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Blackflight
2018-11-30, 05:50 AM
Hi everyone.

I made this thread as a place where you can post your most optimized character build. The idea is not just to post the final goal of your character but what you aim to do level by level along with a short description of how your character plays. Note that only official material is allowed, so no UA or homebrew content is available - also the posted character should be something that does not require dubious interpretation of the rules.

In my experience, most games do not continue post level 8 (the campaign is over, the people playing are busy doing something else, etc.) So for starters, just post your detailed character progression from level 1-8 and maybe include a few notes on what you aim to do at level 9+

My own take on the best optimized character is the "Sorlock" which I have posted below as a template:

Note: your take on the most optimized character can be in the form of roleplaying, combat capabilities or as a jack of all trades as I have tried to do.

Blackflight
2018-11-30, 05:52 AM
The "Sorlock", deadly corsair of the seven seas

Race: Human (Variant)

Feat: Warcaster

Base class: Warlock

Skills: Deception, Arcana (class), Athletics, perception (sailor background), Stealth (Human variant)

Equipment: Rapier, shield and Chain shirt (if your GM does not allow you to start with these items they should be the first three things you aim to buy)

Note: if you do not care about stealth then pick a different skill from your human variant feature and get scale mail instead of chain shirt

Ability scores: Str (8), Dex (14), Con (14), Int (10), Wis (12), Cha (16)

Level progression:
Level 1: Warlock (1), pick hexblade subclass
Spells: Booming blade, Eldritch blast, Hex and Hellish rebuke

Level 2: Warlock (2), pick agonizing blast and devil’s sight invocations
Spells: Pick any spell*

Level 3: Sorcerer (1), pick divine soul subclass
Spells: Minor illusion, Green-flame blade, Friends, Frostbite, Alignment spell (preferably bless), healing word and shield

Level 4: Sorcerer (2)
Spells: Pick any spell**

Level 5: Sorcerer (3), pick quicken and twinned spell
Spells: Swap previous spell** for spiritual weapon and dragon’s breath

Level 6: Warlock (3), pick pact of the chain (imp familiar)
Spells: Swap previous spell* for misty step and mirror image

Level 7: Sorcerer (4), pick +2 charisma
Spells: Pick any spell***

Level 8: Sorcerer (5)
Spells: Swap previous spell*** for two of the following: Fireball, Haste and spirit guardians

Level 9+: Pick sorcerer levels until 20. Also consider getting 1 more level in warlock for an extra ability score improvement.

This character is a jack of all trades. It has strong melee and ranged single target and area of effect combat capabilities, is able to revive allies who drop to 0 hit points with healing word, has decent armor and survivability, as well as strong out of combat skills like arcana, deception, stealth and 120 feet darkvision. It even has the option of being able to buff party members with spells like bless or twinned haste.

The real fun begins at 6th level when you can cast dragon’s breath on your invisible imp familiar, cast spiritual weapon, while you blast your enemies with eldritch blast.

If you need to fill a tank role you can cast mirror image to make you difficult to hit (it can even be quickened with your sorcery points). You also pose a considerable melee threat as you can cast booming blade as an attack of opportunity (by using your warcaster feat) while able to cast spirit guardians.

Available for Adventurer's league?: If you swap out booming blade and green-flame blade for different cantrips in the PHB or Xanathar’s, then this character becomes available for Adventurer’s league play.

Exocist
2018-11-30, 08:53 AM
What's on the table? UA? All first party sources?

What do you mean by most optimised or strongest character? For combat purposes?

Pepi Jordan
2018-11-30, 09:10 AM
Sorcerer King. Obviously.

KorvinStarmast
2018-11-30, 09:13 AM
Sorcerer King. Obviously. Hard to argue with that without bursting into hysterical laughter

torrmh
2018-11-30, 10:02 AM
Sorcerer King. Obviously.

What's a sorcerer king? I honestly don't know, haha :)

Misterwhisper
2018-11-30, 10:10 AM
Captain Laser:

Race: Any of the 3 aasimar sub-races
Class: Celestial Warlock/evoker wizard, or just an evoker wizard multiple combination

As JC has posted multiple times despite the illogical nature of the plan:

Magic missile is not an attack, because it does not have an attack roll
It only has 1 damage roll, despite making multiple darts
the hits happen all at once but are separate, so you have to make a concentration check PER missile
It targets the person directly so can't be confused by magic missile or other miss chances.
Various other things that show how much he is a fanboy for magic missile arcane casters.

