How do you punish somebody for breaking class requirements?

[Mr.Spastic]

I'll start off by saying that I don't like the word "punish" in the title but I couldn't think of anything better. In a campaign that I am running one of my players, who was playing a cleric, decided that he didn't want t serve his god anymore. At this current point in time he has not started serving another god. I told him that he would be having some of his powers stripped away until he either decides to retake service or finds a new deity or forms a pact. What I want to know is how would you guys depower the player? I would also like some advice on how to do this with warlocks, paladins, druids, and rangers for if it ever pops up. Should I just leave him with armor and weapon proficiencies he got from the class? Should I penealize his level in a new option? He has already stated that he will except whatever ruling I give but I don't want to make him useless. Please Help.

Edit:For reference, the players character was a level 6 Light Cleric. The god he followed was a custom god for the setting called Lys the Lady of Light. Her whole shtick was this eternal feud with these the god of darkness. Yes, I get it is stereotypical but we were all taking it seriously. When our paladin in the party, also a servant of Lys and a really good friend of the cleric, died in battle, the cleric began to question whether he wanted to die in service of some god's whims. The war between light and dark was more of a cosmic thing and was prophesied to conclude at the end of time with both gods killing each other. Taking up a role in the faith and becoming either a paladin or a cleric was seen as a great cause and was supported by the masses. In the character's backstory he took up the faith as a matter of tradition and honor and didn't think through the whole "battle the forces of darkness for all your life" thing. Lys basically only uses her followers in a very utilitarian way so if they strayed from their purpose it makes sense that they would be almost instantly denied their power.

P.S. To the person who side "the gods work in mysterious ways." I CONTROL THOSE GODS.

Edit 2: They character has NO interest in being a cleric not even for the magic. I thought that was implied by the post but I guess I have to spell it out. He does not have any of his cleric magic anymore. I want to power down the character and have received permission to do so. Both me and the player have come to the consensus that it makes sense to do so and are willing to experiment with certain things. I just want some suggestions to figure out some ways to make this work.

[An Enemy Spy]

If he has no god then he has no source of spells, no ability to turn undead, no divine power, pure and simple. He'll have to either worship another god or be one of those secular clerics who devotes themselves to a concept.

[JMS]

My opinion might be to inflict story trouble, like his church or a servant of his diety causing trouble, but say your belief in a cause/a bureaucrat glitch/Your god not bothering to stop you lets you keep your power, for now. He still wants to get a new source, but it isn’t a Do or die.

Also, what god and domain? Might help formulate ideas.

[Aelyn]

Why would you need to strip his powers? There's no class requirements saying clerics must worship a god.

If he's disillusioned with the god but still believes in the core tenets, that's enough. I'm pretty sure you can be a cleric of a cause or tenet no problem in this edition. Maybe he's tapping into the outer planes' energy directly.

Or maybe his god knows that the cleric still has an important destiny, so continues to provide spells even without being worshipped.

The only "penalty" I would suggest is that, from an RP perspective, he probably wouldn't ask for a Divine Intervention. Until the moment is desperate enough for him to find solace in his old god, that is...

[Daghoulish]

That's a good question. I wouldn't want to depower them too much but something is in order. I would probably start by removing their Channel Divinity, I think it would be hard to channel something you don't have at the moment. Maybe make it so their holy symbol is no longer their spellcasting focus? I would see the symbol being powered by their god so forcing them to change to a component pouch or verbal/somatic spells only would hurt them a little bit. Especially a cleric, losing their shield as their focus would suck big time. Other things would be very dependent on the cleric domain. Such as war would lose War Priest, it outright states that your god gives you divine inspiration to be able to attack again. I think I would leave armor proficiency, but once they chose a new domain it either has those proficiency's and they keep them or they give them up (sacrificing their ability to use them to get accepted by the new god).

[Mr.Spastic]

Why would you need to strip his powers? There's no class requirements saying clerics must worship a god.

If he's disillusioned with the god but still believes in the core tenets, that's enough. I'm pretty sure you can be a cleric of a cause or tenet no problem in this edition. Maybe he's tapping into the outer planes' energy directly.

