Want to make a mechanic for a Campaign.

[Marywn]

I have not DMed in a some time, but what I want to add is a current thing for casters and other classes.

The world I'm going to use is brimming with magic, allowing for casters to draw from the world and use its magic, for a cost.
Basically, the spell caster get 2 slots of their highest spellslot, and 1 slot above their highest, barring 9th level(These are extra spellslots, and you can choose weither or not to use the extra or not.) per day, or session depending on wiether or not If it seems fair.
If they use one of the slots is used current effect occur, 2 slots used doubles the effect, all 3 triples it.

I was thinking that would favor casters so I'm also trying to think of current bonuses that classes like rogue or fighter get so Its balanced

[DragonBaneDM]

I think that the extra spell slots above what they know should either get ditched, or delayed. If I’m understanding what you’re trying to do, when the party Wizard gains level 2 spell slots, they also gain one level 3 spell slot.

This happens at level 3. So the Wizard is now throwing around Fireball while the Barbarian is waiting 2 more levels, so several more sessions, to advance to the point that they gain a second attack.

One alternative you could maybe consider is the Mizzium Apparatus from GGR. It doesn’t give higher level spell slots, instead it lets casters use their slots for Spells they do not know. It comes with a malfunction risk of casting a random blasty spell.

So instead of extra slots, maybe something like that, or 2-3 extra known spells. Or a way to recharge slots at leylines of arcane power scattered around your world, but they could also recharge stuff like rages or superiority dice.

[Madfellow]

I feel like this would upset the balance of the game too severely. If you want to play a high magic game, I would suggest that you just start the game at a higher level, where casters get access to more powerful spells and non-casters are strong enough to keep up with them. You could also hand out strong magic items to each PC in the party to make them feel more in tune with the magic of the world.

Good luck.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

In order to avoid this

I think that the extra spell slots above what they know should either get ditched, or delayed. If I’m understanding what you’re trying to do, when the party Wizard gains level 2 spell slots, they also gain one level 3 spell slot.

This happens at level 3. So the Wizard is now throwing around Fireball while the Barbarian is waiting 2 more levels, so several more sessions, to advance to the point that they gain a second attack.


I suggest you limite the higher level slot to only lower level spells(like casting burning hand from a 3lv slot insted of a 3lv spell).

You can also roll that those slot can only use to cast a spell that is normally 1 or more levels under it.


I will limit the game to casters only and let players to start at level 3 in order to take casting subclasses for non casting class.

[Marywn]

One alternative you could maybe consider is the Mizzium Apparatus from GGR. It doesn’t give higher level spell slots, instead it lets casters use their slots for Spells they do not know. It comes with a malfunction risk of casting a random blasty spell.

So instead of extra slots, maybe something like that, or 2-3 extra known spells. Or a way to recharge slots at leylines of arcane power scattered around your world, but they could also recharge stuff like rages or superiority dice.

I'm trying to verify mechanics and things that would balanced and fair for everyone.

I think that your suggestion is also good, I kinda want ideas and advice for current things so when I try this, I don't have to have so much headache from it.
At level 3 would be what I would prefer.
And I'd prefer that I don't give out magic items willy nilly(Not saying your suggesting that.). I plan for them to have to work toward that item, and have to seek out the parts and people to make it happen.
Niether am I not going to not give out items though.

[Unoriginal]

I'm trying to verify mechanics and things that would balanced and fair for everyone.


You could give Boons to non-casters, to compensate. Say that the world fills them with magic, with manifest as X or Y Boon.

[Bloodcloud]

That would make casters a LOT stronger. Martials need a significant boost... maybe something like allow them to self enchant their weapons?

[Marywn]

You could give Boons to non-casters, to compensate. Say that the world fills them with magic, with manifest as X or Y Boon.
I personally like idea of boons, and It would compensate.

I just need to dictate how often they can use it or if its passive, also what types of boons their are.

I don't want to let melee self enchant their weapons unless the player can do that already, as I can see where that can go horribly wrong for me as a dm.

[Pelle]

This is all completely unnecessary, 5e is brimming with magic already. Just do a recalibration of your expectations of what the levels mean for the current game, and you'll be fine. Instead of starting out as level 1 characters, spellcasters start as level 2 to represent the higher magic level. And to not make it unfair for the martials, they also get to start with a level 2 character, but that still represents the 'old' level 2 martial level...

Now, where the magic boon idea has merit is when the relative difference matters. I.e. if in one part of your world, spellcasters get these benefits, but not if they travel somewhere else. If they get the benefit everywhere, it's just a wash.

