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View Full Version : [M&M 3e] Cookie Jars! alternate resource to Alternate Power Arrays. (WIP)



Son of A Lich!
2018-12-10, 10:08 PM
Background


Mission statement?


I've been playing M&Ms since 1e. It's easily my favorite RPG system I've used due to it's flexibility and I ultimately just want my players to feel cool doing the things they want to do. M&M has always delivered on this front. Whether you use it to do a Dungeon Crawl, a gritty horror story, or an Anime UA (I had a lot of success getting people into M&Ms with a Pokemon game, for example), M&M always makes it fun and easy once you get past character creation. Now, that's not to say that there are specific games that are better for what you want to play... But with enough elbow grease, M&M will always deliver a size 12 boot of JUSTICE to kick in the door and ensure everyone has a fun time.

I personally use a 3d6 variant, in place of the D20, but that is largely because I tend to do lower PP point games. Aside from that, I use Popcorn initiative (Roll to see who goes first, they decide who goes next until everyone has gone) and that's about as far as house rules go. I've been wanting to try out a variant based on 5e D&D turn set up, but honestly, I can't be bothered. What's important for the 5e crowd to keep in mind here is that Reactions are NOT limited to once per round.
This power variant rules provided here are to allow players to use M&M with a limited resource pool. Think of it as Spell points, or Ki (for 5e monks), or Grit for Pathfinder Gunslingers. You have a pool of resources to pull from to do extra bits you normally can't.

M&M has always had a little snag in the fact that it has a really hard time with "Big Finishing Moves" and I admit, I don't like the 'Energy Draining' arch-type they generally provide (An affliction with a linked Boost effect). It's servicable, it works, but I'd like to see players have options to 'get to' pull off big important feats of power without asking why they don't just do that every turn. AP powers help, but the Flaws needed to balance the power tend to make the power crippling in execution, and Power Stunts are cool, but it doesn't match up with what the player wants the finishing move to feel like in game.

So, taking a note from 1e's Container Power, I made the Cookie Jar (working title for Play testing purposes) a set of powers at 5pp per rank. Then, with 2e, I learned to call a spade a spade and split it into 3 different powers, and now with 3e, I'm comfortable with seeing it critiqued by the audience at large.




The Cookie Jar!
1st Draft (Translated into 3e)
We always look upon our first creations as masterpieces,
no matter how hideous they may actually be. -Urza, MtG



Action: Reaction Range: Personal
Duration: Sustained Cost: 5pp/Rank


You have a personal Font of power that you pull from to do extraordinary things. Perhaps a Battery core that supplies a power suit, or battle hardened Ki that you expend into energy beams, Choose a power that cost 2pp/rank. Your rank in this power is equal to your Ranks in [The Cookie Jar]. For each rank in [The Cookie Jar] you gain access to a [Cookie]. This [Cookie] may be used to 'activate' powers within your [The Cookie Jar] power array.

For each rank in [The Cookie Jar] you gain 1 additional power of any cost. This power is part of [The Cookie Jar Array], and is inert until activated with a reaction and the appropriate amount of [Cookies]. For every point above 2pp, the power costs 1 [cookie] to activate. [Cookies] are gained over time; 1 [Cookie] per 2 hours at 1 rank, and that time scale is reduced per rank of [The Cookie Jar]. When the player has no more [Cookies], he no longer has access to the powers within [The Cookie Jar Array]



Example: Primary is a mecha-suit Hero with a Power suit container and 10 ranks in [The Cookie Jar]. His standard power is a blast. Every round, he may fire the blast with no cost in [Cookies], as it is simply 2pp per rank. While fighting his nemesis Ctrl-Alt-Del, He switches to a second power within the array, a Disintegration beam to help chew through the Villians plasma armor. The Plasma Beam cost 4pp/rank, and costs him 2 cookies. On the villain's turn, however, He launches homing missiles at Primary. Primary decides to use another power from [The Cookie Jar Array], a deflector shield. This power costs him 1 cookie, granting him impervious armor and a boost to his Defense rank.

On the start of Primary's turn, he gains 1 [cookie] (Due to having 10 ranks in [The Cookie Jar]). At this rate, he's going to run out of [Cookies] to keep the fight going!



Extras
Innate : The source of your cookies are not something someone can turn off; GM's should use discretion when allowing this extra, and it should only be allowed when it is something that truly cannot be taken away from the character (Like an elephant's size). +1 per rank

Feature : If you gain cookies through some other means that are not directly controlled by the character (Such as deflecting attacks, or getting critical hits, or when using extraordinary effort), That is a feature. +1 Flat (Rare or very occasional trigger) +2 Flat (Common Trigger)

Power Unleashed : This Extra is applied to the power in the array. This can only be used on instantaneous powers. The Rank of the power is increased by 2, even if it exceeds PL limits. It may be applied as many times as you would like, but each time it will increase the cookies necessary to invoke the power by at least 1, even if other flaws are placed on the power. For example; a strike may have two instances of Power Unleashed placed on it (Increasing it to 5pp per rank), but have the Action flaw applied twice and Distracting. At 10 ranks of [The Cookie Jar], this would be a rank 14 Strike that took a full round and leaves the user distracted for 2pp per rank. The Power would still cost 2 cookies to use (Due to Power Unleashed), but not the 4 it would cost without the flaws applied. +2 per Rank per application.