Aasimar may add their level to one damage roll of a spell per round, in their angelic form.
2 of those sub races make that damage radiant.
Celestial can add CHA to one damage roll of a spell, Aasamar make any spell have radiant damage.
Evoker adds INT to all evocation spells once per round.

So lets say:

Celestial Warlock 6/Evoker Wizard 14

Magic Missile:
1d4 + 1 base
Add level in radiant damage: 20
Now that it does radiant, add cha to damage from celestial: 5
It is evocation so evoker adds Int to damage: 5 more
Might as well use the evoker ability to maximize it:

Those are all 1 damage roll so magic missile does: THIRTY FIVE damage per missile.
That is 105 damage for a level 1 spell, + 35 more damage per spell level going up.
The only issue is shield/counterspell but just counter spell their shield/counterspell.

It is instant win against anyone not a caster, and even against casters it is auto win unless they are a sorcerer who can counterspell/shield subtly so you can't stop it.

You could take it one step further and just play a straight Aasimar Evoker, take MM as your at will level 1 spell. you only lose 5 damage per missile:
90 damage per round for as long as the angelic form lasts for free, or + 30 more damage per spell level you upcast it at.

Trustypeaches
2018-11-30, 10:29 AM
Official material? Sorcadin.

UA? Lore Mastery Wizard.

SunderedWorldDM
2018-11-30, 10:35 AM
SORCERER KING. No questions asked. :smallsmile:

Gastronomie
2018-11-30, 10:59 AM
THE SORCERER KIN... Damn, I knew people would beat me to it.

In all seriousness it depends on level and party composition, but the two classes that in my experience clearly stand out are Lore Bard and Divination Wizard. Sorcadin and other Gish builds are certainly fun, but suffer from lack of resources at low levels.

ChiefBigFeather
2018-11-30, 11:08 AM
I‘d say Hexblade 1/Blade x
Very similar to the lore bard but with decent melee capabilities.

JackPhoenix
2018-11-30, 11:13 AM
Why start as a warlock? Sorcerer give you Con save proficiency, which is more valuable to a caster than Wis, and you'll pick up light armor and simple weapons from multiclassing into warlock, not that you'll have to use them with Hexblade anyway.


What's a sorcerer king? I honestly don't know, haha :)

It's a build made by a troll with dubious understanding of the game rules that require extremely permissive GM to work. You aren't missing anything of value.


Snip

That's not level 8 as OP requested, and Celestial warlock doesn't add anything, because the radiant damage isn't damage ROLL, it's straight on addition.

Blackflight
2018-11-30, 11:24 AM
Official material? Sorcadin.

UA? Lore Mastery Wizard.

I forgot to mention that I meant official material only, so no homebrews or UA (i've edited the original post).

Eragon123
2018-11-30, 11:27 AM
Strongest? The answer is obviously Barbarian. No one else can get Strength above 20!

ChiefBigFeather
2018-11-30, 11:41 AM
Why start as a warlock? Sorcerer give you Con save proficiency, which is more valuable to a caster than Wis, and you'll pick up light armor and simple weapons from multiclassing into warlock, not that you'll have to use them with Hexblade anyway.

Blade is a Forgotten Realms description of the College of Swords Bard. I would start Hexblade because I prefer the will save over the dex save. There is no room for Sorcerer levels in that build, those put you behind on casting.

JackPhoenix
2018-11-30, 11:44 AM
Strongest? The answer is obviously Barbarian. No one else can get Strength above 20!

And that's where you're wrong. As long as you have Gauntlets of Ogre Strength, Belt of (any) Giant Strength and Hammer of Thunderbolts, it doesn't matter what your class is. Though you could argue that centaur with level 6 bear totem ability and access to Enhance Ability and some way to enlarge itself is stronger, because it's got better carrying capacity.


Blade is a Forgotten Realms description of the College of Swords Bard. I would start Hexblade because I prefer the will save over the dex save. There is no room for Sorcerer levels in that build, those put you behind on casting.

That was for the OP's build. I should've made that clearer.

supergoji18
2018-11-30, 11:48 AM
The strongest character is a level 20 Barbarian who has read 3 different Manuals of Gainful Exercise. That would but him at a strength of 30, the highest in 5e (of course assuming he had 20 Strength when he reached level 20, giving him 24 strength after the class feature bonuses).

