Float Like Lo Pan, Sting like a Mage

[Klaus Teufel]

I want to create a spell to reflect the sort of floating that some magic users do in fiction, comics, and movies.


Serene Glide

transmutation cantrip

Casting Time: 1 action.

Range: Self

Components: a dandelion seed

Duration: up to 8 hours

Once cast this spell allows the user to float one foot above the surface at up to 15 feet per round, although they may hover. It can float across an empty gap of no more than 5 feet. It does not work if the target is encumbered, or wearing any form of armour or shield. The user may land and float multiple times within the duration of the spell. If the user takes bludgeoning damage while floating, they are pushed back 10 feet. Spells and effects that would force the floating user to move have double their movement effect.


It is meant more for colour than effect; although it would avoid pressure-plate traps, and would be a poor man's 'Water Walk'.

Analysis or criticisms, anyone?

[LudicSavant]

I want to create a spell to reflect the sort of floating that some magic users do in fiction, comics, and movies.


Serene Glide

transmutation cantrip

Casting Time: 1 action.

Range: Self

Components: a dandelion seed

Duration: up to 8 hours

Once cast this spell allows the user to float one foot above the surface at up to 15 feet per round, although they may hover. It can float across an empty gap of no more than 5 feet. It does not work if the target is encumbered, or wearing any form of armour or shield. The user may land and float multiple times within the duration of the spell. If the user takes bludgeoning damage while floating, they are pushed back 10 feet. Spells and effects that would force the floating user to move have double their movement effect.


It is meant more for colour than effect; although it would avoid pressure-plate traps, and would be a poor man's 'Water Walk'.

Analysis or criticisms, anyone?

The forced movement thing seems like it's just begging for exploits.

[JackPhoenix]

Definitely not cantrip material. Especially if you include 8 hour duration... that's clear indication you'll have this on whole day and don't need to recast it all the time.

[Klaus Teufel]

The forced movement thing seems like it's just begging for exploits.Such as?


Definitely not cantrip material. Especially if you include 8 hour duration... that's clear indication you'll have this on whole day and don't need to recast it all the time.So, should I reduce the duration? What should be the duration? (You're right, cantrips can be cast whenever.)

Or should I beef it up and make it 1st level?

[DevilMcam]

Levitate is a 2nd level spell in the player handbook.

I think It would do exactly what you are looking for

[Laird]

Such as?

So, should I reduce the duration? What should be the duration? (You're right, cantrips can be cast whenever.)

Or should I beef it up and make it 1st level?

If you want to keep it a cantrip I would allow something like this in my games:

Serene Glide
Transmutation Cantrip

Casting Time: 1 action.

Range: Self

Components: a dandelion seed

Duration: instantaneous

You gently rise into the air 5 feet off the ground, and for every 5 feet of horizontal movement you take, you gently float down 1 foot. You cannot cast this spell if you are not on solid ground.

That way it doesn't replace Featherfall at the cantrip level, and still has some interesting utility. This spell also allows one to float 5feet indefinitely if they do not move without concentration. Should also be noted that the effect of the spell counts as forced movement, as you have no control over rising higher, it also does not use your movement for the height gained.

[Klaus Teufel]

Levitate is a 2nd level spell in the player handbook.

I think It would do exactly what you are looking forNo. Levitate doesn't give you movement. You can't glide down a hall or through a room.


If you want to keep it a cantrip I would allow something like this in my games:

Serene Glide
Transmutation Cantrip

Casting Time: 1 action.

Range: Self

Components: a dandelion seed

Duration: instantaneous

You gently rise into the air 5 feet off the ground, and for every 5 feet of horizontal movement you take, you gently float down 1 foot. You cannot cast this spell if you are not on solid ground.

That way it doesn't replace Featherfall at the cantrip level, and still has some interesting utility. This spell also allows one to float 5feet indefinitely if they do not move without concentration. Should also be noted that the effect of the spell counts as forced movement, as you have no control over rising higher, it also does not use your movement for the height gained. Again, it's not a movement power. I want a movement power. Also, my version doesn't replace featherfall... although I guess I could clarify that:

"If you are more than 1 foot off the ground at any time during the duration of the spell, you fall to the ground and take normal falling damage for the height fallen."

[Laird]

No. Levitate doesn't give you movement. You can't glide down a hall or through a room.

Again, it's not a movement power. I want a movement power.

If you just want something flavorful then take my above cantrip modify its duration to 'Up to 10 minutes with concentration and change it so that you can either have the first effect as instantaneous and the second effect as concentration. It allows you some measure of utility (no more pressure plates) requires concentration but also allows movement. Add in your part with the 5 foot gaps and its actually a pretty nifty cantrip now. A gentle graceful descent, or a semi permanent 1 ft "hover" while not in combat.

