Help with understanding 5e

[Riftwolf]

Hi, my friend is running a 5e game for a youth group and has asked for some help (she's played a few games but it's first time running). I've looked at the srd and think my knowledge of pathfinder/3.5 is a good starting point. I suggested, as a simple way to start dming, that her and I put together an Arena tournament for the characters, with monsters entering to fight, and depending on how the team entertains the crowds, they get thrown potions and such to help them.
I'm running into a few sticking points, though.
The four players want to play as a Centaur Barbarian, a Air Genasi (no class chosen yet), a Catkin (no class yet) and a Changeling Ranger/Rogue. I can't see anything on srd about Changelings, Genasi or playing as monsters. Are there rules in an additional book? Will a Centaur be on the same playing level as the other three or will he trash cr1 creatures as his 3.5 version would?
Any suggestions for what creatures would make interesting fights, rather than rock-em sock-em robot fights? I don't want anything too complicated to run as my friends very much a newbie (and I don't fully understand how 5e spells work yet), but the fights should be varied enough to keep the group engaged for the session (which will be 1 1/2hrs)

[Man_Over_Game]

Hi, my friend is running a 5e game for a youth group and has asked for some help (she's played a few games but it's first time running). I've looked at the srd and think my knowledge of pathfinder/3.5 is a good starting point. I suggested, as a simple way to start dming, that her and I put together an Arena tournament for the characters, with monsters entering to fight, and depending on how the team entertains the crowds, they get thrown potions and such to help them.
I'm running into a few sticking points, though.
The four players want to play as a Centaur Barbarian, a Air Genasi (no class chosen yet), a Catkin (no class yet) and a Changeling Ranger/Rogue. I can't see anything on srd about Changelings, Genasi or playing as monsters. Are there rules in an additional book? Will a Centaur be on the same playing level as the other three or will he trash cr1 creatures as his 3.5 version would?
Any suggestions for what creatures would make interesting fights, rather than rock-em sock-em robot fights? I don't want anything too complicated to run as my friends very much a newbie (and I don't fully understand how 5e spells work yet), but the fights should be varied enough to keep the group engaged for the session (which will be 1 1/2hrs)

Lots of things to cover!

It's important to note that there is Official and Unofficial content. Unearthed Arcana (often labeled as UA) is Unofficial, with the intent that it's being playtested to see if it can earn its worth as official content.

Other things are listed in different books, so they might not be available from normal sources.

For example, Air Genasi and Tabaxi (catkin) are official, but not in the standard book.

Centaurs have just finished their time as UA, and have been released in the newest official Ravnica book that just came out.

Changelings are not actually official creatures, being UA. Anything that's UA can be viewed online on Wizards of the Coast's website.

------

In 5e, your race isn't nearly as important as your class, so the Centaur, being a Centaur, won't run into too many problems regarding their race.

As a Barbarian, they usually are very simple and very powerful early on, and taper out in power the further you go, trading their ridiculous damage and sustainability for completely denying death and resisting burst damage.

------

If you have any other questions, just let us know!

[DMThac0]

I believe, and this is just my approach at teaching people how to DM, that you should make everything as simple as possible and a one-shot for the first game.

In your situation I'd set the rules as such:

1: Pregenerated characters

A: If the players create their own, only characters/classes from the PHB
2: These will be scrapped after this game is over, they will not carry over.
3: This is a game to get comfortable with the DM chair as well as learning how the table as a whole interacts.
4: This is not the time for critical feedback, any feedback should be done in generalized terms as the DM is brand new.
5: The DM is the final say, right or wrong, bring any issues up after the game.

The idea here is to get the jitters, fears, and confusion part of DMing out of the way. Every experienced DM is comfortable with, or at least aware of, the fact that we make mistakes all the time. The trick is to be able to accept that and keep the game going without much issue. The feedback many DMs want from their games is actually a detriment to the new DM, especially if it's their first game. They are usually afraid of failing and making mistakes, so to hear the table go "You should have done X", "I had a DM who did X and it was better", those types of things may scare off the new DM. The only person who should give feedback, for the first couple games, is you since you're the one who's trying to help groom them for the DM mantle.

[Riftwolf]

Thanks, I've cced my friend into this thread (she's not a forum member). Does the Arena idea sound good for a one-shot session? I think it'd be a shame to completely scrap the characters as I've always had a soft spot for weird and wonderful PCs over humans, but if stuff is still in beta or would pose problems for a new DM, it'd be better to stick to mundane PCs for now :(
I think I can figure enough out about mechanics to put together pre-gen characters; my friend and I are Internet friends, and I don't have the books, so I might have to post stuff up here for proof-reading, if someone can look over it.

