Fist Wizard

[Noxangelo]

A friend is making wizard themed around Alex Armstrong from Full Metal Alchemist with all the spells being fist themed, like "punching" touch attacks or magic missiles that look like fists. it doesn't need to be optimized just effective, as long as it has, and I quote:

"Great Fisting Power."

Any ideas?

[BloodSnake'sCha]

A friend is making wizard themed around Alex Armstrong from Full Metal Alchemist with all the spells being fist themed, like "punching" touch attacks or magic missiles that look like fists. it doesn't need to be optimized just effective, as long as it has, and I quote:

"Great Fisting Power."

Any ideas?

You can fluff al your spells as fists.

I saw FMA a long time ago but I think earth spells will be good.

[Jcp1195]

If your dm is okay with Magic Item Crafting/Homebrew it shouldn’t be too hard. Enchanting Vampiric Touch and Thunderwave into individual Handwraps so they trigger on impact would be somewhat cost efficient but time consuming to make.

Off the top of my head his best bet would honestly be maybe 6 levels Monk, 14 Wizard (If you’re doing a 20th Level game) going Way if the Four Elements and using the Remade Homebrew version of it on the Top Quality Homebrew Subredit. That way he can cause himself to punch with Fire Arms through Monk, and be able to cast Tenser’s Transformation to make himself decent in Melee.

[JellyPooga]

Does it have to be Wizard?

Storm Sorcerer, with a little right-angled imagination, could be exactly the kind of thing he's looking for...

[noob]

Ask your gm if you can get spell thematics: fist?(it is a 3.5 feat but it is not game breaking so getting a 5e version might be valid)

[Nhorianscum]

UA mystic is ideal here.

Past that I'll recommend an unarmed Vhuman (Prodigy for athletics expertise at 1) Barb1/Paladin2/Hexblade X. (Make a pact with your own fist). Raging paladin who works magic through raw charisma and worships their own fists sounds Armstrong AF to me.'

Gimmic here is AoA+Grappling+Rage for super recoil.

Full attack does some solid damage with all your riders even before smites.

Punch the air to eldrich blast.

Punch the ground (hard) to cast spells.

Punch shadows to make darkness

Punch allies to buff them.

Full nova at 15 gives 18d8+6d8+3d4+15+10+6+6+15 (167.5)/acc at advantage with improved critical range. Not the best (and it eats ALL your slots) but you could say that it uuuuh, packs a punch.

With medium armor master and a shield we get 19 base AC. A reasonable str score and expersite athletics with our buffs means we can suplex anything that can be suplexed.

Stonemasons tool prof is mandatory

[Daghoulish]

So, I'm going to just re post something I got a couple of years ago that described a way to make a muscle wizard which is somewhat like what you want. It's also all caps, but that's just how it was on the original page. I'll try to find where I found it and add it later.

MUSCLE WIZARD REBORN (5TH EDITION D&D)
DO YOU WANT BE ABLE TO DO NUCLEAR PHYSICS WHILE ALSO PUNCHING A MAN SO HARD HIS HEART EXPLODES FROM HIS CHEST?

DO YOU WANT TO DEFLECT FIREBALLS WITH YOUR RIPPLING MUSCLES?

THEN THIS IS THE BUILD FOR YOU.

HOW THIS WORKS:

FIRST, ABILITY SCORES. YOU HAVEN’T GOT TIME FOR ****TY ABILITY SCORES YOU’RE NOT GOING TO MAKE USE OF. ALL THAT DEDICATION TO THE FINE ART OF ARCANE MUSCLE HAS MADE YOU SOMEWHAT SLUGGISH, BUT WHY DODGE WHEN YOU CAN JUST TAKE THE BLOWS WITH YOU INCREDIBLE PHYSIC? ALSO. MAGICAL MUSCLES. YOUR FIRST LANGUAGE IS FIST. YOUR OTHER LANGUAGES INCLUDE WANTON VIOLENCE AND A CONSTANT NEED TO FIGHT. SO LOW WISDOM AND CHARISMA.

YOUR STARTING STATS ARE 15, 8, 15, 15, 8, 8 WITH POINT BUY. IF YOU ROLL, ALWAYS MAKE SURE YOUR STRENGTH, CONSTITUTION AND INTELLIGENCE ARE HIGH, PARTICULARLY THAT INTELLIGENCE IS AT LEAST 16 WHEN YOU GO INTO WIZARD. YOU NEED AS MANY SPELLS AS YOU CAN PREPARE. BUT, OVERALL, IT IS MOST IMPORTANT THAT YOU FOCUS ON STRENGTH.