Make sure he has proficiency in Athletics, then nothing could overpower him.

Gastronomie
2018-11-30, 11:53 AM
The strongest character is a level 20 Barbarian who has read 3 different Manuals of Gainful Exercise. That would but him at a strength of 30, the highest in 5e (of course assuming he had 20 Strength when he reached level 20, giving him 24 strength after the class feature bonuses).

Make sure he has proficiency in Athletics, then nothing could overpower him.Don't forget the possibility of him being a dwarf who has been keeping the same manual on his hands for several centuries.

Guy Lombard-O
2018-11-30, 12:18 PM
Magic missile is not an attack, because it does not have an attack roll
It only has 1 damage roll, despite making multiple darts

I was not aware of that. Is that from an errata or sage advice somewhere? I've always rolled each missile's damage separately. I've even combined MM with Hex before.

Misterwhisper
2018-11-30, 12:27 PM
I was not aware of that. Is that from an errata or sage advice somewhere? I've always rolled each missile's damage separately. I've even combined MM with Hex before.

It is because JC is a HUGE mark for casting magic missile.

It has been mentioned in Sage Advice multiple times.

Guy Lombard-O
2018-11-30, 01:14 PM
It is because JC is a HUGE mark for casting magic missile.

It has been mentioned in Sage Advice multiple times.

Right you are, thanks.

Nifft
2018-11-30, 01:16 PM
Strongest? The answer is obviously Barbarian. No one else can get Strength above 20!

This precisely.

Barb 20 is the strongest build, because nobody else can have Str 24 all day long.

Misterwhisper
2018-11-30, 01:34 PM
This precisely.

Barb 20 is the strongest build, because nobody else can have Str 24 all day long.

*caveat there should be "without magic items"

Anyone can get a belt of X Giant strength.

Man_Over_Game
2018-11-30, 01:50 PM
Crit Smiter:


Paladin 1
Warlock 1 (Hexblade)
Paladin 2
Paladin 3 (Vengeance)
Paladin 4 (Elven Accuracy)
Paladin +


As early as level 5, you have 3d20 on your attack rolls, and crit on a 19/20. That's a 27% chance to crit at level 5 without the need for Concentration. You also have access to Shield, heavy armor, and you only rely on Charisma for attacking and spellcasting.

It's not necessarily my most fun build I've ever designed, but it's definitely optimized for what it does.

KorvinStarmast
2018-11-30, 01:51 PM
*caveat there should be "without magic items"

Anyone can get wear a belt of X Giant strength. FTFY.....:smallsmile:

Jamesps
2018-11-30, 01:58 PM
I was really disapointed when I read the thread title and saw that the character proposed had 8 strength.

nickl_2000
2018-11-30, 02:15 PM
you could argue that centaur with level 6 bear totem ability and access to Enhance Ability and some way to enlarge itself is stronger, because it's got better carrying capacity.


Level 6 Bear Totem, Level 12 Moon Druid with the Brawny Feat and enhance ability bull's strength. 22 Strength, Gargantuan Carrying capacity, that is double because of bear totem, and doubled against for enhance ability.

I'm not even sure what your carry weight would be there, but it would be a silly large amount.

Man_Over_Game
2018-11-30, 02:23 PM
Level 6 Bear Totem, Level 12 Moon Druid with the Brawny Feat and enhance ability bull's strength. 22 Strength, Gargantuan Carrying capacity, that is double because of bear totem, and doubled against for enhance ability.

I'm not even sure what your carry weight would be there, but it would be a silly large amount.



Carrying Capacity. Your carrying capacity is your Strength score multiplied by 15. This is the weight (in pounds) that you can carry, which is high enough that most characters don't usually have to worry about it.

[...]

Size and Strength. Larger creatures can bear more weight, whereas Tiny creatures can carry less. For each size category above Medium, double the creature's carrying capacity and the amount it can push, drag or lift. For a Tiny creature, halve these weights.


So 22x15= 330lb. Brawny: x2=660, Enhance Ability: x2=1320, Large: x2=2640, Huge: x2=5280, Gargantuan: 10560

10560 lbs. Have fun with that, Atlas.

Nifft
2018-11-30, 03:09 PM
*caveat there should be "without magic items"

Anyone can get a belt of X Giant strength.