[Nhorianscum]

I have not DMed in a some time, but what I want to add is a current thing for casters and other classes.

The world I'm going to use is brimming with magic, allowing for casters to draw from the world and use its magic, for a cost.
Basically, the spell caster get 2 slots of their highest spellslot, and 1 slot above their highest, barring 9th level(These are extra spellslots, and you can choose weither or not to use the extra or not.) per day, or session depending on wiether or not If it seems fair.
If they use one of the slots is used current effect occur, 2 slots used doubles the effect, all 3 triples it.

I was thinking that would favor casters so I'm also trying to think of current bonuses that classes like rogue or fighter get so Its balanced

Introducing always on wild magic is a simpler way to showcase high background magic (and with doubled wild rolling it's a great excuse to play WM sorc).

[Marywn]

This is all completely unnecessary, 5e is brimming with magic already. Just do a recalibration of your expectations of what the levels mean for the current game, and you'll be fine. Instead of starting out as level 1 characters, spellcasters start as level 2 to represent the higher magic level. And to not make it unfair for the martials, they also get to start with a level 2 character, but that still represents the 'old' level 2 martial level...

Now, where the magic boon idea has merit is when the relative difference matters. I.e. if in one part of your world, spellcasters get these benefits, but not if they travel somewhere else. If they get the benefit everywhere, it's just a wash.
True, I could just make it simple.
Just remember, I want to make something here and I'm gathering ideas. I can see all the valid points your bringing up, and they are things I will take into account.

What I want most is for things to be balanced and go right for this campaign.
It will be my first real campaign that will be regular so I want to flush things out before I get started

[JackPhoenix]

I think that the extra spell slots above what they know should either get ditched, or delayed. If I’m understanding what you’re trying to do, when the party Wizard gains level 2 spell slots, they also gain one level 3 spell slot.

This happens at level 3. So the Wizard is now throwing around Fireball while the Barbarian is waiting 2 more levels, so several more sessions, to advance to the point that they gain a second attack.

Slot =/= spell known. As written, while they'll get 3rd level slot, the wizard won't know 3rd level spell, so he can only use it to upcast level 1 and 2 spells he already knows.

It's still pretty strong, but not extremely overpowered.

However, I'm not sure what's "If they use one of the slots is used current effect occur, 2 slots used doubles the effect, all 3 triples it." supposed to mean, and I don't see any cost for the extra slots gained.

[Arcangel4774]

On a good way to add a boon for martials look at the aasimir. The extra damage to attacks for a period of time. Or aura of damage thats hurts self and others both seem like decent martial boons. Of course have these be different elements or maybe even different for different primary classes could add some fun twists.

[Laserlight]

allowing for casters to draw from the world and use its magic, for a cost.

I'm not seeing any cost, they just get a few free slots.

Off the top of my head and with insufficient caffeinet--perhaps make a way to balance it is to have Martial abilities that ordinarily refresh on a long rest, now refresh on a short rest. Whether that actually balances things depends on whether your party takes SRs or not.

[JackPhoenix]

Off the top of my head and with insufficient caffeinet--perhaps make a way to balance it is to have Martial abilities that ordinarily refresh on a long rest, now refresh on a short rest. Whether that actually balances things depends on whether your party takes SRs or not.

Tht doesn't solve much, unless you're barbarian. Fighter's abilities already do refresh on SR (except Indomitable at level 9, which is pretty far), rogues don't have anything that need refreshing unless they take AT (and thus have spellcasting anyway), and monks ALSO regain ki on SR.

[Vogie]

Another idea is that You could also make all characters have 2 levels in sorcerer, in addition to their existing class levels. So a 1st level fighter is actually Fighter 1/ Sorc 1, a second level Rogue is a Rogue 2/ Sorc 2, and so on.

It'll feel like everyone getting a slightly better version of Magic Initiate, and then your characters that have casting abilities can break up a spell slot, plus their 2 Font of Magic points, to create a larger spell slot, up to level 5 (although you can bypass that).

For those players who want to play sorcerers specifically, they can't opt to gain additional levels in Sorcerer until level 3. So they'd be a Bard, Barbarian, or whatever, for 2 levels, then put remaining levels into sorcerer if they have a charisma of 13 or higher.

[RedMage125]

Out of curiosity, what is the "cost"? Is it a cost to the caster, like Overchanneling? Is it a cost to the world, like Defiling magic from Dark Sun?

