Wild template and skills ...

[schreier]

Dragon 358 has the wild template. As part of it, it says "A wilderness dweller loses any racial skill modifiers her ancestral race had (Including the extra skill to human gains at first level)

Darfellan have "A darfellan has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. A darfellan can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. A darfellan can use the run action while swimming, provided he swims in a straight line."

How would rule this? My gut says lose the situational +8 but leave the take 10 and run abilities. I could see leaving the +8 as situational, or losing everything since they relate to a skill. I just wanted to get a general consensus.

[DrMotives]

That's a weird template. But without checking it first, no. You leave all the swim bonuses alone because anything with a swim speed gets a +8 to swim checks, just as everything with a climb speed gets a +8 to climb checks.

[ezekielraiden]

Dragon 358 has the wild template. As part of it, it says "A wilderness dweller loses any racial skill modifiers her ancestral race had (Including the extra skill to human gains at first level)

Darfellan have "A darfellan has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. A darfellan can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. A darfellan can use the run action while swimming, provided he swims in a straight line."

How would rule this? My gut says lose the situational +8 but leave the take 10 and run abilities. I could see leaving the +8 as situational, or losing everything since they relate to a skill. I just wanted to get a general consensus.

Being able, outside their normal bounds, to take 10 or being able to use a run action...isn't a racial skill modifier. So, yeah, it sounds like your instinct is RAW: you don't get +8 to Swim (a racial bonus--aka modifier--to a skill), but you do get the other benefits.

[Ashtagon]

RAW: He loses the +8, but keeps the take 10.

RACSD: He keeps the skill bonus. The template was intended to cover skills that are gained through training as a result of living in a civilisation, not those gained as a result of their physical form.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

He does not lose that +8 to Swim, because the racial trait is a swim speed, and that +8 automatically comes from having a swim speed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#movementModes). He doesn't gain a +8 to swim checks as a racial skill modifier, he gains it for having a swim speed, and Wild only removes racial skill modifiers.

[Jeraa]

He does not lose that +8 to Swim, because the racial trait is a swim speed, and that +8 automatically comes from having a swim speed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#movementModes). He doesn't gain a +8 to swim checks as a racial skill modifier, he gains it for having a swim speed, and Wild only removes racial skill modifiers.

The +8 modifier is a modifier, to a skill, that classifies itself as a racial bonus. It very much is a racial skill modifier and would be lost. Doesn't matter what it comes from, it is still a racial skill modifier.

It shouldn't be, however. Having a swim speed isn't limited to racial traits. The bonuses shouldn't be a racial one. Unfortunately it is, however, so would be lost.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

The +8 modifier is a modifier, to a skill, that classifies itself as a racial bonus. It very much is a racial skill modifier and would be lost. Doesn't matter what it comes from, it is still a racial skill modifier.

It shouldn't be, however. Having a swim speed isn't limited to racial traits. The bonuses shouldn't be a racial one. Unfortunately it is, however, so would be lost.

It's inherent to the movement mode, not inherent to your race. If you somehow lost your swim speed, you would also lose that +8, because it doesn't come from your race, it comes from having a swim speed.

The Wild template specifically only removes skill bonuses that come from your race, that bonus is not one of those.

[Jeraa]

It's inherent to the movement mode, not inherent to your race. If you somehow lost your swim speed, you would also lose that +8, because it doesn't come from your race, it comes from having a swim speed.

The Wild template specifically only removes skill bonuses that come from your race, that bonus is not one of those.

Doesn't matter what the bonus comes from, it is very specifically listed as a racial bonus. If them template removes racial bonuses, then the +8 from having a swim speed is removed as well. Doesn't make sense, but unless someone posts the exact text of the template to clarify just what is meant, the bonus is lost. It is a racial skill modifier. Doesn't matter if it is because of the swim speed, it is very definitely categorized as a racial skill modifier (as it is a racial bonus that is applied to a skill).

[Nifft]

So the solution seems to be:

1 - DM Fiat to correct the Swim bonus to be non-racial, since it should have come from the movement speed in the first place.

2 - Apply the template and don't remove the non-racial bonus, since it now comes from the movement speed.

[schreier]

Thanks all. It seems like, even if the skill modifier is lost, it might be "regained" since it is the result of the swim speed?

[Nifft]

Thanks all. It seems like, even if the skill modifier is lost, it might be "regained" since it is the result of the swim speed?

Yes.

Or you originally had another (invisible) +8 from the swim speed which stacked with the +8 racial bonus.

IMHO that would have been an error, but eh. The game has a DM to catch such things.

[animewatcha]

Where in 358 would this template be because I just thumbed through it and didnt see it. It sounds like the wild template is in one of the earlier 300s for dragon mag.

[thorr-kan]

Where in 358 would this template be because I just thumbed through it and didnt see it. It sounds like the wild template is in one of the earlier 300s for dragon mag.
Typo?

There's Wild (AKA Wilderness-Dweller), Dragon 306. pg. 65.