Sure, but that's the clothes, not the class.

"Strongest wardrobe" is a different topic from "strongest character".

The Barbarian can have 24 Str + 24 Con while naked -- and really, that's when you need it most.



I was really disapointed when I read the thread title and saw that the character proposed had 8 strength.

It's almost a pity that they can't lower it further via race / template or whatnot.

nickl_2000
2018-11-30, 03:11 PM
So 22x15= 330lb. Brawny: x2=660, Enhance Ability: x2=1320, Large: x2=2640, Huge: x2=5280, Gargantuan: 10560

10560 lbs. Have fun with that, Atlas.

I saw the original and was wondering if my knowledge of Greek mythology was severely lacking ;)

Sception
2018-11-30, 03:14 PM
I don't know about 'strongest', but I am a huge fan of Conquest Paladin, with or without one or more levels of hexblade dip, and have been since the second UA version, which gave us the current version of Aura of Conquest. Paladin's a strong class in and of itself, with a strong thematic feel and a broad array of abilities class features blending physical combat and spellcasting with solid party support in terms of both buffing and healing. Oath of Conquest gives the paladin a fun, edgy, dark knight flavor and doubles down on the melee range party support aspect of the paladin with strong lockdown control, making them one of the 'stickiest' tanks in 5e.

Where other paladin subclasses rarely do much to change how a base paladin tends to play, the conqueror's features reach beyond the subclass itself in order to recontextualize many of the parent class's features, resulting in a gameplay experience that is tangibly distinct from that of other paladins while taking even greater advantage of everything the already strong paladin class has to offer. A strong oath spell list and focus on frightening effects leads to more actual spellcasting, making the conqueror's spell slots a more dynamic and engaging feature than those of other, more smite-oriented paladins, while the standard divine smite tactics remain an effective fallback option against fearless foes. The need for strong save DCs encourages conquerors to prioritize charisma over their physical attack stat which powers up the standard paladin aura and spell options above those of typical paladins who prioritize their physical attack first. Frequent use of the powerful but party unfriendly Fear spell turns aura of courage - typically a mere ribbon for other paladins - into an actually useful combat tool, like a free shape spell for the conqueror's most powerful control AOE.

While some levels are still more generous than others, and multiclassing remains a perfectly viable option (particularly one or more levels of hexblade), there is not a single dead level in the Conqueror's entire progression, every single level will grant them some feature relevant to their melee lockdown tank/party support gameplay. There's not a single level of conqueror that you would ever regret taking, and if you make it all the way to 20 you're rewarded with an extremely powerful and evocative capstone. Sure, most paladin oaths have a capstone of similar caliber, but most other paladins find themselves wanting to jump out of paladin altogether long before that.


So... yeah, a fun and edgy paladin with a hefty dose of short range lockdown control that perfectly complements the parent class's mix of melee and party support to create one of 5e's most effective and engaging 'tank' builds.


Example generic conqueror build:
base stats: s15 d8 c15 i8 w8 h15
race: vuman (+1s, +1h, perception, resilient:con)
background: soldier (athletics, intimidation)
class skills: (insight, persuasion)
equipment: shield, longsword (or equivalent), javelins, whip, heaviest armor you can grab
Level progression: paladin 1 to 20

For levels 1-2 you're a typical paladin, no complaints there. For your combat style, dueling for better damage and defense for better AC are both excellent choices that complement your overall shtick, so grab whichever of the two you like.

Starting at level 3 you get your oath, picking up a friendly, concentration free, frightening aoe channel divinity, giving a sense of where you're going. At this point it's a debuff rather than a lockdown, but it's still a rather effective debuff for the level, and preventing affected targets from approaching you can also be used to protect your allies.

Level 4, you grab +2 cha. You're melee attack is starting to fall a bit behind relative to other paladins, but not painfully so yet, and between your channel divinity and wrathful smite, you've still got strong aoe or single target fear debuffs that are that little bit harder to resist or shake free from.

level 5 is a big level for everybody, paladins included. Extra attack, second level spells, and find steed are huge gets. As a conqueror, those second level slots can cast spiritual weapon, which is a highly useful concentration free bonus action damaging spell that over the course of most battles will hit a fair bit harder than a second level smite, so that's pretty cool.