[Marywn]

Out of curiosity, what is the "cost"? Is it a cost to the caster, like Overchanneling? Is it a cost to the world, like Defiling magic from Dark Sun?
I would think its a bit of bot, because there is an abuncane of magic, there will be a reserve that will run out and need to replenish.
I would consider the energy you use from the world to be more potent and therefore, put more strain one the casters body and/or mind.
can you explain Defiling magic to me too? I'd like to hear what it does.

[carrdrivesyou]

This is basically a form of enhanced metamagic that ALL casters receive. This change would upset the game balance DRASTICALLY. I would suggest a different approach.

I once DM'd a game where I let my characters use the Inspiration they receive to manipulate magic in odd ways. Nothing as potent as what you are considering, but definitely out of the norm. They could do some of the following as examples: maximize half of one spell's damage dice, raise their spell DC's by 2 for one spell, produce a particular magical effect by giving up one spell slot of equivalent level (i.e. create a spell on the go), and a few others. This would meet your idea of a magical world without upsetting game balance too much.

[Marywn]

This is basically a form of enhanced metamagic that ALL casters receive. This change would upset the game balance DRASTICALLY. I would suggest a different approach.

I once DM'd a game where I let my characters use the Inspiration they receive to manipulate magic in odd ways. Nothing as potent as what you are considering, but definitely out of the norm. They could do some of the following as examples: maximize half of one spell's damage dice, raise their spell DC's by 2 for one spell, produce a particular magical effect by giving up one spell slot of equivalent level (i.e. create a spell on the go), and a few others. This would meet your idea of a magical world without upsetting game balance too much.
Yea, I did think that giving 3 extra spell slots was pretty powerful, and I went here to find either better ways to improve it, or different ways that work just as well.

I like when things are balanced, not Armageddon

[RedMage125]

I would think its a bit of bot, because there is an abuncane of magic, there will be a reserve that will run out and need to replenish.
I would consider the energy you use from the world to be more potent and therefore, put more strain one the casters body and/or mind.
can you explain Defiling magic to me too? I'd like to hear what it does.

In the world of Athas (Dark Sun) arcane magic takes life energy from the surrounding environment. Arcane casters can choose to be "Preservers" or "Defilers". Preservers only take a small, almost unnoticeable amount from their surroundings, which can be replenished naturally. Defiling, however, is much more potent, and usually killed all plant life in the vicinity, dried up water, etc. These effects are also immediately noticeable.

Defiling has been done differently as far as mechanics in 2e, 3e (in Dragon and Dungeon magazine), 4e (was basically a free re-roll if you missed with an Arcane Power that did damage to everyone nearby), and 5e (homebrew at athas.org).

But one thing to take away is that because of defiling, arcane magic is not trusted. Like, AT ALL. If the common folk find out you're an arcane caster, no amount of insisting you are a Preserver will stop the lynch mob, unless one is a Templar. That is because the Sorcerer-Kings*, near-immortal wizard/psions of great power, defiled most of the planet hundreds of years prior. Athas used to be a green, lush planet orbiting a blue star. Defiling magic has even taken energy from the sun to the point that it went though yellow, and is now a Red Giant. Psionics are SUPER common in that setting, and are trusted much more than arcane magic.

The simple version is: you take life from the very world around you to power up your magic. But if you do this, you irrevocably destroy that area. Nothing will ever grow naturally there again.

*That's REAL Sorcerer-Kings. Not to be confused with the one that crops up on these forums from time to time. That one is a semi-literate troll with the none of a real troll's redeeming features (infinite troll sausage, anyone?), and delusions of grandeur.

[Marywn]

In the world of Athas (Dark Sun) arcane magic takes life energy from the surrounding environment. Arcane casters can choose to be "Preservers" or "Defilers". Preservers only take a small, almost unnoticeable amount from their surroundings, which can be replenished naturally. Defiling, however, is much more potent, and usually killed all plant life in the vicinity, dried up water, etc. These effects are also immediately noticeable.

Defiling has been done differently as far as mechanics in 2e, 3e (in Dragon and Dungeon magazine), 4e (was basically a free re-roll if you missed with an Arcane Power that did damage to everyone nearby), and 5e (homebrew at athas.org).

But one thing to take away is that because of defiling, arcane magic is not trusted. Like, AT ALL. If the common folk find out you're an arcane caster, no amount of insisting you are a Preserver will stop the lynch mob, unless one is a Templar. That is because the Sorcerer-Kings*, near-immortal wizard/psions of great power, defiled most of the planet hundreds of years prior. Athas used to be a green, lush planet orbiting a blue star. Defiling magic has even taken energy from the sun to the point that it went though yellow, and is now a Red Giant. Psionics are SUPER common in that setting, and are trusted much more than arcane magic.

