anyone tried Fighter2/Wizard X action surge build?

[SpiderWaffle]

I've seen this brought up many times but there's not much input/data or anything close a consensus on if it works out well or not. Treantmonk says "I’m torn on this one."

The premise is promising, 2 levels of fighter for action surge is a common multi-class idea. For a spell caster it's thoroughly confirmed you could cast two action spells on one turn with action surge, something rarely seen done which could get you a big tempo advantage on a very big tough fight, which you probably won't have more than once a short rest very often. If going level 1 fighter first, you have a the benefit of constitution proficiency bonus on saving throws for concentration checks, but will be 1 level behind on wizard and spells the entire time, so levels 2-5 you will be very weak compare most, but maybe worth it?

The idea would to be take level 2 fighter after wizard level 5 (or maybe 7 if 6th level Arcane Tradition feature is amazing).

For a campaign like curse of the strahd, DM saying we will probably be close to 20 by end, I'm considering this build or going cleric first 1 level, then wizard which wouldn't delay the spells leveling is very nice. Could maybe even do both, like fighter 1, wizard 5, fighter 2, cleric 1 or something of that sort, or pickup magic initiate for bless and guidance.



Fighter 1 / Wizard 5 / Fighter 1 vs Wizard 7
HP: 4 more levels 1-6, 6 more level 7+
Proficiency-- Con and Str vs Int and Wis
All armor and shields vs none
simple and martial weapons vs just Daggers, darts, slings, quarterstaffs, light crossbows
Choose two skills: Acrobatics, Animal Handling, Athletics, History, Insight, Intimidation, Perception, and Survival vs Arcana, History, Insight, Investigation, Medicine, and Religion
Fighting Style: +1 AC (or other) vs nothing
Second Wind: use a bonus action to regain hit points equal to 1d10 + your fighter level once per short rest vs nothing
levels 7+ Action Surge vs nothing
levels 1-6 behind spell slots table by 1 level, levels 7+ behind 2 levels
levels 1-6 ABSI at level 5 vs 4, arcane tradition at level 3 vs 2 levels 7+ ABSI at level 10 vs 8 ect. Arcane tradition level 8 vs 6 ect.

Major Pros are heavy armor and +1 AC, if you have a negative dex mod this is amazing, 4 then 6 more HP, second wind, action surge and con prof.
Major Cons are behind 1 and then 2 levels on your wizard table for spells slots, ABSI, arcane recovery, and arcane features and can't get arcana or investigation prof.

I think it comes down how big the AC bonus will be if you have -dex, and how much you expect to get hit and how much action surge will help. For difficult but quicker fights between short rests the tempo would be amazing, long drawn out fights would diminish it's advantage over time.

[Man_Over_Game]

It's kind of a 50/50 build. I'd rather take Fighter 1 to start for the initial benefits and proficiencies. You'd be getting +4 more HP doing so for the rest of the game.

For the majority of the build, I'm kinda with Treantmonk. It's "not bad", and most of its benefits are passive defensive increases or a single turn special action. The burst damage is nice. For more casting power, though, you could just go War Mage and have comparable benefits.

In terms of Defense vs. Offense build options:


DEFENSE
Eldritch Knight
Fighter 2, Wizard 18 (this post)
Bladesinger
War Mage
Any other Wizard
OFFENSE


So, sure. If you feel that you need more casting than being an Eldritch Knight, but a War Mage just isn't tanky enough for you, then I'd go with your recommended route. Otherwise, it's not a feature that's worth dipping into by itself, but can be worth it if you consider any other additional features you get as being valuable.

I do usually find people playing the Fighter/Wizard build when starting past the early levels, because no Wizard wants to waste their time being a mundane Fighter.

[Callak_Remier]

It's kind of a 50/50 build. I'd rather take Fighter 1 to start for the initial benefits and proficiencies. You'd be getting +4 more HP doing so for the rest of the game.

For the majority of the build, I'm kinda with Treantmonk. It's "not bad", and most of its benefits are passive defensive increases or a single turn special action. The burst damage is nice. For more casting power, though, you could just go War Mage and have comparable benefits.

In terms of Defense vs. Offense build options:


DEFENSE
Eldritch Knight
Fighter 2, Wizard 18 (this post)
Bladesinger
War Mage
Any other Wizard
OFFENSE


So, sure. If you feel that you need more casting than being an Eldritch Knight, but a War Mage just isn't tanky enough for you, then I'd go with your recommended route. Otherwise, it's not a feature that's worth dipping into by itself, but can be worth it if you consider any other additional features you get as being valuable.

I do usually find people playing the Fighter/Wizard build when starting past the early levels, because no Wizard wants to waste their time being a mundane Fighter.

The cost benefit i see:
Pros: Heavy or Medium armour Proficiency
And once per Long rest you can cast twice in a round.
Cons: you will miss out on 6 9th level spells known.