Or maybe his god knows that the cleric still has an important destiny, so continues to provide spells even without being worshipped.

The only "penalty" I would suggest is that, from an RP perspective, he probably wouldn't ask for a Divine Intervention. Until the moment is desperate enough for him to find solace in his old god, that is...

To be more precise he basically said "F*** YOU!" to his god and has decided he doesn't want to be involved in the machinations of divine powers. He also doesn't believe in giving service to any ideals.

[stoutstien]

I'll start off by saying that I don't like the word "punish" in the title but I couldn't think of anything better. In a campaign that I am running one of my players, who was playing a cleric, decided that he didn't want t serve his god anymore. At this current point in time he has not started serving another god. I told him that he would be having some of his powers stripped away until he either decides to retake service or finds a new deity or forms a pact. What I want to know is how would you guys depower the player? I would also like some advice on how to do this with warlocks, paladins, druids, and rangers for if it ever pops up. Should I just leave him with armor and weapon proficiencies he got from the class? Should I penealize his level in a new option? He has already stated that he will except whatever ruling I give but I don't want to make him useless. Please Help.
is there a narrative reason why you feel a need to take anything away from this player? why is he no longer following his/her original deity? was it moral conflict? player/character motivation would play a big part in this

[Mellack]

I personally wouldn't take away any powers. Gods work in mysterious ways and have plans far beyond the understanding of man and blah blah. Even though he may not be worshiping, or think he is serving the deity, he still might be part of the plan. Having him off doing powerful things serves the deity's ends, regardless of what the cleric thinks of them. That means the deity keeps funnelling some powers to the cleric as it benifits the deity to do so. I think it would be the easiest to keep the game running, and lets them run with the roleplay. I would have interactions with other worshipers change. They might be aghast at the blasphemy, not allow them in the church, etc. But I wouldn't change the powers.

[Leith]

I've always liked the idea of the reluctant cleric, a God chose them but they don't want anything to do with it. The God could just send vision after vision, angel after angel, telling the PC to get with the program. They might find themselves doing what their God wants just by coincidence, because it's really divine providence.

[Clone]

I've seen some Clerics be run in a way which you could use, being that they are a chosen of a god rather than giving worship to them.
Maybe one of the followers of the god appears in the player's dreams, like a Deva guide for Aasimar, saying that they see great things in their future etc.

Depending on how you run gods it could be done out of spite by another. Maybe the original god, angered the player, has enemies so another god swoops in and tells the player
"Hey dude I totally hate that Zeus guy too and I heard about your falling out. I'll give you my powers to help your journey if you promise to do ____ for me every now and again, but otherwise you won't have to do a thing!"
The second god doesn't even have to be evil, or hate the first god. I imagine either a Disney-style Zeus vs Hades scenario here, or just Greek/ Roman gods in general. The more human qualities gods have the more interesting they become to me, so if this hasn't been addressed in your campaign I'd urge you to at least give it some thought.


If none of those work and you want to reinforce the consequences of their actions, have all the magical abilities they gain via resources take up more resources or are less effective.
Cast Healing Word? You now don't add your WIS to the healed health. Using Channel Divinity? Get the player to roll a D20 and if its 5 or under it fails. Casting big spells? They don't get proficiency bonus to their Spell Save DC or their To Hit.
Note these would be gradual things which unravel over time, so they begin to feel the result of not following a god and allows them time to consider the next step to take. How long do they leave it until they completely go cold turkey, or they begin worship anew? Thats an interesting opportunity for character growth rather than just shocking them like tossing them into a cold bath for an instant consequence. If you take away from what I say its do it gradually so they can process whats happening, rather than regretting the whole ordeal and hoping for a retcon.


Depending on how things go, offer a class change to Paladin or straight Fighter. Talk to the player away from the table to get their point of view on why they're doing what they're doing, such as why reject the act of worship after picking a class which flavour-wise revolves around that concept. Maybe they didn't understand what the class entailed, or they didn't understand the gravity of what they did. Or maybe they fully know what they're doing and this is just a special way they're exploring their character, who knows! Regardless it would only benefit you to know what the player's intentions are before moving forward.


