Stupid stupid question

[Mjolnirbear]

So. If you are looking through dim light (or you have dark vision and are looking through darkness) you have disadvantage on perception checks. No other raw effect.

If you can't see an opponent, it has advantage to attack you and you have disadvantage to attack it. You make a normal perception check to know where they are so you attack the right square.

Does it follow that players should be checking if they can see enemies in dim light, and if they can't, they have disadvantage?

I've never played it like that. Every game was always you can see, or you can't. I've never seen 'dim light' invoked unless someone is hiding and a perception check is needed.

[Mr.Spastic]

Unless the enemy can hide in light cove then no. I think. I believe dim light counts as light cover so unless your a wood elf it won't really matter. I think.

[LordEntrails]

Yea no.

Dim light makes it hard to see trip wires, cracks and things that you normally need a perception check to notice. You do not need a perception check to see a 4 foot tall (or 12 foot tall!) creature across the room from you, you do not need one to see them in dim light either (unless they can hide in dim light, as mentioned).

Note that in darkness you need a perception check (hearing) to know which square to attack, but you still get disadvantage on that attack.

[Mjolnirbear]

Yea no.

Dim light makes it hard to see trip wires, cracks and things that you normally need a perception check to notice. You do not need a perception check to see a 4 foot tall (or 12 foot tall!) creature across the room from you, you do not need one to see them in dim light either (unless they can hide in dim light, as mentioned).

Note that in darkness you need a perception check (hearing) to know which square to attack, but you still get disadvantage on that attack.

I've always seen the game played without dim light affecting your attacks. But it suddenly came to bite me and I can't sleep now lol. If you have disadvantage to see things, don't you need to check if you see your enemies? Light=you see, dark=you don't see, so dim should involve some uncertainty.

But you're probably right. You probably see the figure, just not able to see his face or race until the lighting better.

I think that satisfies the mental twitch. Ugh. Stupid midnight brain. Thwnks

[Vexacia]

If the enemies are attempting to hide, then maybe. Definitely factors into ambush situations. The perception penalty for dim light is a flat -5.

But if your players are already aware of the enemies' presence, they know the enemies are there until the enemies take the Hide action and make a successful Stealth check.

[Unoriginal]

Dim light affect WIS(Perception) checks and passive Perception.

You don't need a check to percieve someone who is not hiding. Even if this person is invisible.

[Sahe]

Dim light affect WIS(Perception) checks and passive Perception.

You don't need a check to percieve someone who is not hiding. Even if this person is invisible.

I honestly never got that. It makes no sense, especially in combat. There is so much other noise that something as simple as footsteps would be quite hard to notice.

In the end it really depends on the situation (meaning DM ruling on case by case), what senses they have, what the environment looks like (would you leave easy to see footprints?) how you move (do you dash, use your full movement or maybe only half of it, can you maybe hover for some reason?) and how much else is going on (ongoing battle, one on one duel, etc.)

[EggKookoo]

I've always seen the game played without dim light affecting your attacks. But it suddenly came to bite me and I can't sleep now lol. If you have disadvantage to see things, don't you need to check if you see your enemies? Light=you see, dark=you don't see, so dim should involve some uncertainty.

I think the confusion here is over what it means to "see" something in this context. Perception checks aren't for determining if you see something in a conventional sense. They exist to determine if you see (or hear or otherwise perceive) something that isn't immediately obvious. Otherwise you would need to make perception checks in bright light, just with a ridiculously low DC.

In a way it's like attacking. You make an attack roll when there's a reasonable chance you'd miss, which is the default case when in combat. But you typically don't call for a roll if the fighter just wants to smack a wall.

[Unoriginal]

I honestly never got that. It makes no sense, especially in combat. There is so much other noise that something as simple as footsteps would be quite hard to notice.

In the end it really depends on the situation (meaning DM ruling on case by case), what senses they have, what the environment looks like (would you leave easy to see footprints?) how you move (do you dash, use your full movement or maybe only half of it, can you maybe hover for some reason?) and how much else is going on (ongoing battle, one on one duel, etc.)

The game precises that if there is no way for someone to percieve you (ex: you're invisible, within a Silent spell, and are standing somewhere no tracks can be left), then they can't percieve you. But it's not the default assumption.

While invisible, you still breath, and move, and do noise that can still be heard even in the chaos of the battle. The enemies still have disadvantage to hit you, because they just know the 5x5ft space you're standing in, not exactly where you are.

[Laserlight]

I honestly never got that. It makes no sense, especially in combat. There is so much other noise that something as simple as footsteps would be quite hard to notice.

Well, not necessarily. We're conditioned to think that way because gunfire makes a lot of noise, but swords don't. Depending on the walking surface and how much effort they're making to be quiet, you'd hear footsteps. If they're in heavy armor, you'd probably hear the swish, slap of chain skirts swinging and hitting plate. Swords would make a dull thud or clonk when they hit. And generally you only have a few guys fighting, so there's not going to be masses of guys yelling and cheering. And no background music, unless you have a bored bard.

Of course, if you're wearing a helm, it's hard to hear, or to see anything other than what's straight in front of you. But D&D isn't about realism.