Or you’re just a fighter who is also a NERD.

THEN CHOOSE HALF-ORC, OR, CHOOSE THE NEW KID ON THE BLOCK. GOLIATH. BOTH ARE GREAT BUT GOLIATH FITS THE MUSCLE WIZARD MANTRA FOR BEING REALLY ****ING RIPPED, AND TOSSING PEOPLE THROUGH WALLS AND DROPPING BUILDINGS ON PEOPLE WHILE ENLARGED IS FUN.

NEXT. START AS A FIGHTER. YOU’RE NOT GOING TO DO MUCH IF YOU CAN’T WEAR ARMOUR CHUMP, AND NEITHER ARE YOU GOING TO DO VERY WELL IF YOU CAN’T HIT THINGS FOR **** AND TAKE BLOWS AT LEVEL 1. ALSO, YOU WANT THE BIG TOYS. NOT A ****ING WALKING STICK.

STARTING FIGHTER GIVES YOU EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO GET RIPPED LATER ON.

LEVEL ALL THE WAY UP TO 6. WE NEED TO TAKE THIS TO 5 TO GET THE EXTRA ATTACK, BUT THAT EXTRA LEVEL SNAGS YOU SOME MORE ABILITY SCORES. NOW YOU GET THREE ABILITY SCORE INCREASES INSTEAD OF 2 BEFORE LEVEL 10 WHEN WE FINALLY START LEVELING WIZARD. ABILITY SCORES ARE PARAMOUNT TO THIS BUILD. MAKE SURE YOUR INTELLIGENCE IS 16, BUT LEVEL STRENGTH ALL THE WAY UP TO TWENTY, WHICH YOU SHOULD HAVE ACHIEVED HAVING STARTED WITH GOLIATH/HALF-ORC.

YOU ARE NOW A TRUE MUSCLE WIZARD.

GO ELDRITCH KNIGHT. YOU WANT TO START GETTING SPELLS EARLY, AND WHEN YOU FINALLY GO WIZARD, YOU’VE GOT SOME COOL **** TO PLAY WITH ALREADY. PLUS, YOU MAKE UP FOR A LACK OF LATER SPELLS WITH A TON OF 1st LEVEL SHIELDS. THAT’S HOW YOU WORK. DEFLECT BLOWS AND SPELLS AND KICK ASS. YOU ALSO DON’T HAVE TO PREPARE ANY SPELLS YOU TAKE AS EK. YOU JUST KNOW THEM. HENCE TAKING SHIELD NOW IS IMPORTANT, ALONG WITH ANY OTHER EXTRA SPELLS YOU THINK YOU’LL NEED.

ONCE YOU HIT LEVEL 7 IT’S TIME TO START LEVELLING WIZARD. AS EK, TAKE ALL ABJURATION SPELLS YOU WANT ALL THE TIME, AND A FEW HANDY EXTRAS IN CASE YOU NEED THEM. MAGE ARMOUR IS UNNECESSARY FOR YOU, BUT SHIELD IS FUNDAMENTAL TO YOUR PLAYSTYLE. MAGE ARMOUR CAN ALSO HELP YOUR FRIENDS IF THEY NEED IT.

WHEN YOU HIT WIZARD, EXPAND YOUR LEVEL LIST WITH SOME HANDY RITUALS. UTILITY SPELLS, OR JUST PUNCH GOUTS OF FIRE. DO WHAT IS YOU. BUT PRETEND YOU ARE PUNCHING FOR ALL OF THEM. THIS IS FUNDAMENTAL FOR THE MUSCLE WIZARD’S FLAVOUR. GET MEND SO YOU CAN PUNCH THINGS BACK INTO SHAPE. MAKE THE MAGIC YOURS.

WE’RE GOING ABJURATION WIZARD, BECAUSE YOU WANT THAT WARD. NO MATTER WHAT YOU SCALE FROM HERE, CON OR INT, YOU ARE GETTING HEALTH, PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU CAST YOUR SPELLS.

AND THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT.

