Warforged Integrated Tool - vEhIcLeS aRe ToOlS

[Greywander]

So I've just been looking at WGtE for the first time, and happened across the Warforged section. Looks like a solid race option, I especially like the Envoy subrace. I was thinking about the Integrated Tool feature, and realized that vehicles (land and water) are technically on the tool list, and are generally treated as tool proficiencies.

So of course the best course of action is to turn yourself into a cart and demand that the party get a mule to pull you, despite the fact that you still retain your movement speed. You can use your free expertise to perform sweet tricks.

Oh, but it gets better. All using your "tool" requires is a free hand, nothing else about you changes. So not only can you still move under your own power, but you can also do things like speak, cast spells, or attack with a weapon. So you can be a talking, self-driving cart with an arm growing out of it that hits people who get too close.

But wait, there's more. Vehicles, land or water, aren't a single "tool", but rather an entire suite of "tools". Now, a sane person would say that this is obviously grounds to disallow making a vehicle your Integrated "Tool", but insane troll logic would reject that interpretation and say instead that this obviously means you can turn into all of the vehicles in that category (not at the same time, we do have some standards). Since there's no category for air vehicles, we have to consider what would be the most appropriate proficiency for things like airships, spaceships, and submarines. Obviously subs are just boats, so they already work with vehicles (water), but airships and spaceships would be more similar to a ship (duh, it's in the name even) than to something like a wagon or cart. So this obviously means we can turn into those, too.

Insane troll logic aside, I'd probably allow someone to have an integrated cart or rowboat if they really wanted to go that route. And if I was feeling generous, I might allow them to upgrade to a better vehicle as long as they actually pay for the darn thing, and probably spend at least a long rest integrating it into themselves. And only one at a time, so if you have the warship integrated that means you can't turn into the smaller rowboat anymore unless you switch back.

Gaming sets are also tools. How does that even work. Is it easier to cheat when the dice are literally part of your body? Wait, yes it is, because you get free expertise. Talk about an Optimus Crime.

[lunaticfringe]

My idea for Envoy with integrated Land vehicles is basically a hitch, the warforged is the horse/motor. The idea was to go monk for speed and eventually the ability to run a cart up walls (after securing the cargo) and across water. Who needs a horse?

[Kadesh]

>Oh, but it gets better. All using your "tool" requires is a free hand, nothing else about you changes.
Incorrect.

'Choose one tool you're proficient with. This tool is integrated into your body, and you double your proficiency bonus for any ability checks you make with it. You must have your hands free to use this integrated tool.'
You must have your hands free to use them. No you cannot change into all. You cannot change into anything whatsoever as long as it is the same profociency, as there is nothing to say it is hidden, it is simply there. You are not a transformer.

None of what you suggest happens.

Also, they are not Tools, they are Mounts and Vehicles.

[Greywander]

You must have your hands free to use them.
Ah, you're right. I'm so used to seeing the phrase "you need a free hand" that jumped the gun and assumed that it only required one free hand.


None of what you suggest happens.
Not with that attitude it doesn't.


My idea for Envoy with integrated Land vehicles is basically a hitch, the warforged is the horse/motor. The idea was to go monk for speed and eventually the ability to run a cart up walls (after securing the cargo) and across water. Who needs a horse?
But, I mean, couldn't you do that anyway, if you really wanted to? How does integrating the hitch help you if you still need the cart? And if you have a cart and hitch, you can already pull it (assuming your STR score is high enough). I don't really see what you gain by integrating the hitch and only the hitch.

[Sigreid]

Go, go Gadget Oxcart!!

[Griswold]

Why stop there when vehicle (air) exists in Eberron for sky coaches and airships?

[Bloodcloud]

Transformer warforged does sound silly yet interesting...

I like the idea of the integrated hitch too.

But again, this is all very silly.

[lunaticfringe]

Ah, you're right. I'm so used to seeing the phrase "you need a free hand" that jumped the gun and assumed that it only required one free hand.


Not with that attitude it doesn't.