Finally, in regards to the other classes, its a bit weird.
Druids and Rangers get their power from Nature itself, not for worship really. Maybe a Druid of decay burns down an old forest so a new one can spring from its ashes and fresh nutritious soil, yet another Druid would find such an act sacrilege. It ultimately depends on how you interpret those types of magic, but I wouldn't put the same level of restrictions on them that you'd put on a Cleric or Paladin.
Paladins are all about their Oath, so anything they get from their subclass I'd take away if the Oath is properly broken. Make sure they know what it means to break the oath though, and how many missteps they can get before they actually need to seek redemption.
Warlocks usually are seen as given MORE power as they level, rather than being constantly supplied. They are also in a pact, so breaking that link would both be much harder and much more dangerous. Otherwise I'd just tell them they cannot take more levels in Warlock unless they legitimately had the intent to make a new pact.


Hope this helped in some way!

[Silkensword]

I believe this is something you should talk to your player about. Do they want a re-work? If not, maybe describe the deity being disappointed in losing them as a follower; maybe they are persecuted by acolytes?

[ImproperJustice]

It is not uncommon for members of the religious proffered in real life to experience a crisis of faith.
Some fall away forever, and many others work out their problems and come back stronger than ever, even more adjust their point of view in some fashion and sally forth in a new direction.

There are some real opportunities for role play here.
A conversation with the player is definitely in order about how he would like his character to change.
Maybe a domain change is incoming, or a class change.
Maybe he needs a divine encounter of some kind with an agent or another seasoned Cleric to offer some guidance.
Maybe he sets out on his road to independence, retains his gifts, and discovers later that he has been furthering his deity’s will despite his best efforts.

I think if you work with your player, you can come up with a really cool character arc here.

Relevant to his specific situation: Did this friend that died do so willingly?
Maybe he receives a dream or a visit from that departed soul begging that he take up the cause, and explains the value of being part of something greater than himself?
Maybe the PC needs to see what happens if he sots out of the great conflict. A village falls because no one defends it? A child in danger and no one looks like they’re gonna do anything about it? He meets an old soldier that abandoned his cause, and regrets it, etc....

[Malifice]

If he has no god then he has no source of spells, no ability to turn undead, no divine power, pure and simple. He'll have to either worship another god or be one of those secular clerics who devotes themselves to a concept.

Not necessarily.

A player could totally renounce his God, and the God could continue to grant powers any way.

God(s) work in mysterious ways.

Thoross of Myr was a drunkard who had all but forsaken his God, yet he was still granted the power to Raise Dead. Even Melisandre was also granted this exact power, and only after she had herself suffered a crisis of faith in her God.

[Vorpalchicken]

Was his god acting like a d**k?

[1Pirate]

This really depends on whether this is a character issue or a player issue. If the player is dissatisfied with his character, then talk it over out of game and see what they want to do.

If it's more of a character thing, then it's kind of up to you if you want to enforce consequences. Personally, I'd let him keep his powers as is, but change the description(but not the mechanics) of his channel divinity and spell effects, sort of imply that someone or something else is answering his prayers(for example, his Warding Flare is now a sudden flash of darkness instead of light). If he asks why it's changed suddenly, put on your DM face and say his character doesn't know. Then down the road, have him find out that his actions have been unwittingly aiding the gods of darkness.

[Yuki Akuma]

Punishing players mechanically for roleplaying is the worst thing D&D ever did, and I was glad when fourth edition said "once you have Divine powers you have them forever, even if you betray your god's core teachings in the most vile way possible".

D&D 5e doesn't give any details on what happens if a Cleric renounces his god, so I'd say nothing particularly happens.

[Mr.Spastic]

I have edited the starter post with new information to hopefully get this conversation going in the right direction. Please read Edit 2 in the starter post before posting further.

Also, stop telling me not to take away his class abilities. That is not the point of this thread.