Level 6 is a big level for all paladins, thanks to aura of protection, one of the very best class features in the entire game, and yours is just that little bit better than most other paladins thanks to prioritizing charisma over strength (or dex) at level 4.

Level 7 is /yet another/ big level in a row, for you probably the most defining level of your entire career, as you pick up oath of conquest. Now a conqueror proper, your enemies cowering before you as your channel divinity and the first level spell wrathful smite become terrifying lockdown effects that can take melee enemies out of the fight entirely, while heavily crippling ranged attackers. Spell attackers aren't as impaired, but even they are stuck in place while you beat on them.

Against a crowd of enemies, you open up with your channel divinity, then move into aura range of as many enemies that fail as you can. Against a singular threat, or if your channel divinity is still on cooldown, you open with wrathful smite, a first level frightening spell that, while single target and requiring concentration, is much harder to escape from, since after the initial save is failed the target can only break free with a check, not a save, which is made at disadvantage due to the frighten condition itself. Either way, you'll be taking one or more enemies almost entirely out of the fight in almost every fight. This while still offering a combination of offensive damage, save boosting aura, and buffing/support spell effects like Bless and Aid. This build-defining combination of control, damage, and buff makes your mere presence a defining fixture of nearly every combat for the rest of your career. You are a stone which supports your enemies and against which your enemies are broken, a mobile terrain that cannot be ignored, literally the center of attention.

Level 8 arrives with another +2 cha, yet again raising the effectiveness of your aura of protection and the save DCs of your spells and channel divinity. Granted, your melee attacks are really starting to lag noticeably at this point, but once you lock down a terrified opponent with disadvantage on all attacks and checks, continuous psychic damage, and no ability to escape, who cares if it takes an extra round to actually knock them out due to slightly lower attack & damage compared to your peers?

Level 9 is *yet another* huge level, this time granting you two uses of fear per day. Sure, wizards and the like have had access to this spell since level 5, but where as a wizard casts fear and enemies scatter around corners to make follow up saves and either trickle back, or worse keep fleeing only to join other nearby encounters, when you cast fear then move into aura range targets that fail are stuck in place, unable to flee, and thus unable to even attempt follow up saves. They might attack you in the hope you fail a concentration save, but between disadvantage on attacks due to frighten, your probably-best-in-the-party AC, and your +12 bonus to con saves, well, lets just say the chances of you losing control are slim. Beyond that, with your maximized charisma, a number of other second level paladin spells are more attractive to you than to your non-conquering peers, who are probably still making due with a +3 cha mod, if that.

Level 10 delivers aura of courage, and now that big fear cone is party friendly out to 10 feet, making it much easier to place.

Level 11 has improved divine smite, which goes a long way to shore up that lagging melee damage.
You also get a 3rd daily slot for Fear.

At level 12 you get to start making up lost ground with your physical attacks, grabbing +2 strength.

Level 13 grants you a 4th level spell slot, including access to find greater steed, which is the level's biggest selling point. Your cha mod is still higher than that of other paladins (though those who haven't multiclassed out are catching up), so you're still making better use of the new spells available, including banishment. Not that there aren't usully better spells to cast, but it's a nice option to have.

At level 14 cleansing touch lets you just bust clean out of any spell effect that doesn't prevent actions outright, a highly useful ability that makes it much harder for enemies to stop you from stopping them.

At level 15, you get constant reactive damage against any enemy that hits you. not a lot, but still, it adds up, and contributes to the many different ways that you punish your enemies no matter what they try to do.

Level 16, your strength has finally caught up to your cha, so you're no longer taking any setback to your melee attacks.

Level 17, 5th level paladin spells. Destructive wave is the big winner here, especially as any enemies trapped by your aura won't be able to stand from prone.

Level 18 - increased aura range is great for any paladin. For you, it's /amazing/.

Level 19 - here we finally have what could almost be described as a dead level, and you're still getting an asi. Near about any feat is a good choice here, but sentinel compliments your style and ensures you have a lockdown option against fear-immune enemies, albeit one that relies on opportunity attacks.

Level 20 - an amazing freaking capstone, I mean good golly, just look at it.