But, I mean, couldn't you do that anyway, if you really wanted to? How does integrating the hitch help you if you still need the cart? And if you have a cart and hitch, you can already pull it (assuming your STR score is high enough). I don't really see what you gain by integrating the hitch

Yeah but Vehicles are actual items that often have costs higher than other tools and sizes bigger than medium. I had the integrated Vehicles(land/water) idea a few weeks ago. Transforming into vehicles got wonky to my DM's eye, but I have no problem with a Warforged merging/connecting/coupling with a vehicle to gain control of it/make it operational.

So a Warforged with integrated Vehicles(Water) could hook up to a boat and become something like an outboard motor.

[RedMage125]

Yeah but Vehicles are actual items that often have costs higher than other tools and sizes bigger than medium. I had the integrated Vehicles(land/water) idea a few weeks ago. Transforming into vehicles got wonky to my DM's eye, but I have no problem with a Warforged merging/connecting/coupling with a vehicle to gain control of it/make it operational.

So a Warforged with integrated Vehicles(Water) could hook up to a boat and become something like an outboard motor.
This is actually what I've been picturing this whole time in the thread. Only for a ship, it would be more like replacing the helm than an "outboard motor". Hell, as it is in Eberron, some ships already have an "outboard motor" in the form of a bound air elemental at the aft end of the ship so it blows into the sail from behind. A lot of them have water elementals bound into the keel, too, which also adds to speed.

[lunaticfringe]

This is actually what I've been picturing this whole time in the thread. Only for a ship, it would be more like replacing the helm than an "outboard motor". Hell, as it is in Eberron, some ships already have an "outboard motor" in the form of a bound air elemental at the aft end of the ship so it blows into the sail from behind. A lot of them have water elementals bound into the keel, too, which also adds to speed.

Yeah there is no Vehicles(Airship), but that is what I pictured for elemental airships. The outboard motor was for skiff & rowboat scenarios.

Bigger stuff they could jack in to the helm directly like Melphina from Outlaw Star.

[Cicciograna]

So essentially you would get this.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/darkwingduck/images/9/95/Gizmoduck.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100130104939

[KyleG]

Go gizmo duck. Still.. a transformer would be cool

[Kadesh]

>none of what you suggest happens
>only if I follow the rules it does
Decent argument.

[RedMage125]

>none of what you suggest happens
>only if I follow the rules it does
Decent argument.

That may just be the most amusing way I've ever heard someone admit that they were mistaken.

Thank you, that made my day.

[Tetrasodium]

Keith baker & others covered this one. The basics of it are that the warforged integrated tool thing was designed & intended to be used with the tools on phb154. The expanded tool proficiencies in xge were not intended but you could ask your gm & see what they think about the idea.

[lunaticfringe]

Keith baker & others covered this one. The basics of it are that the warforged integrated tool thing was designed & intended to be used with the tools on phb154. The expanded tool proficiencies in xge were not intended but you could ask your gm & see what they think about the idea.

Vehicles (land or water) does appear on the Tools table on pg.154 of the Phb. The expanded rules can be used to gather additional information or have additional knowledge. EX. Someone with Vehicles(land) could search a cart for clues someone may have missed in an investigation. Or someone with Vehicles(Water) could have information about an island.I

It doesn't make sense for you to properly identify a wooden casket from antiquity because your hand has a pop-out belt sander; I believe is the intent. Which has no real bearing on operating or becoming a Wagon.

Also I'm pretty sure everyone here is aware this is a check with your DM thing.

[Mr.Spastic]

\Gaming sets are also tools. How does that even work. Is it easier to cheat when the dice are literally part of your body? Wait, yes it is, because you get free expertise. Talk about an Optimus Crime.

You have become the walking casino. The card tricks you could do though.

All I can think of is a Phineas and Ferb scene where Ferb breaks physics while shuffling cards by having them make right turns in mid air.

[Kadesh]

That may just be the most amusing way I've ever heard someone admit that they were mistaken.

Thank you, that made my day.

The irony being it was meant to say doesn't but SwiftKey played up.

[Laserlight]

You just get one integrated tool, though, not a whole set, right? I'm picturing a warforged cook who has, with much thought, narrowed it down to "the spatula, or the bottle of paprika?" and just can't decide which is his final choice.