You will know 2 9th level spells One which you can lose ( wish)

Bear in Mind a 9th level spell scroll is equivilant to a Legendary Magic item. So you wont be seeing them to add to your spellbook.

[Vorpalchicken]

The cost benefit i see:
Pros: Heavy or Medium armour Proficiency
And once per Long rest you can cast twice in a round.
Cons: you will miss out on 6 9th level spells known.

You will know 2 9th level spells One which you can lose ( wish)

Bear in Mind a 9th level spell scroll is equivilant to a Legendary Magic item. So you wont be seeing them to add to your spellbook.

You get the two spells/round once every short rest.

Also you don't need to find scrolls to get extra spells. You just need to beat a high level wizard and steal his spell book (or just have your rogue friend steal it perhaps.) Or just have a friend (possibly another player character) wizard, and take a few hours and a paltry sum of gold to expand your repertoire.

The MAIN drawback here is that you delay your spell progression by TWO levels. That is huge and super annoying.

[stoutstien]

The cost benefit i see:
Pros: Heavy or Medium armour Proficiency
And once per Long rest you can cast twice in a round.
Cons: you will miss out on 6 9th level spells known.

You will know 2 9th level spells One which you can lose ( wish)

Bear in Mind a 9th level spell scroll is equivilant to a Legendary Magic item. So you wont be seeing them to add to your spellbook.

Small correction, action surge is Short rest recharge.
Agreed it nice for defence focused casters to buff/debuff in the first round.

[MaxWilson]

And once per Long rest you can cast twice in a round.
Cons: you will miss out on 6 9th level spells known.

Short rest, not long rest, and four spells not six. (And some spell slots, and a feat, and Signature Spell.)

I would only do Fighter 2/Wizard 18 if I had specific, time-sensitive spell synergies in mind that needed this, for example if I wanted to exploit Cloudkill + Forcecage for 500d8 poison damage (saves for half). That combo doesn't work well unless you cast them both in the same turn. Another example is scry-and-die Teleport + Power Word Stun (or Kill) on a rival wizard so they can't bring defenses online, especially if you have Greater Invisibility up to prevent Counterspell. Or Wall of Force + Dimension Door straight up + Feather Fall so your concentration cannot be broken by other monsters in the fight.

Don't pay the level cost unless you know in advance how you're going to benefit.

Generally I'm not a fan of such specialized choices but I can imagine doing it for a change of pace.

[Grear Bylls]

I've been playing a fighter 3/ Abjurer X for some time now, and I must say, when you need it, Action Surge for double spells or attacks is absolutely phenomenal. At mid levels, fireball can't wipe out a group of mooks, but you know what can? TWO FIREBALLS! That's one of my favorites to whip out against a full board.

When you need it to deal massive damage over a large area or on a single target, it's incredibly useful.

However, my wizard is focused on melee, so I typically set up Haste and then attack twice, similar to a generic fighter.

The other benefits of Level 1 fighter (Con saves, Heavy armor) more than make up for the lower spell casting. I'd go Fighter for first level, fove levels in wizard, then back to Fighter for a level.

[LudicSavant]

You get the two spells/round once every short rest.

This.


The MAIN drawback here is that you delay your spell progression by TWO levels. That it huge and super annoying.

One option is to take Fighter 1 / Wizard X until you get some good spells under your belt, then take the fighter 2 once you have something worth doubling up on.

In other words, you're shooting yourself in the foot if you have Fighter 2 / Wizard 1 and can just blow both of your level 1 spells at once, but if you go Fighter 1 / Wizard 5 / Fighter 1 you're getting a double Fireball right when you grab that Fighter level.

That Fighter 2 level is more beneficial the more levels of Wizard you have; there's no need to rush to get it.



In terms of Defense vs. Offense build options:


DEFENSE
Eldritch Knight
Fighter 2, Wizard 18 (this post)
Bladesinger
War Mage
Any other Wizard
OFFENSE


So, sure. If you feel that you need more casting than being an Eldritch Knight, but a War Mage just isn't tanky enough for you, then I'd go with your recommended route.

An Eldritch Knight generally has less defense than the multiclass Wizard, not more. Both have the same armor, the Wizard has more hit points (if they're an Abjurer), and the Wizard has way more (and higher level) defensive spell slots.

[Callak_Remier]

Also you don't need to find scrolls to get extra spells. You just need to beat a high level wizard and steal his spell book (or just have your rogue friend steal it perhaps.) Or just have a friend (possibly another player character) wizard, and take a few hours and a paltry sum of gold to expand your repertoire.

.

Good luck with that, you are vastly understating the difficulty of that task
You cant steal a Spellbook if its not in the prime material plane. Since its easy to have a Familiar hold onto it while dismissed in a pocket dimension. There are many other options beyond that. I doubt you would Ever find a high level wizards spellbook.