As you can see, while the character doesn't really come online until aura of conquest at level 7, and even then isn't *fully* online until level 9 with Fear, there isn't a single level anywhere in the progression that fails to deliver a really solid and directly relevant boost to your abilities. And even before aura of conquest, you're still a paladin, which is already one of the stronger melee classes. And you get to augment that innate paladin-ness with a solid aoe debuff channel divinity at level 3 and spiritual weapon as an enviable oath spell at level 5. For the rest of your career, you're one of the stronger lockdown tanks in 5e and the focal point of any encounter against fear-susceptible enemies. In particular you're highly effective against crowds of lesser foes, something normal paladins often struggle against.

And when you do end up battling a powerful, fear-immune enemy? Well, you've still got hold person and banish, and failing that (or against opponents who just will not fail any saves) you've still got the paladin's potent melee package, including the ability to channel spare spell slots into bonus damage. Your attack stat may not be as high as other paladins, but divine smite, improved divine smite, and spiritual weapon mean you'll still be able to dish out pure damage when you need to.


Now, while Conqueror works just fine on its own, a case could be made that it works /even better/ with some investment into hexblade, and the normal paladin multiclass staples of sorcerer or bard, while not quite as attractive as they are to other paladins (due to having more motivation to stay in paladin to begin with), still present some effective alternative paths. A single, solitary level of hexblade in particular solves the lagging physical attack stat issue (though the heavy motivation to grab warcaster in order to enable spells like shield and endure elements probably means you still won't have spare asi's to work with until way later in your career) while also adding a solid ranged fallback cantrip (eldritch blast is good even without the invocation boost) and more short-rest resources to round out your contribution over an adventuring day, in particular a solid damage spike ability in hexblade's curse to pull out when confronted with fear-immune foes. Together this is probably worth the single level delay to conqueror advancement, particularly once you've already picked up Fear at paladin level 9.

But I've spent long enough on this already. Just let it be said that any build with 7 levels of conqueror and the ability to cast 'Fear' is going to be highly effective. Deeper multiclass builds will tend to delay access to Fear at least, and will miss out on a ton of other great paladin features, but offer a lot of other benefits along the way, and when you do get access to Fear you tend to be able to use it more frequently.

Exocist
2018-11-30, 09:08 PM
Here's a few suggestions

Sneaky Attacker

Hexblade 5/Swashbuckler 3 (Continue as Swashbuckler)

Background: Rakdos Cultist (Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica)

This one's pretty simple - take Haste as a Warlock spell (can be done with the background granting haste on your spell list). When combat starts, cast haste. Every round, you want to attack + ready action (some trigger) booming blade.

I would suggest either Pact of the Chain (for the familiar) or Pact of the Tome (for book of ancient secrets).

Coffeelock/Decaf Lock

Sorcerer 1/Warlock 3/Sorcerer +1/Warlock +2/Sorcerer +1 (Continue into Warlock +4/Sorcerer +2/Warlock +2/Sorcerer +2/Whatever from there)

Yeah you all know the coffeelock trick. It's RAW legal.

For the less powerful version, play an Elf and take a long rest (Long rests are only 4 hours for elves as per sage advice) followed by 4 short rests while the rest of the party is taking a long rest. This might actually be a stronger version of the build because you don't have to rely on your slots to refresh things like HP and hitdice. It doesn't go infinite like regular coffeelock does, but day-to-day resource wise it'll prob be better.

Druid Build

Moon Druid 8 is strong but has its ups and downs at specific levels. The Quetzlacoatlus (CR 2, Volo's Guide to Monsters) is pretty stupidly strong even at level 8.

Shepherd Druid 8 spamming conjure animals (contingent on how your DM handles this - if he lets you pick 8x Giant Poisonous Snakes every time it's amazing, if he picks the creatures its kinda bad). Boring as heck though.

Ogre Mage
2018-12-01, 04:57 AM
Hexblade 1/Lore Bard X

Race: Half-Elf

Skills: Arcana (class), Investigation (class), Deception (criminal background), Stealth (criminal background), Perception (half-elf), Persuasion (half-elf).

Equipment: longsword, shield and breastplate (AC 18).

Ability scores: Str (10), Dex (14), Con (14), Int (12), Wis (12), Cha (16)

Level progression:
Level 1: Warlock (1), pick hexblade subclass
Spells: Eldritch Blast, Toll the Dead, Hex, Shield.

Level 2: Bard (1)
Spells: Mage Hand, Minor Illusion, Dissonant Whispers, Faerie Fire, Healing Word, Sleep.
Bard (multiclass) skill: Insight.

