chokfull
2018-12-05, 11:17 PM
Discussion from here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?561952-Simple-RAW-for-5e-4-Smackdown-v-RAW/page14 (Q155)
Given conflicting opinions, which may be a bit emotional (and also, i have access to a computer now so it's not a pain to write) I decided to really look at this myself.
Everything relevant that I know.
Whether you’re striking with a melee weapon, firing a weapon at range, or Making an Attack roll as part of a spell, an Attack has a simple structure.
Choose a target. Pick a target within your attack’s range: a creature, an object, or a location.
Determine modifiers. The GM determines whether the target has cover and whether you have advantage or disadvantage against the target. In addition, Spells, Special Abilities, and other effects can apply penalties or bonuses to your Attack roll.
Resolve the Attack. You make the Attack roll. On a hit, you roll damage, unless the particular Attack has rules that specify otherwise. Some attacks cause Special effects in addition to or instead of damage.
Protection
When a creature you can see attacks a target other than you that is within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to impose disadvantage on the Attack roll. You must be wielding a Shield.
Mounted Combatant
You are a dangerous foe to face while mounted. While you are mounted and aren't incapacitated, you gain the following benefits:
You have advantage on melee attack rolls against any unmounted creature that is smaller than your mount.
You can force an attack targeted at your mount to target you instead.
If your mount is subjected to an effect that allows it to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, it instead takes no damage if it succeeds on the saving throw, and only half damage if it fails.
I thought this was an interesting discussion, and I love rule technicalities. RAI it seems like it probably shouldn't work, but the RAW depends on some specific wording.
It seems to me that the disadvantage must be applied during "Determine modifiers". The question, then, is when the target is chosen. Clearly, that should happen during "Choose a target", except that that stage is determined by the attacker. There is no time constraint such as "when an opponent attacks" on the MC feat. In fact, it says "targeted" in the past tense, implying that this takes place after "Choose a target".
Alternatively, is "targeted" specifically the trigger for the feat? In this case, it should take effect immediately. There seems to be a strong case here with RAI, but I'm not so sure with RAW. Then again, the MC ability clearly cannot take place at any point after the targeting (e.g. after damage has been dealt). But on the other hand, the MC feat is very deliberately not limited by the action sequence - it takes no reaction or bonus action, and it can even be used when surprised.
Obviously it's up to DM discretion at the end. Any thoughts, though?
Given conflicting opinions, which may be a bit emotional (and also, i have access to a computer now so it's not a pain to write) I decided to really look at this myself.
Everything relevant that I know.
Whether you’re striking with a melee weapon, firing a weapon at range, or Making an Attack roll as part of a spell, an Attack has a simple structure.
Choose a target. Pick a target within your attack’s range: a creature, an object, or a location.
Determine modifiers. The GM determines whether the target has cover and whether you have advantage or disadvantage against the target. In addition, Spells, Special Abilities, and other effects can apply penalties or bonuses to your Attack roll.
Resolve the Attack. You make the Attack roll. On a hit, you roll damage, unless the particular Attack has rules that specify otherwise. Some attacks cause Special effects in addition to or instead of damage.
Protection
When a creature you can see attacks a target other than you that is within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to impose disadvantage on the Attack roll. You must be wielding a Shield.
Mounted Combatant
You are a dangerous foe to face while mounted. While you are mounted and aren't incapacitated, you gain the following benefits:
You have advantage on melee attack rolls against any unmounted creature that is smaller than your mount.
You can force an attack targeted at your mount to target you instead.
If your mount is subjected to an effect that allows it to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, it instead takes no damage if it succeeds on the saving throw, and only half damage if it fails.
I thought this was an interesting discussion, and I love rule technicalities. RAI it seems like it probably shouldn't work, but the RAW depends on some specific wording.
It seems to me that the disadvantage must be applied during "Determine modifiers". The question, then, is when the target is chosen. Clearly, that should happen during "Choose a target", except that that stage is determined by the attacker. There is no time constraint such as "when an opponent attacks" on the MC feat. In fact, it says "targeted" in the past tense, implying that this takes place after "Choose a target".
Alternatively, is "targeted" specifically the trigger for the feat? In this case, it should take effect immediately. There seems to be a strong case here with RAI, but I'm not so sure with RAW. Then again, the MC ability clearly cannot take place at any point after the targeting (e.g. after damage has been dealt). But on the other hand, the MC feat is very deliberately not limited by the action sequence - it takes no reaction or bonus action, and it can even be used when surprised.
Obviously it's up to DM discretion at the end. Any thoughts, though?