Comprehensive Combat Tweaks: Feedback Wanted

[mer.c]

Hi Playgrounders!

I've spent a year and change working on some combat tweaks on and off. I've discussed a number of them on the forums here and incorporated a lot of great feedback, so I wanted to post the current list here to see what people think and what could be improved.

Here's a link to the Google doc (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1iZoC-btHFCq8MWrpEQ3ve-29FAz_aG-8l0LDksMyH1E/edit?usp=sharing). I also have a pretty comprehensive Excel sheet to calculate damage and allow tweaking of all the relevant parameters, which I can mine data from as requested.

Generally, my aim is to bring some of the overperformers down somewhat, bring some weaker options up to snuff, and retool some balance/thematic oddities. Everything that's great should still be and feel great; there should just be more viable, competitive options.

Happy to answer and questions, and even happier to receive feedback! And thanks in advance!

[Trustypeaches]

Heavy Armor
It seems weird to nerf Heavy Armor when it’s generally only a teensy bit better than Medium Armor, especially when you made the penalty for using heavy armor without the necessary strength so crippling.

Two Weapon Fighting
This seems extremely strong, and perhaps it should be limited to once per turn or suffer a worse accuracy penalty.

Paladin Divine Smite
I really don't like this change unless you adjusted the damage of these smite spells accordingly.

[Man_Over_Game]

Is there any way you can post the information on here? My mobile device doesn't work well with Google Docs.

[mer.c]

Thanks for the feedback!


Heavy Armor
It seems weird to nerf Heavy Armor when it’s generally only a teensy bit better than Medium Armor, especially when you made the penalty for using heavy armor without the necessary strength so crippling.

I'm not sure how heavy armor is nerfed in this, unless I'm missing something. Could you elaborate? The only things I'm seeing are a nerf if you're wearing it while significantly under the strength requirements (by 3 or more), or if you're finding the heaviest armor at level 1 or 2. but even then you're back at RAW by level 3.


Two Weapon Fighting
This seems extremely strong, and perhaps it should be limited to once per turn or suffer a worse accuracy penalty.

It's indeed very strong, but within a couple percent as strong as GWF—either under or over depending on your level, class, and enemy AC. The lower base damage than GWF (4.5 vs. 8.49) and -20% hit chance really level out the damage. Although the 1x turn limit is a great idea if it needs to be brought down. (FWIW, the scaling of TWF falls behind GWM slightly on with Fighters' 3rd and 4th attacks, hence the level-20 buff.)


Paladin Divine Smite
I really don't like this change unless you adjusted the damage of these smite spells accordingly.

Is that due to the spells being too powerful? I'll have another look at them, although IIRC there are one or two standouts, and then a bunch that between poor damage and disrupting your precious concentration don't really pull their weight. I'd prefer to have them not eat concentration, and have them be powered appropriately.

Thanks again for the feedback!


Is there any way you can post the information on here? My mobile device doesn't work well with Google Docs.

Give me one second to try to work something out. :)

[mer.c]

Here's a downloadable PDF (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1YLSKs4_xBV6Gu2tACfuKufSsJwFjhf1V) for anyone having trouble with the Google Docs version. Let me know if that helps!

[Trustypeaches]

I'm not sure how heavy armor is nerfed in this, unless I'm missing something. Could you elaborate? The only things I'm seeing are a nerf if you're wearing it while significantly under the strength requirements (by 3 or more), or if you're finding the heaviest armor at level 1 or 2. but even then you're back at RAW by level 3.It’s not a “Nerf” but not giving it to players until level 3 doesn’t make much sense IMO. Why?



Is that due to the spells being too powerful? I'll have another look at them, although IIRC there are one or two standouts, and then a bunch that between poor damage and disrupting your precious concentration don't really pull their weight. I'd prefer to have them not eat concentration, and have them be powered appropriately.No, that’s my point: those spells mostly stink and you’re trading Divine Smite for them, an unnecessary nerf.

[mer.c]

It’s not a “Nerf” but not giving it to players until level 3 doesn’t make much sense IMO. Why?

It eliminates the weirdness of "My Wizard 1/Fighter 1 can't wear heavy armor, but my Fighter 1/Wizard 1 can" while moderating the power of the Fighter dip like WotC intended with that odd MC proficiency sytem. I'd be very surprised if having to wait for 3rd level for 200-gp splint mail or 1500-gp plate mail came up.


No, that’s my point: those spells mostly stink and you’re trading Divine Smite for them, an unnecessary nerf.

I think you're misunderstanding something. Divine Smite still exists in its usual capacity. I just didn't transcribe the full ability because none of the PHB ability text was changed. I'll make that clearer in the document.

[Trustypeaches]

I think you're misunderstanding something. Divine Smite still exists in its usual capacity. I just didn't transcribe the full ability because none of the PHB ability text was changed. I'll make that clearer in the document.Ah, then it's fine.

I don't know that I'd have the paladin automatically learn those spells though. I'd just change the spells themselves to be something you can activate after a melee attack.

[mer.c]

Ah, then it's fine.

I don't know that I'd have the paladin automatically learn those spells though. I'd just change the spells themselves to be something you can activate after a melee attack.

Agreed; I should actually change that! Initially, I had it worded that you could spend your reaction on it, but other pointed out (rightly) that there as no precedent at the time for using your reaction on your own turn. However, IIRC the Circle of Spores has done that now (even if it's in UA), so I'm cool with just swapping them to be reaction-based.

Good tip; thanks! :)

[Trustypeaches]

Agreed; I should actually change that! Initially, I had it worded that you could spend your reaction on it, but other pointed out (rightly) that there as no precedent at the time for using your reaction on your own turn. However, IIRC the Circle of Spores has done that now (even if it's in UA), so I'm cool with just swapping them to be reaction-based.

Good tip; thanks! :)Circle of spores is official now. It was published in Guildmaster Guide to Ravnica.

You can use any reaction based ability on your turn, if the conditions qualify. If you use dissonant whispers to force an enemy to flee out of your melee range, you can take an opportunity attack on them. Or if you walk out of an enemies range, you can use Shield on their opportunity attack.

[mer.c]

Circle of spores is official now. It was published in Guildmaster Guide to Ravnica.

You can use any reaction based ability on your turn, if the conditions qualify. If you use dissonant whispers to force an enemy to flee out of your melee range, you can take an opportunity attack on them. Or if you walk out of an enemies range, you can use Shield on their opportunity attack.
Very good points. I'll just give that a change; thanks!