Balancing an Encounter for ECL 6 Players

[Vrel]

I am a new DM. So far things have gone really well except for one small problem: My players are walking through my encounters! This is a mixed world environment where Mecha and Magic co-exist and Goblins rule Las Vegas, so there are PCs from multiple Eras.

We have an Iron Kingdoms Demolitionist, a D20 Future Mech Jockey, a D&D Fighter, and a D&D Monk. My players are all level 6, but have equipment that raise make me figure their ECL for encounters at about 7 a piece... i have been throwing crunchy bits (Lower CR monsters as encounter padding) at them in the form of CR 3 and 4 monsters, and they just walk through them. the CR 3 Yeth hounds they faced in a catacomb with the succubus caused the most problems, and thats just because they rolled 1s and i was rolling 20s. The succubus Nearly summoned a Vrock, which would have probably been Game over for them.

My main problem is finding a balance of Fun and fear. I run a mostly undead filled campaign, and the current story arc has taken me to a place where i can use some of the MitP creatures that i particularly like.. Darkwomb Mother, for example. What is a good CR for a "Boss" of an area. I am thinking of using a spellcaster since my players all have ridiculously high AC, guarded by Moss Golems (from MitP)...Last time i put them up against a spellcaster, i forgot to guard him with Big bad Melee fighters, so the spellcaster was grappled, then silenced. That fight ended quickly.

Any suggestions or Ideas? I would very much appreciate it

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Not to spoil the party, but your campaign concept strikes me as a pretty complex for a new DM. Especially with it mixing systems. That might be part of the problem. You've got to be extremely familiar with how all the rules work from a DMing perspective to pull that kind of thing off. (However, I will assume you are at least familiar with all systems involved from a Player's perspective. If not... Man, have you got guts.)

Other than that...

I know that often times when PCs are having too easy a time with encounters is because their opponents are using tactics that are extremely sub-optimal for their abilities. Make sure your NPCs and monsters are getting the most out of their abilities. Figure out the best battle plans. Don't make them just wade into combat without any thought as to how they should be fighting.

Also, be sure to realize that an encounter where EL = party ECL is meant to be pretty easy. The PCs are fully expected to win while only expending 20% of their daily resources. (Assuming the PCs are fresh, anyway.) Not only are you supposed to mix in some below EL encounters, but you also need to throw the occasional encounter where EL > party ECL. I think the DMG recommends somewhere around 20% of an adventure's encounters should fall in that range. Remember, however that EL ≥ party ECL+5 is typically a total party kill waiting to happen. Those are ony meant for encounters where you intend the party to run.

As to boss encounters: Well, I sort of answered that above. A drop-down, drag-it-out-and-fight-with-everyone's-life-on-the-line should have an EL somewhere around party ECL+3 or 4.

[Vrel]

Thats roughly what i was thinking, but wasn't too sure. As for the environment i am running my first steady game in, it is an environment which i am very, very familiar with. It's kind of our Home brew world that all games at my house take place in. I have played in the world from a player perspective for about a year and a half every friday night, and have Run 3 guest DM games which turned out fairly well. It is a bit of a challenge, but it is very, very rewarding to see the unique mix of words colliding in an encounter.

My idea for the boss fight is that it will probably wind up being an extremely open area with lots of hiding places for a sniper to take up position. My Spellcaster will be guarded by two ogres, and as the players approach, the sniper (the actual head hauncho) will set up decoys and start taking pot shots. I'm using the Rifleman Class from Iron Kingdoms i think.. but in order to make him effective, he will be 10th level. So.........I think i'll hold off on this encounter for a while.

Maybe a CR 8 Wizard with two cr 5 melee fighters...

[Keld Denar]

Most of the time, you can figure out what to challenge your players with by calculating average party level (APL). This is a standard average (add up all levels and divide by the number of players present) but adding 1 or more if they have 6 or more players (more actions in a round scales poorly past 4-5 as power levels rise).

Once you have APL, you can easily throw encounters at them based on encounter level (EL). The rules for calculating EL are in the DMG. An EL of APL should take very few party resources. They should also reward little xp. EL +2 should be the standard encounters you should be throwing at them. EL +3s are a 1-2 a day deal, and PCs have a chance to die. EL +4 should be about the max you should have your players face, typically being a "boss fight" of sorts. I don't have my books in front of me, but calculating ELs isn't too hard, it's pretty well laid out in the DMG.

The rules for scaling ELs does break down a bit when you start throwing large amounts of certain low CR creatures at a party though. One Gauth (beholder-kin) is about CR 4, or about EL 4. 2 gauths are EL 6, 4 are EL 8 and 8 are EL 10. 8 gauths shooting 8 scorching rays at a single level 7 character is going to kill him. Easy. So use a little bit of care when calculating ELs. Encounters that fit well within the model are the boss + 3-4 mook type encounters, or double boss encounters (a pair of ogres or something like that).

GL and good gaming!

[Vrel]

One Gauth (beholder-kin) is about CR 4, or about EL 4. 2 gauths are EL 6, 4 are EL 8 and 8 are EL 10. 8 gauths shooting 8 scorching rays at a single level 7 character is going to kill him. Easy.


i had completely forgotten about beholders... You, sir, have made my day full of win and biscuits.

[Solo]

There's a level 5 Kobold build floating around that can be as strong or weak as you need for any party.

[Keld Denar]

i had completely forgotten about beholders... You, sir, have made my day full of win and biscuits.

Beholders are the floating orbs of eyes and teeth that make the world go round. How can you forget about beholders!??!!! If the beholders ever found out that you forgot about them....I do not wish that upon anyone, not even my most hated enemies.

Remember, with his 9 eyes, Big Brother is watching!

[Vrel]

There's a level 5 Kobold build floating around that can be as strong or weak as you need for any party.


punpun.... eesh.


also, beholders are for the win. the bad news is i have a character immune to gaze attacks. he uses sensors instead of sight.

[Aerlock]

also, beholders are for the win. the bad news is i have a character immune to gaze attacks. he uses sensors instead of sight.

Thats ok. As far as I can recall, few if any of the beholders attacks are gaze attacks. If however you had a couple of medusa (CR7) minions with that beholder then you might have to worry. And if worse comes to worse you could always have the beholder use the anti-magic eye on the players and then bite them to pieces.

Aerlock

P.S. Nice avatar btw. :)

[Shhalahr Windrider]

EL +2 should be the standard encounters you should be throwing at them.
Uh, the whole numbering system is based on Standard Encounter EL == Average Party Level. The whole definition of EL and CR is "Encounter appropriate for characters of this level."


Thats ok. As far as I can recall, few if any of the beholders attacks are gaze attacks.
None of them are.

The little eyes are rays. The big one is a cone.