[Malifice]

Was his god acting like a d**k?

Dont they all?

[Yuki Akuma]

Also, stop telling me not to take away his class abilities. That is not the point of this thread.

Too bad! That's what happens when you frame it as a punishment.

[Mr.Spastic]

Too bad! That's what happens when you frame it as a punishment.

Except for I didn't. I said the word punishment, but then immediately followed it up by saying it os not the most appropiate word just the only one I can think of. Sure it is a penalty on the player, but he is on board with it and mad ehis desicion after a discussion with me. If your just going to say we're playing the game wrong please just leave. I'm looking for people who will provide actual suggestions.

[jdolch]

Severe spanking.

[Vorpalchicken]

If his character is no longer empowered by his diety then my suggestion is to completely remake the character as a different class of the same level. I would also allow him to rearrange his ability scores to allow his new class to function. Of course keep his name and maybe make his background acolyte if that's appropriate.

What you don't want is a cleric that is missing cleric abilities.

[Angelalex242]

I'd punish the DM for thinking taking powers away is a good idea. Probably by walking away from the table.

[ChampionWiggles]

I mean, if the character doesn't to be any sort of Cleric anymore then it kind of sounds like you're in need of doing a straight class switch for the character. I honestly can't think of any other way to go about it. Let's break down what classes are viable or make sense.

Barbarian: This one works mechanically, but that's assuming your Life Cleric is a STR build. The rage that fuels this character as a barbarian could be the rage he feels towards the gods or over his friend's death. Bonus points if he went Ancestral Barbarian and instead of the spirits of his ancestors watch over him, the spirit of his dead paladin friend would work well. The only real big problem I could see would be the loss of Heavy Armor Prof and trying to explain why the character all of a sudden doesn't know how to wear heavy armor effectively. The hit dice are different, but part of the "punishment" is that he doesn't get to roll new hit points if switching to a class with a bigger hit dice.

Bard: IDK what sort of stats this character has, but Bard could work if he doesn't multiclass and CHA was their dump stat. Again, the bigger problem would be to in-game explain why this character lost knowledge on use of weapons and armor they perfectly knew how to use not long ago.

Druid: While druid would make sense mechanically since it's another WIS based class, story-wise it wouldn't. Druids stand for the preservation of nature and take different kinds of training on how they invoke their spells.

Fighter: Pretty much the other class that makes most sense and easiest to transfer straight over. They keep all their proficiencies and the class works whether they were a STR or DEX Life Cleric. Could even say that they remember some semblance of how to cast spells as a Cleric and say they can use WIS as spell casting ability if they chose Eldritch Knight, but then again, that doesn't feel like a "Punishment" and might cause some hurt feelings.

Monk: This one could make sense thematically. After losing a friend and questioning their beliefs, they take up martial arts and mediating while they try to figure out what they really believe in and where their place in the world is. Mechanically it'd be iffy, since again...losing proficiencies, on top of monks are supposed to have had training to use their weapons and martial arts. Could make them lvl 4-5 Monk as part of their "punishment" and to explain the lack of training.

Paladin: Nope...just no and pretty self-explanatory "why". Only far fetched reason I could think is they try "Oathbreaker" paladin, because Oathbreakers have had all their inner-light leave them and have no hope for the world. Could have that be the case for this character, but again, seems far fetched.

Ranger: If they were a DEX Life Cleric, this could make sense, giving that this person has an attunement/respect for nature or could take up a new found respect for the natural order of things and become a Ranger

Rogue: Again, if they are DEX Cleric, this makes it an easy class transition. Also again...loss of proficiency...how explain?

Sorcerer: Doubtful, since if they were a Sorcerer imbued with natural magical abilities...they'd know by now. Could say the loss of a friend ignited this character's sorcerer "spark" but...eh...

Warlock: Not a bad choice, though they wouldn't be optimal. I also don't think the character would see much difference in making a pact with an entity much different than serving a god. Trading servitude for power one way or another.

Wizard: The knowledge and studying that's required of Wizards means this wouldn't make any sense.