The simple version is: you take life from the very world around you to power up your magic. But if you do this, you irrevocably destroy that area. Nothing will ever grow naturally there again.

*That's REAL Sorcerer-Kings. Not to be confused with the one that crops up on these forums from time to time. That one is a semi-literate troll with the none of a real troll's redeeming features (infinite troll sausage, anyone?), and delusions of grandeur.
That's really cool! I did think of reprecussions to the land around you if you used the magic from it, though I would say that if you tried to defile the area, you will suffer greatly. I'd like the implement that, though not to the severity of EVERYTHING DYING.

I plan for the casters to be not as common, you aren't totally Prosecuted for being one, but depending on the village or area you are, the will be either more or less acceptance.

I like to have a slightly happier tone for this campaign, but include that the world is definitly not sunshine and rainbows.

[JeenLeen]

I like the idea of tagging on two levels of Sorcerer like mentioned above, but I guess that does benefit casters more than martial since they'd be better at the casting. Perhaps you could augment it by letting the player choose the casting stat for these side-levels? So a Fighter type could use Strength, for example, to be competent at his innate spellcasting.

Alternatively: all powers are 'magic' to one degree or another, so...
How about a 1/day (or 1/week) the PC gets a "super rest". With just a few minutes of downtown (less than a short rest--maybe a literal minute), they recharge all abilities and heal as if from a long rest, by drawing the ambient magical energy into themselves.

On the other hand, I feel this benefits 'long rest'-rechargers more than 'short rest'-classes, so maybe it's not great. (This should not be allowed in the middle of combat, lest you have folk get a free 'full heal' most major battles and things just feel slow.)

---
For penalties: it's hard to think of penalties that matter that aren't either 1) easy to mitigate or ignore by certain choices, or 2) so annoying it makes what you get not worth it. I'd recommend not really putting a penalty to it, or just the penalty is that it disturbs the local 'magical weave' and thus is detectable by an Alertness roll. (Assume everyone has some innate ability to sense ambient magic. It usually means nothing except you can sense being in something like an Antimagic Aura and disturbances like this. Normal spellcasting isn't disruptive enough to be sensed via this.)

[JackPhoenix]

*That's REAL Sorcerer-Kings. Not to be confused with the one that crops up on these forums from time to time. That one is a semi-literate troll with the none of a real troll's redeeming features (infinite troll sausage, anyone?), and delusions of grandeur.

They are also actually wizards.

[RedMage125]

They are also actually wizards.

If you want to get really technical, they are multiclass wizard/psions, blending psionics and magic together. I believe the 3.5e Dungeon magazine example (the closest thing we had to an official 3e dark sun) had it as an Epic Prestige Class that required the ability to cast 8th level arcane spells and manifest 8th level psionic powers. Might have been 9th for both, but I'm pretty sure it was 8th.

[Man_Over_Game]

Adding direct power the way you're suggesting would definitely unbalance things pretty dramatically. There's a reason that some classes gain access to magical attacks, to overcome certain obstacles and enemies easier.

An easy fix that doesn't risk unbalancing a lot of the system without much work is just to switch up the short/long rest formula. Martial classes have few resources, and most of those recharge on a short rest. Most casters recharge on a long rest.

By having fewer fights per day, you're naturally putting things in favor of the caster. This doesn't completely overshadow the martial classes, as there will be circumstances where their endurance may be preferable (like clearing out a dungeon, or escaping a situation with no chance for a rest).

Casters are already inherently used to a world filled with magic, which is why they can cast in the first place. They're already "different", so trying to make them stand out even more than they already do may cause some issues with balance between your players.

[Bloodcloud]

Or maybe just grant the magic initiate feat to everyone?

[Grey Watcher]

I'll put my two copper in with those saying that a simple solution that can be applied to any character is better than trying to add on systems. Epic Boons of the DMG (and their little siblings, Blessings and Charms) sound like the best way to model "magic is so ubiquitous, even the freaking chimney sweep has a spell or two." Maybe as they level up or hit story triggers, they can get more. That keeps it much simpler than having to develop new systems on top of existing systems and making it more complicated to figure just how many spells per day you actually have.

[Marywn]

I'll put my two copper in with those saying that a simple solution that can be applied to any character is better than trying to add on systems. Epic Boons of the DMG (and their little siblings, Blessings and Charms) sound like the best way to model "magic is so ubiquitous, even the freaking chimney sweep has a spell or two." Maybe as they level up or hit story triggers, they can get more. That keeps it much simpler than having to develop new systems on top of existing systems and making it more complicated to figure just how many spells per day you actually have.
True, the more I look at example people have posted, and thinking more on it this makes sense.
The boons might be the best way to go, so no one has to deal with more complicated systems. What would you say are soom good boons that I could start off with?

