Barbarian-Paladin meat shield... how to make it work?

[dehro]

I'm building a level 5 character for a party where I was playing an eldritch knight. Their current main melee characters are a halfling monk and an assassin-rogue.
I am fixing to be the main meatshield and am considering playing either a half-orc or a human.

IMPORTANT: we only use player's handbook in character creation. Anything else is out of the question.

I could go straight up barbarian or straight up paladin, but I got really lucky with the stat rolls and got 16 16 16 15 12 8...so I'm very intrigued by the possibility of playing something a bit more MAD and multi-faceted.
Since we're playing Hoard of the Dragon Queen, playing a barbarian who becomes a vengeance paladin with a grudge against the cult of the dragon would be the easiest way to justify him being on a personal mission and joining the party where they're at (Castle Naerytar, where my previous character kicked the bucket tonight).

Now... If you were to go barbarian/paladin, what would your most effective/best/favourite option of how to break down these 5 levels?
1 barbarian/4 paladin? 2/3? 3/2? 4/1?
and what would the progression be?
do you have any further recomendations?

[Galithar]

Barb 1/Paladin 4
First two levels into Paladin, remainder into barbarian.

You want to pick up Extra Attack as early as possible and then grab the Aura since it's only one level away. Then Barbarian for everything else. I might even suggest Paladin 5 start to start with extra attack, then 6. Then everything else Barbarian, but that sounds like it might not fit your RP.

[dehro]

Barb 1/Paladin 4
First two levels into Paladin, remainder into barbarian.


I'm confused. Your statements seem contradictory..

on a more detailed note, what pays more dividends at level 5, having bear totem damage reduction or having the advantages of an oath of vengeance paladin, including channel divinity?

[Mackatrin]

Make a human, use the variant rule to get a feat, choose Defensive Duelist or Shield Master feat (Depending on playstyle and dex score). Wear Breastplate and use a one handed weapon and a shield.

Take 4 levels of Paladin, sacrifice the ability score improvement to take Medium Armor Master Feat if you have a 16+ Dex.

Fighting Style take Defense

Take 1 level of Barb.

If you roll at least a 16 dex, you'll end up with a 20 AC and be hard as hell to kill, if you have good Con as well. Your LoH will be super useful at that point, plus you'll have divine health, and you'll have access to your Oath spells. You'll also have rage, so you'll be hard as hell to hit and you'll also have the ability to hit back.

Thats what i'd do at least, if your looking for a straight rage tank.

[Galithar]

I'm confused. Your statements seem contradictory..

on a more detailed note, what pays more dividends at level 5, having bear totem damage reduction or having the advantages of an oath of vengeance paladin, including channel divinity?

The "first two levels" are what you gain during the campaign. Starting 1/4 then yep more levels Paladin to be 1/6, then all other levels into Barbarian. Get the powerful abilities from Paladin (extra attack and Aura) then go back to Barbarian.

I would say Bear totem resistance. But at character level 7 (1 Barb/6 Paladin) the Aura just about makes up for delayed resistance. Really there are a lot of paths, and for primary meatshield you might be right to go for that Bear totem resistance before the Aura.

[Angelalex242]

Actually, you do not want Barb 5 AND Pal 5. Inefficient. You can't get Extra Attack twice.

So Pick Pal 4/Barb 16 or Barb 3 (Bear Totem) Pal 17. But don't split evenly.

[JellyPooga]

V.Human Paladin 2/Bear Barb 3

Wear heavy armour, take Heavy Armour Master as your bonus lvl.1 feat and enjoy the loophole in Bear Barbarian that lets you wear heavy armour and enjoy the benefit of raging in that get-up.

[Arkhios]

I'm confused. Your statements seem contradictory..

on a more detailed note, what pays more dividends at level 5, having bear totem damage reduction or having the advantages of an oath of vengeance paladin, including channel divinity?

Barbarian 1/Paladin 4, with first 2 levels in paladin means that your level progression would be like this:

1st: Paladin
2nd: Paladin
3rd: Barbarian
4th: Paladin
5th: Paladin


It doesn't really matter how you do it; if you have 4 levels in paladin and 1 in barbarian, you are a Barbarian 1/Paladin 4 (or Paladin 4/Barbarian 1). It's purely semantics.

However, the order matters for which class you take first, in regards to the proficiencies you get.

[Aett_Thorn]

Actually, you do not want Barb 5 AND Pal 5. Inefficient. You can't get Extra Attack twice.

So Pick Pal 4/Barb 16 or Barb 3 (Bear Totem) Pal 17. But don't split evenly.

Eh, one dead level in the build isn’t too bad. And luckily, Barbs get extra movement at level 5 as well, so it’s not truly a waste. Sure, it’s not great, but in this case it’s not a bad idea.

[dehro]

so.. for flavour and background reasons, I'm thinking I should go this way, even though it is probably sub-optimal:
Gerka, CG female half-orc, grown in a nomadic tribe, gaining the outlander background.
She's grows up a barbarian for 3 levels, then her tribe is hit heavily by the cult and she prays for Gruumush to help her seek vengeance, thereby becoming a paladin for the next 2 levels. Since she's renouncing her "good" ways, her allignment shifts to Caotic Neutral.
I assume 5th edition is ok with a non lawful paladin? I don't seem to find anything barring it outright in the manual.

her proficiencies are as follows:
STR and CON saves,
Intimidation, survival, athletics, nature and perception. medium and light armour, shields, martial weapons and simple weapons.
her stats, after racial adjustments are
Str 18
Dex 16
Con 16
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 16

She's going bear totem and will take the oath of vengeance when she gets to the third level of paladin... whether she'll get to barbarian 4 first or indeed paladin 3rd depends on how successful she'll be in finding vengeance, keeping her cool/controlling her rage, etc etc..
I have yet to decide whether she'll go with great weapon fighting or sword and board to maximise AC

It's probably not the most efficient, as progressions go, and I might have to spend a feat on gaining access to heavy armour proficiency or forego the higher AC.. but it makes the most sense story-wise.
I'm not sure how far I'll be able to take this character, and I'll have to make up my mind whether to then let her grow as a pally or as a barbarian. Either could work.