TL;DR : The best way to go about this would be to just do a straight class transfer.
If they are STR Cleric: Barbarian or Fighter with the lack of HP part of the "punishment" you seek.
If they are DEX Cleric: Rogue, Ranger, or Monk (In that order of pref) and have a 1-2 lvl penalty as part of the "punishment" for lack of actual training for any of those classes.

Whatever class they choose, I'd also recommend that they keep their Cleric skill and saving throw proficiences so that it's rather apparent where the character started.

[Unoriginal]

I'll start off by saying that I don't like the word "punish" in the title but I couldn't think of anything better. In a campaign that I am running one of my players, who was playing a cleric, decided that he didn't want t serve his god anymore. At this current point in time he has not started serving another god. I told him that he would be having some of his powers stripped away until he either decides to retake service or finds a new deity or forms a pact. What I want to know is how would you guys depower the player? I would also like some advice on how to do this with warlocks, paladins, druids, and rangers for if it ever pops up. Should I just leave him with armor and weapon proficiencies he got from the class? Should I penealize his level in a new option? He has already stated that he will except whatever ruling I give but I don't want to make him useless. Please Help.

Edit:For reference, the players character was a level 6 Light Cleric. The god he followed was a custom god for the setting called Lys the Lady of Light. Her whole shtick was this eternal feud with these the god of darkness. Yes, I get it is stereotypical but we were all taking it seriously. When our paladin in the party, also a servant of Lys and a really good friend of the cleric, died in battle, the cleric began to question whether he wanted to die in service of some god's whims. The war between light and dark was more of a cosmic thing and was prophesied to conclude at the end of time with both gods killing each other. Taking up a role in the faith and becoming either a paladin or a cleric was seen as a great cause and was supported by the masses. In the character's backstory he took up the faith as a matter of tradition and honor and didn't think through the whole "battle the forces of darkness for all your life" thing. Lys basically only uses her followers in a very utilitarian way so if they strayed from their purpose it makes sense that they would be almost instantly denied their power.

P.S. To the person who side "the gods work in mysterious ways." I CONTROL THOSE GODS.

Edit 2: They character has NO interest in being a cleric not even for the magic. I thought that was implied by the post but I guess I have to spell it out. He does not have any of his cleric magic anymore. I want to power down the character and have received permission to do so. Both me and the player have come to the consensus that it makes sense to do so and are willing to experiment with certain things. I just want some suggestions to figure out some ways to make this work.

Remove his Spellcasting and any divine power he has. He's now a warrior above the cut of the common folk, but far from great compared to martials who have trained for this and were as strong as him when he had Cleric magic.

If you want to be nice, have a Patron offer him Warlock power for a free "re-train all your class levels". Make it one of the Patrons that don't demand service past the initial contract, and one who's relatively cheap, like Raxivort (who is known to offer Warlock Pacts to people in exchange of and interesting magic item).

Or you coud do the "go on a quest to retrain yourself" thing. Maybe have them go to a master/school which can make up for lost time and allow a retrain.

IMO there shouldn't be no consequence for that kind of things, and there should be a price (also why I think the Raxivort thing is a good idea). Would you just let a Fighter become a Cleric of equivalent level by snapping their fingers?

[Greywander]

So, to summarize, the character no longer wishes to be a cleric, of this god or any other. The player is content to have their character stripped of their power, and is largely willing to go along with the RP behind this turn of events.

Option 1: The cleric is stripped of all of their spells and channel divinity options, but retains any other class features. They can't take any more cleric levels, and will need to multiclass. This will result in a character that is severely gimped in power compared to their comrades, but this is what the character (and player) have chosen.

Option 2: You allow the cleric to retrain all their class levels and swap them out for a different class. This lets them follow through on the roleplay without suffering a mechanical disadvantage.

Option 3: You combine the above two option. First, they immediately become a depowered cleric, as per option 1. As they continue to adventure and find a new place in life, you let them gradually replace cleric levels with levels in a different class. In other words, at appropriate intervals (usually justified through RP), you let them trade cleric levels for levels in something else. This ends up being the same as option 2, but makes the transition more gradual and forces them to deal with the consequences and fallout of their decision to leave the faith.