AT LEVEL 20, YOUR MUSCLES WILL ALSO BE SO INCREDIBLY POWERFUL THAT SPELLS CAN’T EVEN HIT YOU. LIGHTENING BOUNCES OFF YOUR PECS. AND NOTHING CAN PENETRATE YOUR GENIUS LEVEL MIND. AND EVEN IF THEY DO HIT YOU, THEY BARELY SCRATCH YOU AT ALL. YOU ARE THE PERFECT SPECIMEN OF INTELLECT AND STRENGTH. WELCOME TO GOD-HOOD.

BUT LET’S WIND BACK A BIT.

THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL SPELL YOU WANT IS ENLARGE. MAINTAINING THAT SPELL IS IMPORTANT, HENCE WHY YOU ARE RIPPED AS ****, BUT A LOT OF THE MUSCLE WIZARDS POWER COMES IN THE FORM OF GRAPPLING. AS A GOLIATH, YOU CAN ALSO PICK UP IMMENSE OBJECTS WHILE ENLARGED, AND DROP THEM ON GROUPS OF ENEMIES. OR JUST THROW IT. THAT WORKS. BUT YOU SHOULD BE DISABLING MULTIPLE ENEMIES AT A TIME WITH A COMBINATION OF SHIELDS, GRAPPLING AND COUNTERSPELLS.

CONTINUE TO LEVEL WIZARD. GET THINGS TO MAKE YOU STRONGER, FASTER, OR WILL DISRUPT YOUR OPPONENTS AT EVERY TURN. ALWAYS GET ABJUCATION SPELLS TO MAINTAIN YOUR WARD. ALL THOSE FIRST LEVEL SLOTS SHOULD MAKE YOU AS DURABLE AS A BARBARIAN.

THAT’S IT. SUPER ****ING SIMPLE.

NOW GO PUNCH SOME NERDS AND STUFF. THEY CAN’T EVEN CALL YOU STUPID. BECAUSE YOU’RE SMARTER AND MORE MUSCLEY THAN THEY ARE.

QUICK GUIDE

MUSCLE WIZARD GOLIATH/HALF-ORC

Starting stats:
Str: 17
Dex: 8
Con: 16
Int: 15
Wis: 8
Cha: 8

Stats by level 6:

Str: 20
Dex: 8
Con: 16
Int: 16
Wis: 8
Cha: 8

Leveling guide: EK fighter 1-> 6, Abjuration Wizard 7->20

Spells as EK: Shield and any extras you need. They are separate from the Wizard spells, so something you’ll always want on hand.

Spells as Wizard: Anything, just choose what will make you more powerful or flavourful for a Muscle Wizard. Get ripped with Enlarge. Stop spells with Counterspell. Never get hit with Shield. Protect allies with various protection spells. Invest in spells that don’t require concentration like Fire Shield. Make yourself a menace to be near. Basically, be the perfect battlefield controller through a combination of Abjuration spells and grappling. And have fun!

[Unoriginal]

Earthen Grasp seems like a good pic.

Tavern Brawler too.

[DeTess]

How much 'fist' and how much 'wizard' does this need? I'm planning on playing a Barbarian sometime soon that either has a single level of wizard, or the ritual caster and magic initiate feats.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Why bother with any 'levels' of wizard? Your fists (http://mfov.magehandpress.com/2017/02/muscle-wizard.html) are magical enough already!

[Noxangelo]

Wow, i wasn't expecting such a massive response so quickly.

i'm seeing him tomorrow and now i have a few ideas to run by him :)

[Unoriginal]

You can also fluff all touch spells as punches. And all ranged spells' somatic components as you punching the air/shadow boxing.

[Vogie]

Radiant Soul Monk is all about fists of fire. Add a dip into Arcana cleric, and you've got yourself SO MANY FISTS

[Unoriginal]

Sun Soul Monk is great, but they're "fist" than "wizard".

[GlenSmash!]

If I were doing a Major Armstrong build UA Stone Sorcerer, or UA Giant Soul Sorcerer going Stone Giant would be the route I would take. Perfect for a High Con/High Cha character like the Major.

[strangebloke]

If I were doing a Major Armstrong build UA Stone Sorcerer, or UA Giant Soul Sorcerer going Stone Giant would be the route I would take. Perfect for a High Con/High Cha character like the Major.

Was gonna say exactly this.

