)

The rest of the stuff you pick will all be for flavor. Guiding Bolt and Command are good examples.

However, considering you get heavy armor, but don't get martial weapons, I'd actually consider swapping out PAM for Sentinel, as your tankiness is better than your damage output in most scenarios, and you'll already have enough options competing for your action and your bonus action.

Rather, I'd take Sentinel early on, and then invest in PAM around the same time you get Divine Strike.
--------------------

You wanna know something REALLY DUMB that I just realized? Order Cleric works exceptionally well with a single, very specific class: THE ROGUE. How dumb is that? The paragon of Law synergizes with a party of thieves better than any other class, even better than the criminal Mastermind or the Priest of all things regarding lying (Trickery).

BlackSeraphX
2018-11-29, 06:21 PM
Here's the list of Cleric spells, for reference:

Bane
Bless *
Ceremony
Command
Create or Destroy Water
Cure Wounds **
Detect Evil and Good
Detect Magic
Detect Poison and Disease
Guiding Bolt
Healing Word *
Inflict Wounds
Protection from Evil and Good *
Purify Food and Drink
Sanctuary ***
Shield of Faith *

*, **, ***: Can utilize Order Cleric's feature
**: Melee Range
***: Breaks upon making an attack, not ideal

So out of the list, you only really get 5 that are applicable, one of which is melee range, and two of them (Bless, Shield of Faith) accomplish a similar goal so are pretty redundant. That leaves about three applicable spells:

Bless/Shield of Faith (Both useful as a melee warrior)
Healing Word (The best, now even better!)
Protection from Good and Evil (Niche, but fits a perfect niche for CoS)

The rest of the stuff you pick will all be for flavor. Guiding Bolt and Command are good examples.

--------------------

You wanna know something REALLY DUMB that I just realized? Order Cleric works exceptionally well with a single, very specific class: THE ROGUE. How dumb is that? The paragon of Law synergizes with a party of thieves better than any other class, even better than the criminal Mastermind or the Priest of all things regarding lying (Trickery).


Thanks for the thoughtful response. Rogue would indeed be great, we still have two unknowns in the party, the other is a whip wielding Tempest Cleric with sniper sniper (Booming Blade). Originally the build was 5 Cleric, 5 Ranger (Revised) for extra slots and few useful spells, but I dislike having to grab 13 DEX just for that. I'm not at all set on PAM, it was just what set off my desire to play with a spear.

Man_Over_Game
2018-11-29, 06:32 PM
Thanks for the thoughtful response. Rogue would indeed be great, we still have two unknowns in the party, the other is a whip wielding Tempest Cleric with sniper sniper (Booming Blade). Originally the build was 5 Cleric, 5 Ranger (Revised) for extra slots and few useful spells, but I dislike having to grab 13 DEX just for that. I'm not at all set on PAM, it was just what set off my desire to play with a spear.

Pay close attention to what the other two in the group are doing. With a whip-wielder, don't expect too much damage by choosing to enhance your Tempest Cleric. If your team is mostly melee, they may need a more "caster oriented" character. If this is the case, Arcane Cleric can still perform with a spear and shield, has a large number of tools, also gains access to Booming Blade, and you can even grab Warcaster + PAM to punish enemies who get into melee range.

Or, for a more "commanding" style of character, Grave Cleric also performs well as a medium range support that can help take down hearty targets. As is, there's a bit of redundancy between a melee-oriented Order Cleric and a Reach Tempest Cleric, and you don't work off of each others' abilities, so consider a squishier build if your teammates seem to also pick options that are targeted for melee combat.

CTurbo
2018-11-29, 08:10 PM
Keep in mind that Clerics are never going to make GREAT melee specialists. They'll do ok, but especially at higher levels you'll almost always be better off casting a spell than hitting with your weapon.
With your free starting feat, I would take either Heavy Armor Mastery with the +1 Str or Res(Con) with the +1 Con.
With Envoy Warforged you could easily start with 16 Str, 16 Con, 16 Wis, or if you want to avoid dump stats, 16 Str, 14 Con, 16 Wis.
With Juggernaut, you could start with 16 Str, 16 Con, 14 or 15 Wis or even 18 Str with HAM, but it will hurt starting with less than 16 Wis.
Either way you're going to want Warcaster or Res(Con) pretty quick and at least 16 Wis.

Nhorianscum
2018-11-29, 09:12 PM
We're taking warcaster at 1 here. Our hands are full.

Main cleric: Order1/Warlock or Sorc1/Order 9. +2wisx2

Standard frontline cleric. Blender things with the tempest and double SG.

Sub Cleric: Order 1/Abjurer 9

It's like fightjurer, but with the ability to flad murder people with healing words and buffs!. +2 int + Alert. Abusive as hell with polymorph, Enjoy Trex taming.

Also works with shepherd druid since we're warforged.

Please bring 3 rouges...: Battlemaster 9/Order1

Sneak attaaaaaaack.

BlackSeraphX
2018-11-30, 12:37 AM
We're taking warcaster at 1 here. Our hands are full.

Main cleric: Order1/Warlock or Sorc1/Order 9. +2wisx2

Standard frontline cleric. Blender things with the tempest and double SG.

Sub Cleric: Order 1/Abjurer 9

It's like fightjurer, but with the ability to flad murder people with healing words and buffs!. +2 int + Alert. Abusive as hell with polymorph, Enjoy Trex taming.

Also works with shepherd druid since we're warforged.

Please bring 3 rouges...: Battlemaster 9/Order1

Sneak attaaaaaaack.

Could you explain a few those in more detail? And this as well?:

"Sorc1/Order 9. +2wisx2"

What Sorcerer type, and "what is +2wisx2"?

Nhorianscum
2018-11-30, 08:53 AM
Could you explain a few those in more detail? And this as well?:

"Sorc1/Order 9. +2wisx2"

What Sorcerer type, and "what is +2wisx2"?

2 ASI's used on wis. There's really nothing else we want more with warcaster in the bag.

Up to you on origin, divine soul is probably the "best" but we're here for a level to get a roided up magic innate. Origin/Partron is just a bonus.