Also looking through monster entries in srd, they have resistances listed but I can't find what the resistances mean (there's no numbers like 3.5). Do resistances work differently in 5e?

[Man_Over_Game]

Thanks, I've cced my friend into this thread (she's not a forum member). Does the Arena idea sound good for a one-shot session? I think it'd be a shame to completely scrap the characters as I've always had a soft spot for weird and wonderful PCs over humans, but if stuff is still in beta or would pose problems for a new DM, it'd be better to stick to mundane PCs for now :(
I think I can figure enough out about mechanics to put together pre-gen characters; my friend and I are Internet friends, and I don't have the books, so I might have to post stuff up here for proof-reading, if someone can look over it.

Arenas are usually a bit boring. "I move in circles, shooting" "Then I run towards you and punch you". Repeat until someone dies.

Arenas CAN be fun, but you need to introduce multiple forms of minor mechanics in there. Difficult Terrain is harder to walk through, and Cover can be utilized to dodge long ranged attacks and to Hide for some stealth maneuvers.

Consider having this be some kind of inter-planar arena. There's a giant chassis from a robot that was in the arena that they never bothered to remove, so it serves as Cover. There's a section of the ground that was once sand, until a Burning Hands spell turned it into glass, making it into Difficult Terrain. There are a few boulders around the Arena that can serve as Cover, too, as well as a few throwing weapons buried in the sand randomly.

Having someone build around being a ranged character means they'll need *some* way of keeping distance, and things like Difficult Terrain can really help with that without being overly complicated (Difficult Terrain just costs x2 of much movement to cross).

[Willie the Duck]

Does the Arena idea sound good for a one-shot session?

It is very straightforward, but it doesn't highlight a huge part of what the game is about (or certainly best at). 5e is definitely a combat game like 3e, in-as-much-as all the classes belong in combat and combat is not inherently the option of last resort. However, it really isn't set up for arena brawls. As an example, some abilities work indefinitely (3e fighter style), while others work a couple of time per 'short rest' (closest analogs are Tome of Battle Maneuvers or 3e barbarian rages which last X rounds and then leave the barbarian tired 'until the end of the encounter'), and others work a certain number of times per 'long rest' (overnight, like spells in 3e). Each class has a different mixture of these things, and it's supposed to even out because the average adventuring day will have X encounters (depending on CR), with the expectation of 2-3 short rests and one long rest at the end. An Arena kills that. Moreover, it only shows people how to fight, not how to search for traps or unlock treasure chests or negotiate with shopkeepers or track a pack of blink dogs or whatever.


I think it'd be a shame to completely scrap the characters as I've always had a soft spot for weird and wonderful PCs over humans, but if stuff is still in beta or would pose problems for a new DM, it'd be better to stick to mundane PCs for now :(

Nah! honestly, 'Aarocokra Valor Bard level 3' is a heck of a lot less complex than plenty of the bizarre multiclass combos that show up here. If anything, what I'd suggest you steer clear of for intro characters is multi-classing. Feats maybe too for people's first characters, but not nearly as much so. It is the massive number of flipping back between class descriptions (plus remembering what is based on class level and what is based on total level) that I'm thinking of.

[DMThac0]

Tagging along with Man_Over_Game:

The terrain being all sorts of different things is perfect for allowing the players and DM to learn how to interact with those obstacles and items. Good spell usage could make some interesting combinations with the terrain and the cover or vantage points could really affect how the different classes might address combat changes.

The other thing to play around with, again just to make things interesting:

Vents/Ports that will intermittently blast exhaust/steam in the form of a fog cloud that moves through the arena creating cover/visibility issues.

Random spouts of fire or electricity due to bad pipes and wires that will hit somewhere in the arena.

Have the field shift due to turbulence or something making it so the loose objects could move around the field, changing the floor layout every so often. Also the objects moving would be a danger requiring DEX saves and bludgeoning/piercing damage on fail. Maybe even STR checks to move the objects once they've become dislodged.

[Unoriginal]

think my knowledge of pathfinder/3.5 is a good starting point.

The games are fundamentally different. The holdover assumptions of 3.PF are only going to make understanding 5e harder, you should try looking at it as the entirely new game it is.

Seriously, terms which are similar between editions will have different meanings now.


I can't see anything on srd about Changelings, Genasi

They're in different supplements.



or playing as monsters. Are there rules in an additional book? Will a Centaur be on the same playing level as the other three or will he trash cr1 creatures as his 3.5 version would?