[Galithar]

It's only a waste if you stop BOTH at 5. If you put one more level into Paladin the Aura more then makes up for a doubled up extra attack, additionally doesn't that 6th level in Paladin increase your spell slots? I'm not looking at their spell progression table, but as a half caster it should give them the slots of a level 3 full caster, right?

[Nhorianscum]

(Half orc) Barb1/Paladin6/Barb2/Paladin6/Barb 3(bear)/Paladin X

First ASI goes to GWM.

Vengance is wasted here with reckless attack giving advantage on-tap but Ancients works wonderfully fluff and crunch wise.

[dehro]

(Half orc) Barb1/Paladin6/Barb2/Paladin6/Barb 3(bear)/Paladin X

First ASI goes to GWM.

Vengance is wasted here with reckless attack giving advantage on-tap but Ancients works wonderfully fluff and crunch wise.

crunch I can see...fluff, I'm not sure.
I like your progression conceptually, but since hoard of the dragon queen and rise of tiamat don't really go past level 15, I'm not sure about the extreme spacing of the barbarian. Feels a bit like I might just as well go straight up paladin...

[Nhorianscum]

crunch I can see...fluff, I'm not sure.
I like your progression conceptually, but since hoard of the dragon queen and rise of tiamat don't really go past level 15, I'm not sure about the extreme spacing of the barbarian. Feels a bit like I might just as well go straight up paladin...

You're not wrong on the mono-din thing. It's strictly better. Nothing we get from barb here is worth delaying 2nd attack+find steed or find greater steed (2/13 is the last split that even gets this).

Woops. Made a typo there. Barb1/paladin6/Barb2/paladin7/barb3/paladinX (This is total levels in the class not consecutive levels)

Not going straight for auras once we start taking paladin levels feels like a waste. Picking up our key barb features (reckless at 2, totem at 3) between these is nice. Finishing out at 10 while keeping the build a barbadin from the get go ain't bad but delaying extra attack to 6 is a awkward. Again losing FGS is just bad.

A "better" barbadin would be paladin5/barb1/Paladin1/barb2/Paladin X again we delay FGS to cl15 but we do get it and are essentially playing a ride of the valkeries+ Din at our capstone of 13pala/2 barb.

[Snowbluff]

I can answer progression.

I played a Yuan Ti Paladin6 Barb3 in Curse of Strahd. Super tough against damage and effects.

I think 6 paladin and 3 barbarian is the best. I took bear totem for more resistances, which you'll want for fighting dragons (ie breath weapons). Also, remember that you keep your bear resistance to all damage types sans psychic even when in armor.

[Malifice]

I'm confused. Your statements seem contradictory..

on a more detailed note, what pays more dividends at level 5, having bear totem damage reduction or having the advantages of an oath of vengeance paladin, including channel divinity?

Being a single classed Barbarian or Paladin pays the most dividends at Level 5.

Extra attack doubles your DPR and combat effectiveness.

Nothing wrong with the MC, but ride Paladin to 5th, then dip Barbarian for a single level, then Paladin for +cha to saves then 2 more of Barbarian (and you're done).

[MThurston]

Can you burn smite while raging?

No spell casting while raging.

[Snowbluff]

Can you burn smite while raging?

No spell casting while raging.

Yes you can. It's great with reckless attack for mroe crits.

[Arkhios]

Can you burn smite while raging?

No spell casting while raging.

Most certainly you can.

Using Divine Smite is not same thing as casting spells.

[dehro]

interesting ideas and valid points all around... I'll have to stick to my plan for background reasons for these 5 levels.. I've grown quite fond of the backstory I've put together for her... other than that, I'll take on board several of your suggestions in terms of how to go from there and what's important to look out for in terms of effectiveness.

[Avonar]

I've played a Half-Orc Pal/Bar before, it worked very well. Went Paladin 2, then Barbarian 3, Paladin 5, Barbarian 3 for path then everything else Paladin. Yes it delays Extra Attack a lot but you are a very effective tank.

Rage while next to an enemy, wait until your half-orc drop to 1 ability activates, dump all your lay on hands into yourself and carry on going. It worked extremely well.

[dehro]

so.. apparently I get to level up without having actually played this new character. I missed this week's marathon session and they levelled up.
So now I'm going to go Barbarian 3/Paladin 3, to get the oath of vengeance and sort of come full circle, in terms of my established background... from there it's going to be either all paladin or all barbarian...for the foreseable future... and depending on how my god reveals itself to me.
I've decided that I don't actually know who is talking to me in my dreams and that way it's up to the DM to give a name (and a moral code for me to adhere to) to the god in question, when they'll finally decide to reveal themselves to me.

[dehro]

Rage while next to an enemy, wait until your half-orc drop to 1 ability activates, dump all your lay on hands into yourself and carry on going. It worked extremely well.

I do think this strategy will be my to go to tactic, for at least such a time that my fellow players don't know I have also paladin levels and therefore don't expect me to be al tactical, level headed and godly:smallbiggrin: