Barbarian/ Monk Multiclass: subclass synergies?

[Clone]

Hey all, I'm thinking up a replacement character for a campaign I'm in and I've settled on a Strength based Barbarian/ Monk. This had me looking at potential synergies between the two classes' archetypes.

Initially I thought something like Totem Barbarian (bear)/ Long death monk for resistance against everything which is buffered by Temp HP that is updated whenever you kill something.
Another was Zealot Barbarian/ Kensei monk so I could dump WIS (within multiclass rules of course) and still have the +2 AC as if I had a shield.

What are some interesting combos within the classes and subclasses which I can't see? Are there many to speak for? Any advice from those who've run a similar class combo? Any and all helps!

EDIT: I'll be rolling for stats, so MADness won't be as much of an issue I imagine, and and unfortunately won't have access to the tortle race.

[Misterwhisper]

Hey all, I'm thinking up a replacement character for a campaign I'm in and I've settled on a Strength based Barbarian/ Monk. This had me looking at potential synergies between the two classes' archetypes.

Initially I thought something like Totem Barbarian (bear)/ Long death monk for resistance against everything which is buffered by Temp HP that is updated whenever you kill something.
Another was Zealot Barbarian/ Kensei monk so I could dump WIS (within multiclass rules of course) and still have the +2 AC as if I had a shield.

What are some interesting combos within the classes and subclasses which I can't see? Are there many to speak for? Any advice from those who've run a similar class combo? Any and all helps!

Step 1:

Pick your split on classes.

Mainly which is main and which is the dip.

Personally I would dip the barbarian, monks need their ki too much to only have a few.

Step 2:

Stats

you really have to consider which stats will be your main focus and which will get dumped.

Wisdom is for monk saves on stunning strike so if you are mainly monk it could come up, if you are mainly barbarian it won’t matter.

Dump cha, int of 10 is fine. Dex will still be needed at least some.

I know I have said this a lot lately, but warforged solve a lot of things.

Their light armor required armor is considered unarmored so you can get 11 + dex + proficiency. Which is the equivalent of having a 16 in either con or wis.

Step 3:

Pick your weapon carefully, if you want to flury, which is great, you have to have a monk weapon or go Kensei, which is not that great.

I prefer a spear personally, just for all the options.

You can’t use a shield so using it two handed is great but you can also throw it, or use it one handed if you want to grapple, which is also great for you.


Your main issue will be stat spread.
If you roll stats it could be amazing, if you point buy there is no way you can get both a good ac and good damage and get rage damage.

[CTurbo]

I've long considered a Barb/Monk build and playing it as a Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde type of character.

There are some synergies and also some overlaps.

For starters, their unarmored defense does not stack. You have to choose one and go with it. Obviously their extra attack at level 5 does not stack.

The good news is all the rest of their features work well together with each other's unarmored defense. I would not use armor or shield because if you're forfeiting the Monk's Martial Arts feature, there is little reason to consider multiclassing in the first place.

The bad news is it's a MAD build and with point buy, You'll want to start off with 16 Str, 14 Dex, 14 Con, and 14 Wis or with a Mountain Dwarf, you could start 16 Str, 14 Dex, 16 Con, and 13 Wis and take Res(Wis) at level 4. Either way, I would largely skip feats and concentrate on bumping Str and Con every chance I got. I'd start Barb, use it's unarmored defense, and then either take 4 more Barb levels before switching to Monk, or take 5 straight Monk levels before switching back to Barb because you want that extra attack pretty quick. Ultimately I'd want more Monk levels than Barb but how much depends on what you want. I do like Long Death for sure but Open Hand would work. Zealot would be fun. I could see this being a very strong character and is definitely on my to do list although I'll probably wait until I roll some better than normal stats.

[bid]

For starters, their unarmored defense does not stack. You have to choose one and go with it. Obviously their extra attack at level 5 does not stack.
It's worse than "not stack". If you start as barbarian, the monk unarmored defense does not exist for you.

And you still suffer from the main issue of barbarian unarmored defense. Bumping Str means your naked AC stays low. Which is why the warforged looks nice.

[RedMage125]

Just a suggestion, but wouldn't going tortle allow him to dump DEX (or leave at 10) and leave STR, CON, and WIS as his only really important stats?

[Misterwhisper]

Just a suggestion, but wouldn't going tortle allow him to dump DEX (or leave at 10) and leave STR, CON, and WIS as his only really important stats?

It would get you to a 17 flat and easy, and they ha e good stats for a strength monk.

It would work amazingly up til about level 6 or so because it does not add a stat at all, magic armor will not work so the only way you will ever get more is from magic items.

It also leaves you many more stat points to your other stats, I just don’t know if I could live with an ac of 17 for most of the game.