[Joe the Rat]

On costs: Spellburn it. you can snag an extra 2 slots in a day by paying for it in hit dice, or take damage and reduce your hp max for the day per boost.
The area where you charged creates a low magic zone (5' radius per slot level?). It's disturbing, feels kind of flat, and may have inhibiting effects on spells in the area.


Maximum fill level is 5 - so up to two extra 5th, and a 6th level slot. The Higher Level Magics are limited to 1-2 a day for a reason.


Boons are good - you effectively give everyone a minor magical ability or a cantrip... save that full casters have to turn theirs into learning spellcasting. So yes, multiclassing into sorcerer means your rogue has to give up his double-jump ability.

Halvsie Casters and Eldritch Tricksters... up to you.

[Marywn]

One thing I am trying to think to balance is warlock, though I don't know if that necessary or not.

[Joe the Rat]

1-3/day extra slots, if you cap the levels for everyone will be fine. I'd let them just cast it, and have the life sucked out of the world around them. Assuming you want to up the sinister flavor.

[Marywn]

I do want them to see that using this should only be a last restort, Though that will all depend on who the character is.
They could be the magical ecoterrorist.

[Kane0]

Give everyone a variant of the Magic Initiate feat?
At level 1 everyone gets a free cantrip, at level 2 they get one 1st level spell per LR and at level 3 one 2nd level spell per LR. make the 'cost' a slightly reduced point buy or hit die pool.

[jiriku]

True, the more I look at example people have posted, and thinking more on it this makes sense.
The boons might be the best way to go, so no one has to deal with more complicated systems. What would you say are soom good boons that I could start off with?

Any boon can fit thematically. Simply require the player to flavor the boon as being produced by magic. For example a fighter with a boon of fortitude doesn't just have extra hp -- his blood glows with an inner radiance when he's wounded and his life force is visibly sustained by an inner spiritual energy even when he takes mortal wounds that should drop a normal man.

[Marywn]

Any boon can fit thematically. Simply require the player to flavor the boon as being produced by magic. For example a fighter with a boon of fortitude doesn't just have extra hp -- his blood glows with an inner radiance when he's wounded and his life force is visibly sustained by an inner spiritual energy even when he takes mortal wounds that should drop a normal man.
So, could I have to players decide what type of boon they want, based on their character?
That would be pretty nice, and It could scale with level later on. The more I think of it the Spellburn also seems like a great way to compensate for the extra slots, If you want extra power, your going to have to make yourself more vunerable.

[Marywn]

I feel like I need to make a list of random boons.

[Wildarm]

Maybe look at implementing an overchannel type ability or ley lines.

Overchannel - Cast a spell at a higher spell slot l than normal. Gain 1 level of Exhaustion or perhaps incapacitated until your next turn.

Ley Lines - Proper orientation with the ley lines of the world you cast more potent spells. Increases the DC of your spells or lets you cast at a higher level than normal. Takes an action to properly orient yourself.

[Laird]

Other things you can do in high magic setting...that don't change the class balance, would be to utilize skill checks.

Arcana/Nature/Insight? check to see if there is any exploitable magic (bonus action) if there is, what effect.. allow casters to 'channel' it by taking damage equal to (casting mod - con mod)*spell level.

So you are near a place of power/leyline...
Wiz level 3 makes an Arcana check finds there is lightning magic allow him to cast a 2d8 or 3d8 spell attack that does lightning damage but the wizard takes 2 or 3 damage.

For martials, if they have a magic weapon allow them to sense the crackling energy as a bonus swing their weapon through it and gain a number of charges on a weapon that discharge on a successful hit, like a mini smite, that stacks with everything.

Would need tweaking but I feel it's a bit more balanced then giving casters two level 9 slots a day to cast wish/foresight/ etc. Spell progression is fine as is in class, just give them more play room in the environment! High magic environments allow for some fantastical things, think huge islands hovering over land where lighting passes from one to the other.

Wind storms that blow around in semi regularity.

Seas of liquid metal or churning sand.

Floating globules of Mana that with willpower or constitution can be shaped into something needed.

High magic doesn't have to mean you need to change the classes, just what they can do with their surroundings.

This approach also inspires PCs to be more creative which makes for a much more powerful storytelling avenue, it also doesn't take away from the vermissilitude (sp?) That can be created within a world brimming with raw power.