The "Dazed" condition is too weird

[heavyfuel]

Seriously, other than mechanically, how do you even explain it?

Mechanically you can just repeat what's on the SRD, but how to explain in a way it makes sense? You can't act, but can still dodge and parry as usual. Like that makes any sense. Is this one of those things that you simply tell your players to accept and move on? Or do you actually describe in ways other than game terms?

For example, the "Shaken" condition can be easily explained with a sentence such as "Fear takes you and you feel that your body isn't responding as well as it should. You're shaken and taking -2 to basically all d20 rolls"

How would explain "Dazed" in a similar fashion?

[Crake]

have you ever stood up too fast? You can keep your balance and process the world around you, maybe even dodge a brick thrown at you, but you find it hard to really do anything active until your body catches up with you.

It's kinda like that.

[Zaq]

I agree that it's mechanically pretty weird to be able to dodge/react and not able to do anything actively. Especially given that the game has relatively clear rules for modeling "you're so focused on something you're doing proactively that you can't dodge/react," namely the AoO rules. Though I guess that dazed is perhaps intended to be the flip side of that.

I prefer the 4e version, honestly. It's similar to the effect of 3.5's slow spell (i.e., one action only), which both makes it feel less like "well, you may as well not be at the table today" and feel more like something we can explain (you're knocked out of focus and have to struggle to do what you intended to do, but you're not taken entirely out of the fight because you can indeed struggle through for a partial effect).

As for how to explain it without houseruling in another version? Maybe something like "your mind goes blank like a deer in the headlights, and it'll take you a few seconds to get enough of a grip to concentrate on what you had intended to do. Your adventurer-style martial training is keeping your reflexes active, but you're not able to come up with actions on your own for right now."

Or maybe you could riff on it a bit depending on the source of the condition and bring in, like, emotional states: "you feel an overwhelming surge of self-doubt, and you cannot convince yourself in any way that you deserve to do what you thought you were going to do. You won't just stand there and take a beating, but you don't think you can raise your own hand." Or "your thoughts race and you need to spend a few seconds going over the tactical implications of your next move. You instinctively dodge the way you always do, but you're definitely going to have to make a few more mental calculations before you can make the next part happen." Maybe even build on that last one from a different angle: "you suddenly are overcome with how unbelievably perfect your tactical genius is! You really need to spend some time admiring and considering the ramifications of your plan. You'll still dodge those pests that would seek to interfere with you, but your plans are so wonderful that they'll still be just perfect when you're done savoring what you've come up with. Can't rush art, you know."

Sure, the emotional ones aren't universally appropriate for every source of dazed, but it's something, I guess.

[daremetoidareyo]

It's probably a kin to being on the ropes in boxing. You're off balance and doing your best to cope, at least defensively. Ones flight response is overpowering their fight response, not from a standpoint of fear but one of self-preservation in the moment.

[emeraldstreak]

Maybe. Who are we to judge?

[Seto]

I'd say that your mind is reeling and you're acting mechanically, like you're not controlling your body but your reflexes take over.

[Segev]

You just can't focus enough to get an action out in the next six seconds. You might try several abortive things, but never complete them in a moment of extended indecision. Or you might be trying to get your bearings and decide what to do. You can still react to impetus, being able to take definite action to things that trigger reflexes and require no decision-making (it's not like "I don't think I'll bother flinching from this attack" is a thing that people stop and deliberate). You just don't do anything meaningfully proactive for that round.

[Thunder999]

I think it might be more like a variety of things with the same effects, virtually nothing is immune, but things might be immune to what causes it.
So while the daze cantrip simply overwhelms your mind leaving you unable to do much beyond reflexively react, celerity is you pinching conscious action from your future self and another effect might be you just desperately trying to defend yourself (say pathfinder's dazing spell, where an offensive spell is so overwhelming that you're too busy staying alive to fight back)

[lylsyly]

As one whom is usually "in" a dazed condition ...

Has anyone seen my bong?


I don't know, have you ever been in a brawl? You can be knocked silly and still manage to dodge the next blow - as long as you don't have to think about it that is! Anything that requires an iota of thought gets left by the wayside.

[liquidformat]

I think it is pretty straight forward if you have ever gotten high or a concussion before. Heck even snow blind has a similar affect...

[Thurbane]

In a game where you can still make Reflex saves when you are asleep, I don't have much of a problem with Dazed...

Although I agree that Dazed is pretty superfluous: Stunned covers the situation well enough not to require a poor cousin.

[ezekielraiden]

Action without thought.