Level 3: Bard (2)
Spells: Another 1st level bard spell of your choice.

Level 4: Bard (3), pick Lore Bard subclass. Take expertise in Perception and Stealth.
Spells: Invisibility.
Bonus Lore Bard skills: Acrobatics, History and Sleight of Hand.

Level 5: Bard (4), +2 Charisma
Spells: Prestidigitation, Suggestion, drop Sleep for something else.

Level 6: Bard (5).
Spells: Hypnotic Pattern.

Level 7: Bard (6).
Spells: Dispel Magic. Magical Secrets really depends on the makeup of your party. Find Familiar, Healing Spirit, Misty Step, Fireball, Conjure Animals and Counterspell are all good choices.

Level 8: Bard (7).
Spells: Polymorph, drop Invisibility for Greater Invisibility.

Acts as an all-around character that is SAD, can contribute in almost any situation and is a good face for the group. The single level of hexblade compensates for the lore bard's biggest weaknesses -- AC and damage. For the higher levels, just keep adding lore bard levels and use magical secrets to compensate for group shortcomings. Be sure to grab wish if the campaign gets that far. If you need stronger round-to-round damage, take another level of hexblade and pick up the Agonizing Blast invocation.

ChiefBigFeather
2018-12-01, 11:56 PM
@ Ogre Mage:

I would probably go to the college of swords and be a variant human with Warcaster. Your shield will otherwise hinder you from casting the shield spell and other useful combat spells. Blade flourish, extra attack and weapon styles help a lot contributing in melee.

You loose a lot of skill proficiencies this way, but the bard gets half proficiency in everything anyway. Especially the additional magical secrets will lower your versatility, but I think it is overall very much worth it.

Millface
2018-12-03, 02:49 PM
Captain Laser:

Race: Any of the 3 aasimar sub-races
Class: Celestial Warlock/evoker wizard, or just an evoker wizard multiple combination

As JC has posted multiple times despite the illogical nature of the plan:

Magic missile is not an attack, because it does not have an attack roll
It only has 1 damage roll, despite making multiple darts
the hits happen all at once but are separate, so you have to make a concentration check PER missile
It targets the person directly so can't be confused by magic missile or other miss chances.
Various other things that show how much he is a fanboy for magic missile arcane casters.

Aasimar may add their level to one damage roll of a spell per round, in their angelic form.
2 of those sub races make that damage radiant.
Celestial can add CHA to one damage roll of a spell, Aasamar make any spell have radiant damage.
Evoker adds INT to all evocation spells once per round.

So lets say:

Celestial Warlock 6/Evoker Wizard 14

Magic Missile:
1d4 + 1 base
Add level in radiant damage: 20
Now that it does radiant, add cha to damage from celestial: 5
It is evocation so evoker adds Int to damage: 5 more
Might as well use the evoker ability to maximize it:

Those are all 1 damage roll so magic missile does: THIRTY FIVE damage per missile.
That is 105 damage for a level 1 spell, + 35 more damage per spell level going up.
The only issue is shield/counterspell but just counter spell their shield/counterspell.

It is instant win against anyone not a caster, and even against casters it is auto win unless they are a sorcerer who can counterspell/shield subtly so you can't stop it.

You could take it one step further and just play a straight Aasimar Evoker, take MM as your at will level 1 spell. you only lose 5 damage per missile:
90 damage per round for as long as the angelic form lasts for free, or + 30 more damage per spell level you upcast it at.

I don't understand how this allows you to add your Aasimar/Celestial/Evoker damage to each dart, you get them on one damage roll, I do get that each dart is separate, but wouldn't it just be 3d4+33? I can't see anything in the language there that would suggest you get to add these once per spell/roll bonuses more than once for one casting of the spell.

Eragon123
2018-12-03, 04:39 PM
I don't understand how this allows you to add your Aasimar/Celestial/Evoker damage to each dart, you get them on one damage roll, I do get that each dart is separate, but wouldn't it just be 3d4+33? I can't see anything in the language there that would suggest you get to add these once per spell/roll bonuses more than once for one casting of the spell.

He makes reference to a sage advice ruling where when a spell can/does effect multiple targets, you only roll the damage dice once. This makes sense for spells like fireball where it’d be painfully slow to roll for multiple enemies. However for magic missile, the damage dice is 1d4+1 the number of darts is specified in other parts of the spell. So when you get to add to the DAMAGE DICE of the spell, magic missile will interact weirdly with it.