Option 4: If the player is done playing that character, retire that character and roll up a new one. It sounds like they've reached a major point in their character arc, and it might be entirely appropriate to turn them into an NPC, if that's what the player wants to do.

Ultimately, you need to have a conversation with the player about what they'd like to do, although it sounds like you already have. I would present these four options to them and let them choose the one that they like the best.

[Lombra]

Here's how I would have done this:

Get rid only of the cleric's subclass features, he no longer serves the Light, but he's been a cleric for (I assume) most of his life, and in my opinion that's more than enough to retain his abilities, but that's setting dependant so in your case what makes sense may vary for this.

Then, talking to the player, I'll have him decide how does he want to play the rest of the game, maybe a change of class or subclass, or maybe just leave it as-is.

From the backstory I would see fit either a conversion to another domain (life maybe), or a conversion to paladin, maybe vengeance, no longer sworn to dieties but to an ideal.

Or he could drop the holy thing all along and become a martial character. Maybe he just wants to retire, get a family, and live a good life.

[terodil]

I'd punish the DM for thinking taking powers away is a good idea. Probably by walking away from the table.
Haha. I knew this would be coming. Thanks for not disappointing me.

@OP: I think it's a brilliant opportunity for RP and I also agree with consequences for this action. After all, what's the point of RP if you never, ever feel the result of your actions? Telling your very own god to sod off SHOULD have consequences for a god-centered (as opposed to ideal-centered) cleric. I really want to applaud your player for going this route and actually wanting to bite the bullet.

I'd allow him to retrain into another class of the same level, with the caveat that it would take a bit of time. E.g., you could keep his base attributes, HP etc where they are at the moment, make him lose all cleric abilities and features, and for every session, allow him to 'train' one (or maybe two) level(s) of whatever class he wants to be. On the final level-up, let him reassign his ability scores. I admit that this is playing softball, but RP should not be overly punishing either, so I think this might be a viable compromise between 'feeling the sting' and 'not crippling the character'. You might also consider awarding inspiration more generously than normal during this time of transition for him RPing his crisis of faith convincingly.

[Contrast]

I mean from the description you've given it sounds like the PC is opting to cease being a PC. Deciding he doesn't want to risk his life in someone elses battles and turn away from the heights of power to live as a normal man is a perfectly acceptable way to retire a PC. Even if the player wanted to have the PC stick around my initial thought would be to offer to have them be an NPC under their partial control who hangs around with the party while they bring a new PC in.

I think taking away class abilities and depowering the PC is a bad decision but one you seem dead set on making so I'll offer the following advice. Just removing them and replacing them with nothing would be rubbish. You could maybe allow a rebuild as a fighter or whatever class seems most appropriate to the character minus a level or two to represent the depowering. Rebuilding as a paladin could be interesting actually, representing the remnants of the divine energy left within them.


I would also like some advice on how to do this with warlocks, paladins, druids, and rangers for if it ever pops up. Should I just leave him with armor and weapon proficiencies he got from the class?

I'm intrigued what you think a druid or ranger could do to lose access to class abilities. As far as I'm aware (your setting may be different of course) their spells aren't granted to them but rather something they have figured out how to access. They can do whatever the hell they like with them. Out of interest would you remove a fighters access to class abilities if he described himself as lazy so he wasn't keeping up with his training?

Warlock I'd let them turn their back on the patron with no consequences for their abilities but it would likely have in game repercussions as their patron starts to act against them by other methods. I don't really support its use but they did make an oathbreaker paladin archetype.

[Unoriginal]

A Cleric without a god is just a dude with some combat training and some skills. That's part of the package.

There's nothing bad about losing that power when both character and player are OK with it. Though I do feel a bit puzzled about the "don't want to die in the service of a god" thing. I mean be it from disease or weapons or old age, dying in the service of a god is something all worshipers. And as a decently leveled Cleric, you can bring people back to life.