Here's my build:

Variant human Stone Sorcerer 6.
16/8/18/8/8/16
starting feat: tavern brawler
First ASI: +2 CON
AC: 17 (13+CON from Stone Sorcerer)
HP: 54 (1d6+4+1 per level)

Metamagic: Twin (use with Booming Blade, Catapult[DM may object to this], Earthen Grasp), and Quicken(Use to cast a spell and then dodge or disengage or to get an extra cantrip shot.)

Spells:
cantrips:
mold earth(duh)
thunderclap(refluff as him pulling off a sweeping punch)
Booming blade(technically not kosher with just fists, but your DM will let this slide. refluff it as a shocking punch.)
level 1:
Catapult(duh. Remember that if it misses the first guy, it can still hit the guy behind him)
Wrathful Smite(duh. Remember, you can cast this, and then use booming fist.)
Shield(create a wall of earth in front of you)
Level 2:
Enhance Ability (Tank, Beguile, and lift the moon)
Maxmillian's Earthen Grasp: (self explanatory. restrain target, punch him with booming first on the following turn.)
Level 3:
Erupting Earth (Just be sure not to piss off your ranged party members)
Melf's Minute Meteors (not really synergistic with anything, but very on-theme.)

There's also a case for taking Prodigy:Athletics, but I'll leave that up to you.

Basically, when casting leveled spells you're the artillery, and when you're in close, you're a respectable melee combatant even without spending resources.

For mobility, you have quicken, which lets you fire off a spell as a bonus action and then dodge or dash or disengage away. You also have Stone Aegis which lets you shield your friend and then teleport jump right next to him when he gets attacked and deck his enemy in the face. Don't be afraid to move your Aegis around purely for the mobility enhancement.

On a final note, be sparing with your spells and sorcery points. Twinning Booming Blade is very efficient. Quickening Erupting Earth and then running in and thunder-punching someone is fun, but very expensive. Don't fire off Melf's and then run into the middle of melee; that's a good way to lose a powerful spell, although with +7 to CON saves, you're a bit safer from that than most.

[Vogie]

Since it's FMA, you could also use my Gate of Truth Patron (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=22925451&postcount=1), and create some gauntlets based on clubs to act as faux unarmed attacks. Your EBs could be refluffed as flying fists, like your idea with Magic Missile

[GlenSmash!]

snip

Dang. Nice work. Couldn't have done it better.

[strangebloke]

Dang. Nice work. Couldn't have done it better.

Thanks!

I'm quite fond of the sorcerer class, even if it is very non-intuitive at times. I really like using quicken as a way of getting off a free dodge, disengage, or dash.

I mean, think about it. Quicken costs as much as a second level spell. So quickening out a cantrip is a pretty crappy use of your resources. I mean, 2d10 as a bonus action isn't a good 2nd level spell.

But a bonus action (sorta) disengage as a 2nd level spell? That's actually pretty good, when you need it. And the nice thing there is, that you're not spending a spell known, and you're also getting a bonus action (sorta) dash and a bonus action (sorta) dodge.

Pretty sweet! I'd compare it to misty step, except that:

misty step basically grants you a dash and a disengage, and has better range.
You can still cast a spell with quicken. So you can disengage, run away, and then cast fireball.
Dodging is an underutilized action use. 17 AC might seem barely respectable, but 17 with a dodge is really hard to hit.

[GlenSmash!]

Thanks!

I'm quite fond of the sorcerer class, even if it is very non-intuitive at times. I really like using quicken as a way of getting off a free dodge, disengage, or dash.

I mean, think about it. Quicken costs as much as a second level spell. So quickening out a cantrip is a pretty crappy use of your resources. I mean, 2d10 as a bonus action isn't a good 2nd level spell.

But a bonus action (sorta) disengage as a 2nd level spell? That's actually pretty good, when you need it. And the nice thing there is, that you're not spending a spell known, and you're also getting a bonus action (sorta) dash and a bonus action (sorta) dodge.

Pretty sweet! I'd compare it to misty step, except that:

misty step basically grants you a dash and a disengage, and has better range.
You can still cast a spell with quicken. So you can disengage, run away, and then cast fireball.
Dodging is an underutilized action use. 17 AC might seem barely respectable, but 17 with a dodge is really hard to hit.


It's certainly a neat way of emulating Armstrong's agility without having to bump up Dex. Basically Charisma-ing your way out of harms way.