Anyone who's spent even a little time actually learning to fight (I took some fencing long ago) knows you have damn near autonomic reflexes to protect yourself. Sometimes those reflexes are useful. Other times they'll hold you back or even cause you harm. A lot of the (baseline) learning in various martial arts is really unlearning many deeply-ingrained reflexes.

Daze allows you to defend yourself "as normal," narratively, because you're still able to have reflexive, autonomic self-protection. Even when the mind cannot consciously act, it can unconsciously (or perhaps subconsciously) process information and react accordingly.

Yes, this is an odd rule that requires some thought before its reasonable "in-world meaning" becomes clear. This will happen with any ruleset that tries to be sufficiently comprehensive.

(Of course, when 4e had flaws like this, people raised a hue and cry; when 3e shows flaws like this, people justify and excuse. I'm not salty or anything.)

[BWR]

It makes perfect sense to me. Your executive function is momentarily out of order, but you can still react to clear and present danger and make some basic movement. If you've been in a fight and taken a few blows that shake you, if you're caught in a sudden crisis and stand around aimlessly trying to process everything and figure out what to do, if you're very tired and can't think straight or do anything beyond 'take one more step'.

[Asmotherion]

Not at all. it's 3.5 phrasing to describe the combination of a small magically induced concussion and a brain-fart combined.

Personally i imagine it as spending your turn having a mild headache and/or generally having trouble to concentrate on what is in front of you.

[Troacctid]

I mean it's like literally just the English meaning of the word, isn't it?


dazed adjective
\ˈdāzd \
Definition of dazed
: unable to think clearly or act normally due to injury, shock, bewilderment, fatigue, etc.
After a particularly fierce blow, he crawled to his feet, too dazed to rush.
— Jack London
She sat confused and dazed after hearing the news.
also : characteristic of one who is dazed
had a dazed look on her face

[Thurbane]

In language terms, it's pretty interchangeable with Stunned, isn't it?

[Doctor Awkward]

How would explain "Dazed" in a similar fashion?

Ever get punched square in the bridge of your nose in the face in real life? That dizzying sensation that blurs your vision? It's like that.

Your character took a solid hit and you got rocked. You aren't doing much but defending yourself while you get your bearings back.

[ezekielraiden]

In language terms, it's pretty interchangeable with Stunned, isn't it?

Depends how "pretty interchangable" you're willing to accept. You can be dazed by fatigue, but I wouldn't use the word "stunned" for that. Similarly, an electric shock would almost exclusively be referred to as stunning, not dazing. (We have "stun guns" not "daze guns," though near-rhyme may be partially at fault there).

I would even go so far as to say that, where the two do overlap, "stunned" would be considered more severe. Which IIRC is how it cashes out in game.

[Thunder999]

The difference between the use of stunned and dazed IRL is the same as in the game, dazed people react, but without thinking, stunned people do nothing at all, also think of people doing things "in a daze." Dazed is sort of like being in shock.

[Segev]

Commadore Becket of Pirates of the Carribian was dazed during his death scene. He was able to react; he walked down some steps, and nothing suggests he couldn't have dodged or applied his dex bonus if any of the flying shrapnel wasn't already missing him. He just couldn't act beyond near-mindlessly muttering to himself, "It was only business."

[Doctor Awkward]

Commadore Becket of Pirates of the Carribian was dazed during his death scene. He was able to react; he walked down some steps, and nothing suggests he couldn't have dodged or applied his dex bonus if any of the flying shrapnel wasn't already missing him. He just couldn't act beyond near-mindlessly muttering to himself, "It was only business."

Cutler Beckett was nobleman: a lord and governor from the East India Trading Company. He wasn't an enlisted man and didn't have a military rank.

And he was delirious with fear and indecision more so than he was dazed.

[Faily]

Seconding the comparisons to being on the defensive until you get your bearings.

Having done competitive fighting (karate), I can very well relate to the feeling of being Dazed - where you're unable to do anything proactive, but you're managing to just keep up and keep your guard up. Usually after getting a smack in the head or a hit to the gut that knocked out some of your air.

[Seneschul]

OP: Do you accept that Stun is a real thing?

If yes, Great.

Daze is a partial stun.

If no, we have no common ground and there is no resolution possible.

[Ramza00]

A daze is a loss of concentration.

Your mind blanks and you lose the train of thought, motivation, follow through, inertia, etc. This can be mental, or physical that causes this effect (like someone said above head trauma by boxing can put us in a daze effect.)

[ericgrau]

It's kind of like shaken/frightened/panicked/cowering I suppose.

dazed/stunned/paralyzed (w/ characteristic helpless)
checked/blown away/knocked down
fatigued/exhausted
grappling/pinned
kneeling/prone
dazzled/blind
...

D&D sure likes its sub-conditions.