Guess the Cleric just had a crisis of faith and decided to nope the **** out, but still, it feels like he was pretty shaker by realising his own mortality.

Anyway, OP, does the character still want to adventure? As said above, retiring is a legit choice.

[Capac Amaru]

Man, I wish I could replace all my class levels with different ones.

I've made some really bad leveling up decisions in my life.

[terodil]

Man, I wish I could replace all my class levels with different ones.

I've made some really bad leveling up decisions in my life.
Yeah. Same. What's more, I think that my DM is also really, really terrible. Not quite ready to leave the table yet though!

[Capac Amaru]

Yeah. Same. What's more, I think that my DM is also really, really terrible. Not quite ready to leave the table yet though!

I swear he's fudging dice rolls behind the screen just to get me sometimes.

[MThurston]

Have his powers work only when they help the light.

Anytime he tries to use spells to help the Dark, they do not work or harm the cleric.

God are 100% real in D&D. You just don't get to be agnostics or atheist.

It's lazy to not have consequences for turning away from a God. But with that, I wouldn't strip them down fully unless they continues to further an opposing Gods agenda.

[Unoriginal]

I swear he's fudging dice rolls behind the screen just to get me sometimes.

That "secret disease table" rolled by that DM at character creaction was really a red flag.

[Sahe]

That "secret disease table" rolled by that DM at character creaction was really a red flag.

Not to mention I didn't get to chose my characters gender. That really ****ed me over and I now have to spent a lot of resources on magic items to change that. -.-

A bit more on topic:

A Paladin who breaks their Oath would lose their Subclass features and possibly their Magical Abilities (Including Smites, Lay on Hands), depending on how thoroughly they broke the Oath. I would also allow a Paladin to seek atonement and even swear a new oath to regain their powers. They wouldn't lose their martial features like Fighting Style or Extra Attack.

A Cleric would lose Spellcasting, Channel Divinity and all other powers they derive from their god, pretty much leaving them with proficiencies. They would be allowed to switch Domain or reaffirm their belief in their domain.

Rangers, Druids as well as Totem and Ancient Barbarians are a bit tricky. In my mind they're closely related to spirits which is where they derive their magic from. I would be hard pressed to have someone lose much. A druid wearing armor made of metal would more likely get strange looks from other druids and might be ostracized. It really depends and for me would be a case by case thing.

In case of a Warlock it depends a lot on the Patron. I can totally see a Devil taking away power due to a breach of contract, that you weren't aware about because you didn't read the Subsection C-24 on page 666 written in invisible ink. Obviously, such a Patron would be happy to make a new contract. I might have an Archfey take away a Warlocks power just because they thought it would be interesting...or you broke a promise...or on the other hand they might give you additional power just cause that's fun and they wanna see what happens. A Great Old One may not even know that you're a Warlock of them...or they do, but they couldn't care less. If a Warlock lost all their power because they're at odds with their patron they could reaquire it, by renegotiating a deal with the patron or maybe another (rival) Patron approaches them and offers them what they lost.

As a general rule if power can be taken away I usually would allow a player some flexibility in reacquiring it. Giving them some flexibility even by allowing to change subclasses. A Martial Character, Bard or Wizard who in my mind gains their power through training and studying couldn't lose their powers like that, but also couldn't change their subclass. Also because it was brought up earlier, an actively adventuring character probably doesn't really need to "keep up training" since they'll constantly use their skills and abilities in encounters automatically keeping up.

Obviously it's important to clearly communicate with the players and tell them what happens if they bite the hand that feeds them so to speak.

[Unoriginal]

It should be noted that for Warlocks, a Patron *cannot* take back the spark of power once it's given as a default, and if losing the powers is a possibility it has to be precised in the Pact and known by both parties.

[MThurston]

Another thing you cant do is only have his spells effect others.

His healing spells don't work on him.

He can't hold a weapon that he cast magic weapon on.

Spiritual weapon attacks on its own or can't be cast at all or only attacks targets that attack the cleric.

[KnotaGuru]

Why is the player continuing to play a cleric? Does he want to continue playing the cleric or is this his way out telling you he wants to reroll his character? Does the player desire to keep playing at all?