This interaction was discussed at length when twilight druid was published in the UA.

Damon_Tor
2018-12-03, 04:46 PM
Strongest? The answer is obviously Barbarian. No one else can get Strength above 20!

Right up until a wizard uses Magic Jar to steal his body. Really need to pay closer attention to that cha save fam.

Man_Over_Game
2018-12-03, 04:53 PM
He makes reference to a sage advice ruling where when a spell can/does effect multiple targets, you only roll the damage dice once. This makes sense for spells like fireball where it’d be painfully slow to roll for multiple enemies. However for magic missile, the damage dice is 1d4+1 the number of darts is specified in other parts of the spell. So when you get to add to the DAMAGE DICE of the spell, magic missile will interact weirdly with it.

This interaction was discussed at length when twilight druid was published in the UA.

Here's an RPG Stack Exchange question on this exact topic: https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/47140/how-does-empowered-evocation-work-with-magic-missile

It has links to the specific sage advice, and quotes from JC. Basically, because "Magic missile is an oddball, in that it functions a bit like an area-damage spell ("strike simultaneously")", every dart gains the benefit of things that only enhance a single roll (which is what it does, and then uses that value for every dart).

Eragon123
2018-12-03, 05:32 PM
Here's an RPG Stack Exchange question on this exact topic: https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/47140/how-does-empowered-evocation-work-with-magic-missile

It has links to the specific sage advice, and quotes from JC. Basically, because "Magic missile is an oddball, in that it functions a bit like an area-damage spell ("strike simultaneously")", every dart gains the benefit of things that only enhance a single roll (which is what it does, and then uses that value for every dart).

Which makes it interesting for wild sorcerers and Spell Bombardment.

Keravath
2018-12-03, 10:58 PM
Captain Laser:

Race: Any of the 3 aasimar sub-races
Class: Celestial Warlock/evoker wizard, or just an evoker wizard multiple combination

As JC has posted multiple times despite the illogical nature of the plan:

Magic missile is not an attack, because it does not have an attack roll
It only has 1 damage roll, despite making multiple darts
the hits happen all at once but are separate, so you have to make a concentration check PER missile
It targets the person directly so can't be confused by magic missile or other miss chances.
Various other things that show how much he is a fanboy for magic missile arcane casters.

Aasimar may add their level to one damage roll of a spell per round, in their angelic form.
2 of those sub races make that damage radiant.
Celestial can add CHA to one damage roll of a spell, Aasamar make any spell have radiant damage.
Evoker adds INT to all evocation spells once per round.

So lets say:

Celestial Warlock 6/Evoker Wizard 14

Magic Missile:
1d4 + 1 base
Add level in radiant damage: 20
Now that it does radiant, add cha to damage from celestial: 5
It is evocation so evoker adds Int to damage: 5 more
Might as well use the evoker ability to maximize it:

Those are all 1 damage roll so magic missile does: THIRTY FIVE damage per missile.
That is 105 damage for a level 1 spell, + 35 more damage per spell level going up.
The only issue is shield/counterspell but just counter spell their shield/counterspell.

It is instant win against anyone not a caster, and even against casters it is auto win unless they are a sorcerer who can counterspell/shield subtly so you can't stop it.

You could take it one step further and just play a straight Aasimar Evoker, take MM as your at will level 1 spell. you only lose 5 damage per missile:
90 damage per round for as long as the angelic form lasts for free, or + 30 more damage per spell level you upcast it at.

Here are the quotes:

Protector Aasimar

"During it, you have a flying speed of 30 feet, and once on each of your turns, you can deal extra radiant damage to one target when you deal damage to it with an attack or a spell. The extra radiant damage equals your level."

You deal extra radiant damage to one TARGET that you damage with a spell or attack. It does NOT affect the damage of the spell.

Scourge Aasimar

"In addition, once on each of your turns, you can deal extra radiant damage to one target when you deal damage to it with an attack or a
spell. The extra radiant damage equals your level."

Again damage is dealt to one target and has nothing to do with the spell or attack.

Fallen Aasimar

"During it, once on each of your turns, you can deal extra necrotic damage to one target when you deal damage to it with an attack or a spell."

Same as above.

Basically, the idea doesn't work to modify the damage of the magic missile ... it just lets you add damage against one target.