[Jophiel]

I'd change it to "float one foot above walkable ground" or "solid ground" or something similar to prevent water/lava walking with a cantrip. You'd still slowly float over pressure plates and low tripwires.

[Keravath]

I'd suggest 6" height since you are mostly looking for the gliding effect. It should include gliding up and down stairs though just for the spooky nature. It shouldn't look like they are walking.

I'd make it a first level spell though if you keep the 8 hour duration.

If you want a cantrip then perhaps reduce the time to one minute or 10 minutes.

Alternatively, you could roll this into a feat giving a +1 to stat, allowing gliding movement and an always on feather fall. That might be about balanced.

[Mr.Spastic]

This is basically just a weaker version of Fly right. The problem with what you want is that it offer some ridiculous stuff and you want to get it for free.

Let's look at the problems with what you want.

1) Avoid all ground based traps, spells, and terrain. This gets around any floor trap and and spells like Spike Growth. You would also ignore most forms of difficult terrain.

2) There is no precedent for such abilities at the level you want them. The only things that kind of do this are Storm Sorcerer, the spell Levitate, and Fly

3) The duration you want is way to high. Especially without concentration

4) "Flight" should not be readily available until about level 5. Level 3 for simple things like only moving upwards with levitate.

How do we fix these issues?

A really simple fix is to add a house rule onto levitate where instead of moving only vertically you can only move horizontally. So instead of going straight up, which is very useful at level 3. You can only go left, right, forward, and backwards.

Another really easy fix is to play a high level sorcerer or an Aarokocra. If you have an innate flying speed you also accomplish what you want.

[druid91]

Honestly, I don't think the initial cantrip has any real issues. Being able to ignore difficult terrain is the only real issue, and half the time difficult terrain isn't even included in adventures.

It doesn't stop pit traps, which you fall into just fine. It doesn't stop the 90% of NON-floor based traps, and in fact makes the caster more vulnerable to being home-runned INTO a trap because the increased forced movement.

Just throw on a clause saying that the spell ends if you are forced over an edge.

[Vorpalchicken]

Perhaps this could be a feat, with the prerequisite of being able to cast at least one spell. It would grant at will flying with a speed of 15 feet (no duration or concentration) and a maximum altitude of 5 feet. Perhaps some other minor benefits.

This would make it more rare than simply being able to select it as a cantrip and would delay its appearance to all except dedicated humans.

[Son of A Lich!]

I'd let this... Fly! (Badump-tish!) at my table with two caveats;

You only float a foot off the ground (No, you can't use a cantrip to avoid a swarm of angry rats or dogs or whatever).

It requires concentration, and can be cast on others.

Okay, 3 caveats.

I also wouldn't specify the damage type for the knock back effect, and instead just push and disadvantage on concentration checks.

So, that way, the wizard or druid or whomever is encouraged to place this on a melee type rather then themselves. I'd justify that it would be like being a walking balloon, any contact is going to send you floating away and spinning around in circles.

I don't think a sword or fireball would be more polite then a mace.

This is like "Baby's first flying spell". It would also help the clunkly loud cleric from Clanging up a ruckus when we're all trying to be stealthy.

[LudicSavant]

Such as?

Setting up a repeated source of small bludgeoning damage / forced movement to blast off seems pretty silly.

You could grab some minions and jump a few hundred feet. Doubt that's intended.

[JackPhoenix]

ISo, that way, the wizard or druid or whomever is encouraged to place this on a melee type rather then themselves. I'd justify that it would be like being a walking balloon, any contact is going to send you floating away and spinning around in circles.

That sounds like disadvantage on attacks, though, because you can forget about footwork or leverage without proper ground contact. *checks Levitate* Hm, 5e version doesn't do that, but 3.5 gave you increasing penalty to your attack due to unstable position.

And I'd either make it 8 hours duration on 1st level spell and tone it down a bit (lower height, no flying over water and so, though I would propably kept normal movement speed.), or 1 minute duration concentration cantrip.

[Klaus Teufel]

This is mage-specific. I'd only put it on Wizard, Warlock, and Sorcerer lists. It's specifically not meant for melee.

Thank you all for your feedback and suggestions! My latest version, taking your comments into account:



Serene Glide​
​
transmutation cantrip​
​
Casting Time: 1 action.​
​
Range: Self​
​
Components: a dandelion seed​
​
Duration: up to 10 minutes*​
*If you glide over a liquid, the duration of this spell changes to:​
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute.​
​
Once cast this spell allows you to fly 15 feet per round, one foot above a horizontal or gently sloping surface or stairway, although you may hover up to 3 feet while not moving. You can float across an empty gap of no more than 5 feet. If the gap is more than 5 feet, or you are more than 3 feet above the ground at any time during the spell, you fall and take full damage and the spell ends.​
​
You may land and float multiple times within the duration of the spell. If you take bludgeoning damage while floating, you are pushed back 10 feet and the spell ends. Spells and effects that would force you to move have double their movement effect and end the spell.
​
This spell does not work if you are encumbered, or wearing any form of armour or shield, or are tethered or forced to move faster than 15 feet per round.​

Have I missed anything?

