Sanity check on a houserule - recovering spell slots

[Justin Sane]

Context: current group consists of a Lore Bard (Controller/Healer), an Awakened Mystic (Blaster, some CC, some healing), a Swordmage (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fBoC8bVRb_0syWHZORwWeagijKOX5bljMza8rbziBQI/edit) Paladin (Tank/Healer) and a Sun Soul Monk, playing on the Planeshift: Zendikar setting. All of us are level 7.

More often than not, we end up long-resting after difficult fights - the Bard and the Mystic tend to go all-out, so the group is reluctant to go on low on spells. Using shorter long rests doesn't quite fit the narrative (and just makes the problem worse), and since it's a more player-driven plot, there's not really a Doom Clock pressuring us, so there really isn't much of in-character motivation not to take our time.

OOC, we recognize the problem, but don't clearly see a clear IC way to handle it without including time pressures, which, again, don't fit the current story.

We agreed that a way to recover some power during short rests is the way to go - not enough to get us at 100%, just some more juice back in the tank for another mile.

Since I'm the mechanics guy on our group, they let me handle that part. This is what I came up with:

During a Short Rest, you can absorb ambient Mana to restore your spell slots. The spell slots can have a combined level that is equal to or less than half your level (rounded up), and none of the slots can be 6th level or higher. If you use spell points, recover up to your Proficiency Modifier spell points instead.

If you do so, roll a Saving Throw using your Spellcasting Ability, with a DC of 10. If you fail, you gain one level of exhaustion.
Each time you use this ability after the first, the DC increases by 5. When you finish a long rest, the DC resets to 10.In other words, the Wizard's Arcane Recovery, attached to some possible Exhaustion.

I'm not 100% happy with this, as I see some issues already:
1st, spell points. The language needs to be there, as the Mystic and the Bard need to run by the same rule. I'm failing completely trying to come up with a decent convertion rate.
2nd, the DCs. I based those numbers from the Barbarian's Relentless Rage. These look really low - the recovery itself needs to auto-suceed, but I feel there should be some risk attached.
3rd, the Paladin (full disclosure here, my character). On one hand, it's a sign of elegance to make the same rules fit all casting types. On the other, endless Smites. Right now, I'm inclined to limit this to full casters, as none of our characters are multi-classed.

What do you guys think? How would you fix those 3 issues? Have you spotted any other obvious problem?

And yes, we know DnD is supposed to be a resource-management game, especially for the casters, that cantrips are there for a reason, and so on. We're playing wrong, and having a damned good time while doing it. So, please, if your reply will be just to point that out - don't.

[Unoriginal]

Using shorter long rests doesn't quite fit the narrative (and just makes the problem worse), and since it's a more player-driven plot, there's not really a Doom Clock pressuring us, so there really isn't much of in-character motivation not to take our time.

OOC, we recognize the problem, but don't clearly see a clear IC way to handle it without including time pressures, which, again, don't fit the current story.


Just one question: are those long rests ever interrupted because those adventurers are resting in dangerous places while enemies are still alive?



We're playing wrong, and having a damned good time while doing it. So, please, if your reply will be just to point that out - don't.

Then why would you care about sanity checks on your houserules? Just play what you like.

[Man_Over_Game]

I mean, truth be told, there's already balance in place for classes to regenerate spell slots on a short rest and others from a long rest. Ignoring that is going to lead to a massive power difference between Sorcerers and Warlocks, and trying to encourage it with a houserule is going to create some obvious balance issues across the board, and I think you're recognizing some of them. That isn't saying it's wrong to have fun, but the balance issue hasn't come up yet due to not having both forms of classes (those that need long rests vs those that need short rests), so the power difference isn't obvious. With your house rule, that difference in power is simply becoming MORE obvious.

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My recommendation would be to tie in an existing resource: Hit Die. Paladins need it, casters don't. It addresses the concern for Paladins of having massive numbers of Divine Smite, and it also makes casters feel punished by having less juice the following day.

I'd probably do something like this:


During a Short Rest, you can spend a Hit Die to convert your excess physical energy into metaphysical energy used for spells. For each Hit Die you spend, you can regain spell slots who's summed level equals the number of Hit Dice spent.

Keep in mind, you only regenerate half of your maximum hit die on a long rest, so overuse of this feature can bite you in the rear. The classes that rely on less spellcasting (like the Paladin) are the type that already need Hit Die to regenerate health, so they now have some decisions to make.