I liked the idea someone mentioned about allowing him keep his basic cleric abilities but stripping his domain features until the player chooses another deity/domain.

How do the rest of the players at the table feel about having a player in the party that has forsaken his class abilities and is no longer contributing? Are the other players encouraging him to resume his faith? Are they resentful over his decision? A cleric without spells is just a guy with decent hit points and AC that gets 1 attack/turn for poor damage.

What is your goal as the DM? Do you have a plan to win the character's faith back? Kill him off? Allow a reroll?

[Mellack]

If you are dead set on this, I would suggest either letting them respec into another class such as fighter, or have them retire as an NPC and bring in a new character. Playing a depowered cleric would just be boring IMO.

[saucerhead]

@OP: I think it's a brilliant opportunity for RP and I also agree with consequences for this action. After all, what's the point of RP if you never, ever feel the result of your actions? Telling your very own god to sod off SHOULD have consequences for a god-centered (as opposed to ideal-centered) cleric. I really want to applaud your player for going this route and actually wanting to bite the bullet. (snip)
You might also consider awarding inspiration more generously than normal during this time of transition for him RPing his crisis of faith convincingly.

I have played a character that broke both alignment and faith to a deity. I think terodil is right, there is good potential for character development (role playing, not optimization). There should be consequences, and for a player that is interested in the story being created, a willingness to play through those circumstances. My character lost all divine abilities, became a fighter and was effectively cursed in non-combat situations for about a year of game time. Respectable people could "see" the curse upon me and wouldn't trade with, feed or shelter my character. Instead I had to deal with society's scum, who were oblivious to my curse, but treated me as one of their own. My character was not great in combat, because he wasn't optimized, but he eventually trained and got better at his role. Ultimately, I sought out the advice of sages and priests, most of whom would not help, to find a way to lift the curse. It was a quest with no other reward, and once it was completed felt like a real achievement.
It really depends on your player. It sounds like they want the character to continue to grow past this broken faith.

I am wondering how you played it in the moment. Did celestial beings come down and guide the soul of the fallen paladin towards the light? Did one of them silently strip the cleric of his holy symbol?

[Mr.Spastic]

Thank you to the people who gave helpful suggestions. I have just had a discussion with my player today and we have come to a happy agreement. To address some of the questions I have seen I will give some answers.

1) We are a more roleplay heavy group everyone has seen this as a great opportunity for powerful story telling.

2) Yes the player wants to keep his character. See above

3) Our last session ended with the paladin dying in the last fight which is why I wanted the help. The two players created a touching moment where the cleric and the paladin exchanged a few last words with each other. The paladin said "Was this worth it? To give my life for a god that only sees me as a tool?"

4) We have come to the conclusion that the Light Cleric will take the paladins greatsword and become an Ancestrial Barbarian . His anger and grief at his friends death fuelling his rage. He will drop to level 4 and get a respec on his stats.

It is looking like it will be a fun time. Thank you again to those who gave helpful suggestions.

[Unoriginal]

Man that Paladin was bitter in the end. Will be awkward when he pops in the god's heaven and see the surprise party deity & angels had prepared in his honor to thank him for his service.

[KnotaGuru]

3) Our last session ended with the paladin dying in the last fight which is why I wanted the help. The two players created a touching moment where the cleric and the paladin exchanged a few last words with each other. The paladin said "Was this worth it? To give my life for a god that only sees me as a tool?"

4) We have come to the conclusion that the Light Cleric will take the paladins greatsword and become an Ancestrial Barbarian . His anger and grief at his friends death fuelling his rage. He will drop to level 4 and get a respec on his stats.

This is a time for the cleric to man up and prove that his friend's death was not in vain, that fighting in the name of this deity has honor and purpose. The character channels his grief and anguish to become the very embodiment of vengeance. Nice job on the barbarian respec.

The question now is, does the character choose to carry on the decree and fight FOR his deity or hatred AGAINST his deity for letting something terrible happen to devote followers?