Help me figure out damage?

[skunk3]

This character has a STR of 16.

BAB is +8/+3.

Weapon is a Masterwork Adamantine Spiked Chain (2d4 damage when I am medium sized), +1 and with the Valorous enhancement also.

Feats used (for this question) are: Power Attack, Shock Trooper (the heedless charge bit, I believe) and Leap Attack. How does it all work together?

Believe it or not, I didn't even look up some cookie-cutter 'ubercharger' build - I actually stumbled across all of this stuff myself and then found out other people have had the same idea.

[DeTess]

This character has a STR of 16.

BAB is +8/+3.

Weapon is a Masterwork Adamantine Spiked Chain (2d4 damage when I am medium sized), +1 and with the Valorous enhancement also.

Feats used (for this question) are: Power Attack, Shock Trooper (the heedless charge bit, I believe) and Leap Attack. How does it all work together?

Believe it or not, I didn't even look up some cookie-cutter 'ubercharger' build - I actually stumbled across all of this stuff myself and then found out other people have had the same idea.

I think (but someone can correct me on this) that your Damage formula would be (2d4+Power Attack*2(from leap attack)+STR bonus)*2(from valorous weapon), for a maximum of (2d4+16*2+3)*2. As far as I can tell, the bonus from leap attack happens 'inside the brackets' because it only affects the power attack, rather than all damage.

[noce]

Assuming using two hands, base is 2d4+1+4.
If not charging you deal 200% power attack damage because you use two hands. When charging you deal +100% power attack damage for a 300% total (wrt attack penalty).
So, if taking -8 to armor class (shock trooper), you deal 2d4+1+4+24 = 2d4 + 29.
Valorous doubles that, for a grand total of 4d4 + 58.

[DeTess]

Assuming using two hands, base is 2d4+1+4.
If not charging you deal 200% power attack damage because you use two hands. When charging you deal +100% power attack damage for a 300% total (wrt attack penalty).
So, if taking -8 to armor class (shock trooper), you deal 2d4+1+4+24 = 2d4 + 29.
Valorous doubles that, for a grand total of 4d4 + 58.

Are you certain the bolded part is correct? I don't think using a two-handed weapon for power-attacking already involved DnD's multiplication rules (rather, it just causes a larger effect).

[noce]

Are you certain the bolded part is correct? I don't think using a two-handed weapon for power-attacking already involved DnD's multiplication rules (rather, it just causes a larger effect).

This is among the most debated rules.
In the table I play, every player and the DM agree to this interpretation. Still, you will find plenty of people on the web that say otherwise.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Leap Attack is pretty confusing, especially considering the Complete Adventurer Errata (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/errata).

Given the part of Leap Attack about two-handed weapons, it's most likely that Power Attack itself counts its two-handed effect as a doubling, and Leap Attack as another doubling, which results in the bonus being tripled.

Regarding doublings, think of it like this:

We have the Normal value (N), what's added for Doubling (D), and what's added for Tripling (T) as follows:
N (N=N)
D (D=1N)
T (T=2N)

Doubling is N+D (or N+1N)
Tripling is N+T (or N+2N)
Doubling twice is N+D+D
Doubling and tripling (Valorous and a x3 critical) is N+D+T


Base is 2d4+5 (2d4 weapon, +1 enhancement, 16 Str x1.5 rounded down is +4). Let's make this value Na.
Power Attack two-handed for -8 to hit (or -8 AC) is +8 damage, let's make this Nb. For two-handed and Leap Attack it's tripled, or Nb+2Nb.
Valorous doubles the whole thing, so your Na becomes Na+Na and your Nb+2Nb becomes Nb+Nb+2Nb. So that's 4d4+42.
On a critical hit for x2 you add Na and Nb each once again, for 6d4+55.
Get Armbands of Might (MIC, CA) which increases your bonus damage from Power Attack (value Nb) by +2. That makes it 4d4+50 normally, 6d4+65 on a critical hit.

Note that Leap Attack is not a doubling effect if you're using a one-handed weapon. So changing to a +1 Valorous Longsword gets you a base of 1d8+4 (value Na),
Power Attack for -4 to hit or AC is +8 damage which gets increased by 100% but not as a doubling effect for +16 (value Nb).
Valorous doubles the whole thing, Na+Na+Nb+Nb for 2d8+40.
On a critical hit for x2 it's 3d8+60. If you're using a Battleaxe for a x3 critical, it's 4d8+80.
If you have Armbands of Might your power attack bonus is +10 increased to +20 for Leap Attack, making your normal damage 2d8+44, and a critical hit 3d8+66 at x2 or 4d8+88 at x3.

[fallensavior]

This character has a STR of 16.

BAB is +8/+3.

Weapon is a Masterwork Adamantine Spiked Chain (2d4 damage when I am medium sized), +1 and with the Valorous enhancement also.

Feats used (for this question) are: Power Attack, Shock Trooper (the heedless charge bit, I believe) and Leap Attack. How does it all work together?

Believe it or not, I didn't even look up some cookie-cutter 'ubercharger' build - I actually stumbled across all of this stuff myself and then found out other people have had the same idea.

The most conservative interpretation of the "multiple multiplier" rule (phb 304)would result in this calculation:

2(2d4+1) weapon + 2.5(3) str + 4(8) PA = 12+7.5+32 = 51 average damage

or

3(2d4+1) weapon + 3.5(3) str + 5(8) PA = 18+10.5+40 = 68 average damage on a critical

[Crake]

Leap Attack is pretty confusing, especially considering the Complete Adventurer Errata (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/errata).

When you combine the original with the errata, I think it becomes clear what they're intending, that it's supposed to be a 1:3 ratio when two handed leap attacking.

Originally it said:

One handed you double the extra damage (from 1:1 to 1:2, no matter how you read it)
Two handed you triple the extra damage (does this mean from 1:2 to 1:6? Or does it mean that originally it was doubled, and now it's tripled, so 1:2 becomes 1:3? This was ambiguous)

Now we look at the errata:

It replaces the above with simply "You deal +100% extra damage from power attack".

Now, since we know for a fact that the one handed damage bonus is the same no matter which way you read it, then we know that +100% damage from power attack means either "increase the ratio by 1" or "double your normal ratio". Since only one of those matches up with one of the interpretations on two handed power attacking, we must conclude that the intended ratio for two handed power attacking is 1:3, and that "+100% extra damage from power attack" simply means "increase the ratio by 1".

As for how valorous interacts with the rest: the multiplication rules apply to specific parts. Consider valorous like a critical hit. The entire damage is doubled, so the individual effects being multiplied doesn't matter, as they aren't the entire effect. Things that valorous would use the dnd multiplying rules with though would include: Critical hits, and other total damage multipliers, such as ruby nightmare blade, spirited charge, or charging with a lance.