The recently released "Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica" book has the player version of the Centaur. Those centaurs are on par with the other player races.

Which mean that they're likely to get trashed by one CR 1 creature if they try to solo it.



Any suggestions for what creatures would make interesting fights, rather than rock-em sock-em robot fights? I don't want anything too complicated to run as my friends very much a newbie (and I don't fully understand how 5e spells work yet), but the fights should be varied enough to keep the group engaged for the session (which will be 1 1/2hrs)

Would they face the monsters as a group or individually?

[ad_hoc]

Hi, my friend is running a 5e game for a youth group and has asked for some help (she's played a few games but it's first time running). I've looked at the srd and think my knowledge of pathfinder/3.5 is a good starting point.

In my experience, the people who have the toughest time learning and understanding 5e are 3.5e players.



I suggested, as a simple way to start dming, that her and I put together an Arena tournament for the characters, with monsters entering to fight, and depending on how the team entertains the crowds, they get thrown potions and such to help them.

This is a terrible idea. 5e is built around 3 pillars of play - Combat, Social Interaction, and Exploration.

The easiest way for someone to learn how to DM is to run a published adventure. (Really, a lot of people on this board should just run one to learn how to actually play.)

The Starter Set has a great one.



I'm running into a few sticking points, though.
The four players want to play as a Centaur Barbarian, a Air Genasi (no class chosen yet), a Catkin (no class yet) and a Changeling Ranger/Rogue. I can't see anything on srd about Changelings, Genasi or playing as monsters. Are there rules in an additional book? Will a Centaur be on the same playing level as the other three or will he trash cr1 creatures as his 3.5 version would?

Just don't play with any of that. Stick to PHB.




Any suggestions for what creatures would make interesting fights, rather than rock-em sock-em robot fights? I don't want anything too complicated to run as my friends very much a newbie (and I don't fully understand how 5e spells work yet), but the fights should be varied enough to keep the group engaged for the session (which will be 1 1/2hrs)

Nothing is interesting about this.

5e makes for a terrible strategy game.

I've seen new players pick up and run 5e. It's an intuitive game. What it isn't, is 3.5e. Bringing that baggage in will make it confusing at best.

[Unoriginal]

5e makes for a terrible strategy game.

I've seen new players pick up and run 5e. It's an intuitive game. What it isn't, is 3.5e. Bringing that baggage in will make it confusing at best.

This is very true.

[Tvtyrant]

If you want to do an arena thing the prior edition would be better. 5E combat is not the full focus of the edition and the group will likely get bored with no consequences.

I would do a classic one shot scenario such as:
Children keep going missing in village.
Party has to talk to village members to find out who is doing it.
Village priest or mayor is selling them to a monster up in the abandoned castle a few miles away.
Forest scene.
Castle exploring, traps and rats.
Dungeon with boss monster.
Kids are saved.

[Keravath]

An arena battle does one thing well ... introduce players to combat. However, although an important part of the game, that is not what the game is about.

Instead ... I would either grab the intro module Lost Mines of Phandelver which is generally reasonably well written or develop a short one shot adventure based around an idea like one of the following :

Scene 1: Roleplay and acquire information
- party intro - meet in a bar/inn/meeting place
- hired/recruited to perform some task

a) Guard caravan
b) Guard NPC
c) Deliver item
d) Investigate some event - damage/disappearances/monster attacks on farms
e) Recover something missing - recover stolen goods - recover item from tomb or graveyard - recover item from cave outside town
f) Find and defeat specific monster/bandits etc

Scene 2: Explore/travel/social
- perform some tasks on way to mission objective

Scene 3: Investigate/combat
- reach objective
- investigate/inspect situation
- deal with problem/fight bad guy

3a ... additional encounters/puzzles/problems are possible in resolving objectives

Scene 4: Complete mission/collect rewards

Depending on how quickly it goes you can incorporate one or more of the mission objectives. Folks should be encouraged to talk/explore/interact as well as make decisions quickly during combat (though explain thier options first).

Basically, creating a set of simple scenarios will expose new players to the different types of play possible as well as exposing them to the different systems for roleplaying and resolving combat. An arena scenario is less likely to have broad appeal to players unless they all come from a specific background.

[lunaticfringe]

Resistance in 5e means you half that type of Damage.

Don't make Sneak Attack more complicated than it is, cunning Rogues are supposed be able to get Sneak Attack every turn. This is my big pet peeve w/ 3.PF players new to 5e and it's pretty common.