If the game capped at 10 I would play it but if it went to like 18 or 20, no.

Warforged armor scales with proficiency, if it wasn’t for that they would just be ok, but that is just too good to pass up for many builds.

I can’t wait to play a warforged Druid and give the other Druids the finger in my fancy free built in medium armor.

[Clone]

I've updated the initial post that I'll be rolling for stats and that the Tortle race isn't available.

In regards to the class level split and campaign level:

I was assuming a majority Monk with 3ish levels of Barbarian, 4 if I need more ASIs or feats.

The overall campaign level is unknown as its homebrew and has a heavy emphasis on the Social and Exploration pillars. I'm not specifically looking for max DPS but the archetypes' synergies or feat/ strategies to employ. Maybe one or two 4 Element Monk abilities works well with a specific totem, or the Open Palm flurries combos well with the Mobile feat etc

[effenhoog]

I'm actually working on one of these characters myself, but the situation is a lot different. We are starting at level 10 and get a free magic item of a rarity lower than legendary, which I am choosing as the belt of fire giant's strength for a free 25 STR, which has really opened up this class combination. I'm starting 8 monk 2 barb and choosing the drunken master monk subclass, and probably the bear totem at barb 3 just to make it all work smoothly. Variant human with the prodigy feat for athletics expertise so I can grapple people, shove them on the ground, and smash their face in with my fist.

generally speaking, though, it really doesn't work. Tortle can help with the AC issues and is probably the best race for it but ultimately you lose out on a lot of features if you don't have both solid STR and DEX, plus CON, and probably WIS (at least for the multiclass). You'll need to roll really well to make it work.

My old idea I had settled on was Variant human with 15/13/16/8/13/8. Start barbarian and take resilient:DEX to hit 14 dex, then take +1 STR/WIS at first ASI to even out your stats. With this setup I'd go more barb than monk, probably still using drunken master subclass as it minimizes the need for WIS (shadow is the other best option for low WIS monks). I wasn't happy with it, but there just aren't enough points in point buy or standard array to make it work properly. Going heavier into barb gives you the HP and rages you need to make up for the lower AC

if you can roll bare minimum these stats or similar you can just barely make it work, especially if your DM throws you a bone somewhere with a belt of giant's strength, gauntlets of ogre power, amulet of health, bracers of defense, etc. Definitely talk to them and explain how hard it is to make Strength Punching Man work in 5e

[Misterwhisper]

When you get your stats rolled post them and we can go from there because the idea is amazing but has huge stat requirements to make it work.

[Mr.Spastic]

Just chiming in because I've made a build before.

1. Solving the AC issue. Barbarians have an armor proficiency. Getting half plate and using a shield is 17 or go tortle for a nineteen.

2. I peronally like open hand monks for this. The character I built was basically All Might and sending people flying with your fists is always fun.

3. Almost any barbarian path works, except berserker. You bonus action is already used. My personal favorite is Path of the Ancestrial Guardians because it basically forces them to fight you which is amazing because your a beast in combat.

4. Level split suggestions are barb 6/monk 14 so you get the Monk capstone. Open hand gets the save or die. Omai wa mo shindeu and all that stuff. Or you could switch it to get the Barbarian capstone. Getting turn only flight from totem Barbarian with you at least 50ft movement is really great.

[Misterwhisper]

I'm actually working on one of these characters myself, but the situation is a lot different. We are starting at level 10 and get a free magic item of a rarity lower than legendary, which I am choosing as the belt of fire giant's strength for a free 25 STR, which has really opened up this class combination. I'm starting 8 monk 2 barb and choosing the drunken master monk subclass, and probably the bear totem at barb 3 just to make it all work smoothly. Variant human with the prodigy feat for athletics expertise so I can grapple people, shove them on the ground, and smash their face in with my fist.

generally speaking, though, it really doesn't work. Tortle can help with the AC issues and is probably the best race for it but ultimately you lose out on a lot of features if you don't have both solid STR and DEX, plus CON, and probably WIS (at least for the multiclass). You'll need to roll really well to make it work.

My old idea I had settled on was Variant human with 15/13/16/8/13/8. Start barbarian and take resilient:DEX to hit 14 dex, then take +1 STR/WIS at first ASI to even out your stats. With this setup I'd go more barb than monk, probably still using drunken master subclass as it minimizes the need for WIS (shadow is the other best option for low WIS monks). I wasn't happy with it, but there just aren't enough points in point buy or standard array to make it work properly. Going heavier into barb gives you the HP and rages you need to make up for the lower AC

if you can roll bare minimum these stats or similar you can just barely make it work, especially if your DM throws you a bone somewhere with a belt of giant's strength, gauntlets of ogre power, amulet of health, bracers of defense, etc. Definitely talk to them and explain how hard it is to make Strength Punching Man work in 5e

With that set up I would so take a Dwarven Thrower instead.
It is +3 so with a 20 str which you should have at level 10 you actually have more of a bonus than the belt.
It can be thrown at range, does an extra 1s8 per hit when thrown, and the key to it all, it comes back immediately so you can just throw it again for every attack.