[Misterwhisper]

I would say:

1st level spell
Lasts 8 hours no concentration

Until this spell ends you float a few inches above the ground while you are standing still or moving.
If you are knocked prone for any reason, or take the dash action this spell ends.

[Laird]

Have I missed anything?

I like it! You have all the bases covered and it's not really abusable as such yet still has a fun effect.

[JackPhoenix]

Snip

Yes. Water Walk is 3rd level spell. Even with concentration, you shouldn't have the same functionality on a cantrip.

[LudicSavant]

Yes. Water Walk is 3rd level spell. Even with concentration, you shouldn't have the same functionality on a cantrip.

Eh. This is kinda like arguing that Light shouldn't exist when Continual Flame is a thing.

Water Walk is a no-Concentration ritual that you can maintain for an entire party, potentially all day (remember that you can cast rituals while moving). And knowing a ritual is often a lower opportunity cost than knowing a cantrip. This isn't comparable, especially since it's halving your movement speed.


Duration: up to 10 minutes*​
*If you glide over a liquid, the duration of this spell changes to:​
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute.​

This is needlessly clunky. If you've been gliding for a minute and a half, then go over water, what happens? And if it's a cantrip, the "1 minute" and "10 minutes" thing is basically a negligible difference, because you can just recast it endlessly.

[JackPhoenix]

Eh. This is kinda like arguing that Light shouldn't exist when Continual Flame is a thing.

Water Walk is a no-Concentration ritual that you can maintain for an entire party, potentially all day (remember that you can cast rituals while moving). And knowing a ritual is often a lower opportunity cost than knowing a cantrip. This isn't comparable, especially since it's halving your movement speed.

This is needlessly clunky. If you've been gliding for a minute and a half, then go over water, what happens? And if it's a cantrip, the "1 minute" and "10 minutes" thing is basically a negligible difference, because you can just recast it endlessly.

Light can be replaced by 1 cp torch. It's nothing special. Ignoring water or other such surfaces (as you've noted, he can just keep recasting the spell) is. It's not as big deal as flying, but it's still functionality that isn't supposed to be available from level 1 at minimal cost.

[Mr.Spastic]

Eh. This is kinda like arguing that Light shouldn't exist when Continual Flame is a thing.

But continual flame is a thing because it's... continual. It's meant as more of a environmental thing like a Continual Flame Torch in a wizards tower.

Light is a cantrip because you get the same use out of a torch. Mold Earth is a cantrip because shovels exist. Combat cantrips exist so casters don't suck without their spells but won't be out doing the melee types(except eldritch blast).

The point of a cantrip isn't to give you some game shaping powers, it's to give you a quicker way to do things most tools can do. Giving you very limited flight should not be a cantrip. If you were to make it a level one spell I would still say with the current parameters it is too much. As a level one spell it should only last you ten minutes at max and require concentration.

[Klaus Teufel]

This is needlessly clunky. If you've been gliding for a minute and a half, then go over water, what happens? And if it's a cantrip, the "1 minute" and "10 minutes" thing is basically a negligible difference, because you can just recast it endlessly. Damn, you're right. :(
I guess gliding across the water is right out.



Serene Glide​
​
transmutation cantrip​
​
Casting Time: 1 action.​
​
Range: Self​
​
Components: a dandelion seed​
​
Duration:up to 10 minutes

Once cast this spell allows you to fly 15 feet per round, one foot above a horizontal or gently sloping solid surface or stairway, although you may hover up to 3 feet while not moving. You can float across an empty gap of no more than 5 feet. If the gap is more than 5 feet, or you are more than 3 feet above the ground at any time during the spell, you fall and take full damage and the spell ends.​
​
You may land and float multiple times within the duration of the spell. If you take bludgeoning damage while floating, you are pushed back 10 feet and the spell ends. Spells and effects that would force you to move have double their movement effect and end the spell.
​
This spell does not work if you are encumbered, or wearing any form of armour or shield, or are tethered or forced to move faster than 15 feet per round.​

[LudicSavant]

The point of a cantrip isn't to give you some game shaping powers, it's to give you a quicker way to do things most tools can do.

I'm not sure where you got this idea of cantrips just being mundane tool replacers, but that sentiment simply isn't true for Guidance, Minor Illusion, Mage Hand, Shape Water, etc etc. These are highly useful powers that are not easily replicated by tools.

Cantrips are supposed to be useful and meaningful abilities in 5e.


Mold Earth is a cantrip because shovels exist. And Shape Water exists because flash freeze refrigerators exi... oh wait, they don't. This isn't an actual design constraint.