[Justin Sane]

Then why would you care about sanity checks on your houserules? Just play what you like.Going to address this one first: a couple of reasons.
1st, we agree there's a problem, and we're looking for something more interesting than "stop doing it".
2nd, I like tinkering. I take enjoyment in homebrewing, and in the discovery and analysis process of it. However, I don't feel fully confident on my sense of balance, so this is an opportunity to recalibrate.
3rd, this kind of nuts-and-bolts rejiggering always makes me learn new stuff about 5e, the way it's designed, and how all the various components interact.


Just one question: are those long rests ever interrupted because those adventurers are resting in dangerous places while enemies are still alive?Every now and then, yes. IC, we've learned that there's always some less dangerous Hadron to pillage, so even if we're not interrupted after retreating to basecamp, if the place looks on high alert next morning, we just move on to the next one.


I mean, truth be told, there's already balance in place for classes to regenerate spell slots on a short rest and others from a long rest. Ignoring that is going to lead to a massive power difference between Sorcerers and Warlocks, and trying to encourage it with a houserule is going to create some obvious balance issues across the board, and I think you're recognizing some of them. That isn't saying it's wrong to have fun, but the balance issue hasn't come up yet due to not having both forms of classes (those that need long rests vs those that need short rests), so the power difference isn't obvious. With your house rule, that difference in power is simply becoming MORE obvious.Well, we don't have Warlocks in our party, so I don't think that's going to be too noticeable - especially because this applies equally to everyone. Then again, there's the Monk.


My recommendation would be to tie in an existing resource: Hit Die. Paladins need it, casters don't. It addresses the concern for Paladins of having massive numbers of Divine Smite, and it also makes casters feel punished by having less juice the following day.

I'd probably do something like this:

During a Short Rest, you can spend a Hit Die to convert your excess physical energy into metaphysical energy used for spells. For each Hit Die you spend, you can regain spell slots who's summed level equals the number of Hit Dice spent.
Keep in mind, you only regenerate half of your maximum hit die on a long rest, so overuse of this feature can bite you in the rear. The classes that rely on less spellcasting (like the Paladin) are the type that already need Hit Die to regenerate health, so they now have some decisions to make.This is interesting, but I dont think it's the way to go. Spell slots can be easily converted to HP, but Exhaustion is a lot stickier.

[Contrast]

Out of interest have you tried other rest variants?

Gritty would really put to the test the DMs allowance of long resting whenever you fancy it/give you a better roleplaying reason not to engage in the 5 mins adventuring day when you have to take a week off. Alternatively if you're happy to to just have every encounter be after a long rest and just consider resting a faff, just use the epic heroism variant and be done with it.


Edit - hmm looks like I misread a sentence and you may well have. Nevermind! Out of interest what about shorter long rests didn't fit the narrative?

[Justin Sane]

Out of interest what about shorter long rests didn't fit the narrative?Verisimilitude, I'd guess. It was during the Siege of Seagate, as we were trying to escape from the Eldrazi (think Far Realm monsters) horde. We knew that yes, we could bolt up for a bit and be ready to move again, but it just felt wrong.
Also brings up complicated questions about the world itself - what do sieges look like when an hour's pause is enough to fully recover from near-deadly wounds? We like to see spells being flung about, but at some point, attrition has to take its toll.

[Sigreid]

Question: Are the encounters balanced around you guys blowing all your resources each fight, or are you completely steam rolling pretty much everything?

[Malifice]

Verisimilitude, I'd guess. It was during the Siege of Seagate, as we were trying to escape from the Eldrazi (think Far Realm monsters) horde. We knew that yes, we could bolt up for a bit and be ready to move again, but it just felt wrong.
Also brings up complicated questions about the world itself - what do sieges look like when an hour's pause is enough to fully recover from near-deadly wounds? We like to see spells being flung about, but at some point, attrition has to take its toll.

Surely simply reverting to the gritty realism rest variant is up your alley?

[Justin Sane]

Question: Are the encounters balanced around you guys blowing all your resources each fight, or are you completely steam rolling pretty much everything?Bit of both? whenever our DM overtunes an encounter, he adjusts on the fly changing the monster's tactics. But the world doesn't care about "balance", and we've been in situations where a full nova led to a full retreat (don't taunt a trio of young dragons at level 6), and in situations where we've breezed through 4 consecutive encounters without a short rest.


Surely simply reverting to the gritty realism rest variant is up your alley?On the contrary - lounging around for a week in town isn't our idea of fun.

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And guys, while I appreciate the feedback, we're not going to change our playstyle. We're just looking for a way to stretch out our adventuring days for a bit longer, while doing the things we find fun.
Can anyone help us with the 3 issues I've pointed out, or spotted any additional things we should be aware of?

[Sigreid]

Perhaps just change to a 5 minute short rest and hour long rest, Limiting the number of long rests in a day to say, 3?