Fighter: whatever archetype
Mountain dwarf
Wear plate, low dex max str good con and wis low int and cha.
Carry a shield and use the hammer one handed take the dueling style.

In one more level:

To hit of 12
3 attacks for 2d8 + 10 each at 20 ft range.
Action sure for more if needed.

[Clone]

Just chiming in because I've made a build before.

1. Solving the AC issue. Barbarians have an armor proficiency. Getting half plate and using a shield is 17 or go tortle for a nineteen.

2. I peronally like open hand monks for this. The character I built was basically All Might and sending people flying with your fists is always fun.

3. Almost any barbarian path works, except berserker. You bonus action is already used. My personal favorite is Path of the Ancestrial Guardians because it basically forces them to fight you which is amazing because your a beast in combat.

4. Level split suggestions are barb 6/monk 14 so you get the Monk capstone. Open hand gets the save or die. Omai wa mo shindeu and all that stuff. Or you could switch it to get the Barbarian capstone. Getting turn only flight from totem Barbarian with you at least 50ft movement is really great.

What was the level split for that? An All Might style character isn't quite what I'm aiming for but its certainly not far off.
Wouldn't wearing armour disable the Monk abilities?
For the sake of argument sake, I'm aiming for a level 10 build and will assume I won't make it to level 20.

[Mr.Spastic]

What was the level split for that? An All Might style character isn't quite what I'm aiming for but its certainly not far off.
Wouldn't wearing armour disable the Monk abilities?
For the sake of argument sake, I'm aiming for a level 10 build and will assume I won't make it to level 20.

I forgot about the armor thing. My DM had given me a pass on it. Even without it, your rage allows you to get hit without worrying too much. At level 10 I had Monk 6/Barbarian 4. This gave me the monks healing ability as well.

[Man_Over_Game]

I'm very interested in Monk/Barbarian synergies, but there's a decent number of things you need to watch out for that I think is being missed so far in this thread.

Barbarians require 13 Strength to multiclass
Monks require 13 Dexterity and 13 Wisdom to multiclass.

Assuming you want a decent Constitution, you're talking about 4 stats that are all at LEAST 13, which is less than ideal.

Assuming that's not a problem, the next thing you need to look at is which options are valid. Since Barbarian really only works off of Strength, we're likely trying to dump Wisdom and Dexterity.

Monk:

Open Hand: Uses Wisdom and attacks, less than ideal
Kensei: Uses ranged attacks. Not the worst, but less than ideal
Sun Soul: Strictly uses Dexterity and Wisdom, not good
Long Death: Uses Wisdom and attacks, less than ideal
Four Elements: Uses Wisdom, less than ideal
Drunken Master: Doesn't use Wisdom, very ideal
Shadow: Uses some Wisdom, ideal


So the most synergistic options from Monk are likely going to be Shadow or Drunken Master, as other options are either using Ranged attacks or Wisdom, neither of which are going to be very effective for a Barbarian build.

Barbarian:

Ancestral Guardian: On hit uses, works well with mobility. Very ideal
Battlerager: Limits mobility and redundant bonus action attack, not good
Berserker: Redundant bonus action attack, not good
Storm Herald: Can utilize mobility effectively but uses bonus action regularly, less than ideal
Totem Warrior: Passive options that work with mobility, very ideal
Zealot: Passive bonuses to damage, very ideal


This limits our best options to be the Ancestral Guardian (for hit-and-run tanking), Totem Warrior (Mobility + tankiness), and Zealot (Hit hard, can't stop me).

After that, it comes down to what levels you're interested in. More Monk means more Ki point abilities, which translate to more mobility and damage, but more Barbarian means more overall tankiness.
In either scenario, it's probably not good to invest more than 4 points into our secondary class, to avoid getting a useless Extra Attack feature. In most circumstances, I'd say that 1 Barbarian, going Monk is enough to solidify the playstyle, and later grabbing 4 Barbarian when you feel like it, but it's not necessary. Going more into Barbarian means you're likely only going to get the bonus action attack features from the Monk and not much else, so it's best to focus on a build with on-hit abilities (like Ancestral or Zealot).

[Vogie]

One option, which requires DM fiat, is if you ask to have select your shield as a kensai weapon. Then, you use the Kensai's Agile Parry feature to switch it between a Weapon or shield with the AC bonus.


Give said shield the Thrown property and BAM you're Captain America.