Light is a cantrip because you get the same use out of a torch.

If this were actually true, people wouldn't be using a cantrip slot on it and Wizard guides wouldn't be telling you to grab it. Because you're totally taking this instead of something like Shape Water or Green-Flame Blade or Encode Thoughts, and all of those things are worth more than 1cp to you.

Light gives you the ability to apply a heatless light of any color to any <=10x10 object and then be able to block out that light entirely with anything opaque. I can think of all kinds of uses for that beyond just holding a burning stick in my hand.

[NaughtyTiger]

It still seems strong for a cantrip. It is stronger than the 3rd level spell levitate.

consider it as a replacement for storm sorceror ability
or (clunkier, but) the ability scales with PC level

1: hover
5: 10ft movement
11: 15ft movement, reduce falling damage
17: your move speed, no falling damage

[xroads]

It seems a bit powerful for a cantrip. The longest lasting cantrip I'm aware of is "Light", and it only lasts an hour.

I would try something like this...



Serene Glide​
​
1st level transmutation​
​
Casting Time: 1 action.​
​
Range: Self​
​
Components: V, S, M (a dandelion seed)​
​
Duration:8 hours

The caster floats a foot off the ground, ignoring difficult terrain. The caster's movement speed remains the same. The caster counts as being on the ground for all other concerns (ex. being pushed or gliding off a cliff).​

[Brawnspear]

Or instead of making a new cantrip, see if you can't add it as an option for the other "do magely things" cantrip. New prestidigitation option to "appear as if you are floating on colored motes of your choice". Could also work for thaumaturgy. Wear robes that go down very far to complete the effect.


Or as a separate cantrip mechanically:

Casting time: Bonus action
Duration: 1 minute
Your maximum jump distance increases by 5 feet. For the duration your feat hover several inches above any solid surface and you may apply any ground effect you choose, motes of light, swirling dust, flames etc. This hover effect still emits downwards force and you activate pressure plates and tripwires normally, as your magical energy forces you off the ground. Difficult terrain similarly rebounds your magical energy in uncontrollable directions halving your speed.


It gives you the hover effect visual along with an increased ability to clear gaps, making a 15 foot jump much more reasonable for a wizard than it once was. Jump spell straight up triples your distance so I don't think this steps on it's feet too much.

Could also make it concentration for 10 min.

[Klaus Teufel]

It seems a bit powerful for a cantrip. The longest lasting cantrip I'm aware of is "Light", and it only lasts an hour.

I would try something like this...



Serene Glide​
​
1st level transmutation​
​
Casting Time: 1 action.​
​
Range: Self​
​
Components: V, S, M (a dandelion seed)​
​
Duration:8 hours

The caster floats a foot off the ground, ignoring difficult terrain. The caster's movement speed remains the same. The caster counts as being on the ground for all other concerns (ex. being pushed or gliding off a cliff).​
How about the one in post 24?

[xroads]

How about the one in post 24?

I like it.

I'm still hung up on trying to making the duration 8 hours. Hence why I made it a 1st level spell.

But I think yours works real well as a cantrip. Short duration with limited effects, but useful (cantrips really are much more useful than I think some players give them credit for).

[ATHATH]

This review is of the spell presented in the opening post, not of any revised version that may have been posted since:

This is a cantrip that gives immunity to non-reach, non-flying melee combat, with no concentration or frequent recasting required. Every mage worth their salt (other than the ones that can already fly without using a Concentration spell or effect) that has access to this spell is gonna take it, and some casters will multiclass or take a feat just to get this cantrip.

The "gets knocked back by bludgeoning damage" thing is an upside, not a downside- it makes enemies that use melee bludgeoning attacks need to spend movement to catch up to you/follow you up between every attack (unless they use an attack of a different damage type, of course).

There's a reason that aarakocra are banned in AL, and this cantrip basically turns any caster that takes it into a aarakocra-lite that still has racial features from another class.

[Klaus Teufel]

1) Why not read the thread to see if your points have been made or refuted? Isn't ignoring the thread a form of um, well, it's rude to all the people who've already made points.

2) Why would floating 1 foot off the ground make people immune to "to non-reach, non-flying melee combat"?

3) If you did read the post and later versions of the spell, you'd see your issue about bludgeoning damage has been addressed.

[ATHATH]

1) Why not read the thread to see if your points have been made or refuted? Isn't ignoring the thread a form of um, well, it's rude to all the people who've already made points.

2) Why would floating 1 foot off the ground make people immune to "to non-reach, non-flying melee combat"?

3) If you did read the post and later versions of the spell, you'd see your issue about bludgeoning damage has been addressed.
It was originally 15 ft., no?

EDIT: Ah, I misread the movement speed as how high you can float off the ground. The spell is much worse, then, and is probably reasonable.