[KyleG]

Is it easier to cheat when the dice are literally part of your body? Wait, yes it is, because you get free expertise. Talk about an Optimus Crime.

im picturing the dice either hanging between his legs (hehe) or around his neck like they are hanging in a rear view mirror.

[Zanthy1]

For Vehicles (air) I am thinking Karn from Magic the Gathering, when he integrates with the Skyship Weatherlight (for the ships maiden voyage to Serra's Realm to save the remaining Serrans from their Phyrexian controlled oppressors). Like, the Weatherlight can operate without Karn (as seen in a majority of the time after said voyage, with notable captains such as Sisay and Gerrard), but when Karn plugs himself in it can do so much more! Think like Outlaw Star level more.

Side note: Karn is totally an envoy warforged and I am so making him

[RedMage125]

The irony being it was meant to say doesn't but SwiftKey played up.

Oh, I figured you were admitting you made a mistake. I mean, "not being a transformer" should be a given, but Vehicles ARE Tool Proficiencies, and a warforged could integrate INTO one, like to steer it or whatever*. I think that's be pretty dope.

*I think it should be obvious that such a vehicle would have to have been made for this purpose by House Cannith. The vehicle would have a "jack" of some kind for the warforged to "plug" into.

It's creative, and doesn't actually violate any rules.

[Foxhound438]

I don't see how there could be any confusion about whether or not this would work

https://d2w9rnfcy7mm78.cloudfront.net/1913062/large_d9f070edbf90eb34bf18781089f421a6.jpg?1521432 039

[GlenSmash!]

Hmm. Juggernaut Warforged, Soldier Background, Paladin.

"Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" makes a pretty decent oath.

[Kadesh]

Oh, I figured you were admitting you made a mistake. I mean, "not being a transformer" should be a given, but Vehicles ARE Tool Proficiencies, and a warforged could integrate INTO one, like to steer it or whatever*. I think that's be pretty dope.

*I think it should be obvious that such a vehicle would have to have been made for this purpose by House Cannith. The vehicle would have a "jack" of some kind for the warforged to "plug" into.

It's creative, and doesn't actually violate any rules.

Oh, no. Why would I be admitting I'd be wrong when vehicles are not Included in the list of actual tools? It is a mount and vehicle, distinctly different from a tool which is included. It does not say that you get one integrated tool proficiency, it says that you get a tool. And it is not listed as a tool, despite its proficiency being included within the list of such Proficiencies. It is distinctly different from being a tool, as it not listed within the page detailing tools.

Thinking it is pretty dope or creative is not exactly grounds for what the rules say, and the most tenuous grasp you have is that it was listed alongside tool Proficiencies.

I'd also allow it in my personal games, but I acknowledge it is a houserule to do so.

[OvisCaedo]

Vehicles are included in the list of actual tools, though, right at the bottom of the box/chart under Thieves's Tools. Unless some more recent revision of the book than my ancient one changed that.

though notably instead of any details it does just have a footnote saying to go check the dedicated mounts and vehicles section

[Kadesh]

If they were tools, why are they not included under the heading of 'Tools' rather than the heading of 'mounts and vehicles'?

Makes you think.

[JackPhoenix]

im picturing the dice either hanging between his legs (hehe) or around his neck like they are hanging in a rear view mirror.

Back in 3.5, we've had a warforged with a pair of oversized plush dice hanging around his neck.

He call himself Plush.

[lunaticfringe]

If they were tools, why are they not included under the heading of 'Tools' rather than the heading of 'mounts and vehicles'?

Makes you think.

They are plainly listed under tools. The * is because there are many different prices & weights for them as detailed by the Mounts & Vehicles tables/headers. By the Great Magnet the page number has been quoted and the asterisk is explained on that page. You're just wrong. If you don't like the idea of an Envoy with Vehicles as a Integrated Tool, that's fine, but it's an opinion/aesthetic.

All a Tool is in 5e is a means of broadly applying a Proficiency Bonus to a range of ability checks that fall within a specific theme or activity.