Affects others : This Extra is applied to the power in the array. When you spend [cookies] for powers in the array, you can affect others. This would be something like a Magician casting a magical ward on himself or his allies. If these [cookies] are only spendable on other characters, the costs cancel each other out (+1 per rank for Affects Others, -1 per rank for Limited: Only Affects Others). The Range of this power is Touch. +0 per Rank (Only affects others), +1 per rank

Range : Requires Affects Others. For each rank of Affects others, the range you can spend cookies on other characters goes up, from Close to Ranged, to Perception. Perception Range abilities don't need to roll to hit their target (But the target must be seen without the Indirect Extra). +1 per Rank (Ranged), +2 per Rank (Perception).

Variable : If you have multiple instances of [The Cookie Jar], the [Cookies] received from one power may not be the same as the other, Normally. Each of [The Cookie Jar] [Cookies] are independent and cannot be used to activate each other's arrays. This Extra allows you to choose, when the cookie is regenerated, what kind of Cookie it is. These Cookies can't be shared between each other freely (See the Unified, below). If your [Cookies] can ONLY be spent on another Cookie Jar's Powers, that is the Off Sync Flaw (See Off Sync in Flaws). +1 per Rank



Example : Detainer is a PL 12 Super Villain with Martial Arts powers and Magic. He is renown for using them in conjunction; He has two of [The Cookie Jars] Qua-si Martial Arts (Rank 7) and Spirit Arcana (Rank 10) which has the Variable Extra. Every round, Detainer receives 1 [Cookie] from Spirit Arcana, and every 10 rounds, he receives 1 [cookie] from Qua-si Martial Arts. Detainer can choose whether or not the [Cookies] received from Spirit Arcanas [Cookie] regeneration is a Spirit Arcana [Cookie], or a Qua-si Martial Arts [Cookie]. If Detainer uses or looses all of his Qua-si Martial Arts [Cookies], as normal, all his Qua-si Martial Arts powers are lost and inert until the cookie regenerates from Qua-Si Martial Arts (at 1 per Every 10 rounds), or he uses Spirit Arcana to restore a [Cookie] to The Qua-si Martial Arts [The Cookie Jar].



Unified : Your [Cookie Jar] powers all stem from the same resource. Perhaps mastery of multiple forms of martial arts, various combat modules working in tandem, or an alien hive-mind operating in tandem, the [cookies] of your [cookie jars] are all functionally identical. The regeneration of your cookies do not stack; just use the highest regeneration rank.




Flaws

Limited (Doesn't provide [Cookie] regeneration) : Ranks of [The Cookie Jar] with this flaw don't reduce the amount of time it takes for you to get new cookies back. 12 ranks of The Cookie Jar with 4 ranks of this flaw would only provide 8 ranks of cookie regeneration. -1 per Rank.

Limited (Regeneration Conditions) : [The Cookie Jar] only regenerates [Cookies] under specific conditions. This could be when in direct sunlight, moonlight, at base, when out of combat, etc. -1 per 2 ranks.

Limited (Doesn't provide new powers in the array) : When applied as a partial flaw, each Rank of [The Cookie Jar] with this limitation doesn't provide a new power for [The Cookie Jar Array]. -1 per rank

Limited (Doesn't add to [Cookie] total) : When applied as a partial flaw, each rank of [The Cookie Jar] with this limitation doesn't add to the maximum amount of cookies you can have at a time. -1 per rank

Limited (Doesn't add to the Power's Rank) : When applied as a partial flaw, each rank of [The Cookie Jar] with this limitation doesn't add to the base power rank of a power within the Array. -3 per rank

Removable : Your [Cookie Jar Array] can be removed from you. This flaw is separated into two different kinds; Removable and Easily Removable. A Removable power can only be removed when you are Stunned and Defenseless, and cannot be removed during Action Time. An Easily Removed power can be nullified with a disarm or grab action. -1 per rank (Removable), -2 per rank (Easily removable)

Activation : Normally, an inert power can be activated as a reaction. This can be done on anyone's turn as long as a player is conscious and able to act. With the Activation Flaw, this becomes a Free Action and can only be done on your turn. Applied twice, it requires a move action. Applied three times, it becomes a Standard Action. -1 per rank per application

Off Sync : The Cookies you gain from [The Cookie Jar] are not usable for it's own [Cookie Array]. If you have 2 or more [Cookie Jars], they can feed into each other normally, but natively they can't be used on each other. This means that if one cookie jar is nullified or boosted, the other is not. (Note: You still regenerate cookies even if you are out of the appropriate cookies). -2 per rank



Example: Sarah wants to play a Hero with Moon and Sun themed powers that are in balance of each other, so she creates Solarias. Solarias has two [Cookie Jars] Rank 10, both with limited [cookie] regeneration, and Off Sync. Her first Cookie Jar is The Sunwell ([The Cookie Jar] Rank 10, Limited Cookie Regeneration (Only in the Day), Off Sync [Moonwell Cookies])), and the Second Cookie jar is The Moonwell ([The Cookie Jar] Rank 10, Limited Cookie Regeneration (Only at Night), Off Sync [Sunwell Cookies])).

She fills each array with appropriately themed powers; Darkness, healing, flight and postcognition, mind reading, sleep and others for the Moonwell, and Blasts, leaping, protection, deflection, dazzles, regeneration and others for the sunwell. In play, Sarah has to balance the dark with the light; the more daylight she has, the more darkness powers she has to work with and vice versa. Her two different cookie jars play off of each other to create a character based on balancing the light and dark.



Fades : With each activation of a power in [The Cookie Jar Array], [The Cookie Jar] looses one rank. A 'Faded' power can be refreshed in some manner, as approved by the GM. It typically should take longer then an hour and be done outside of combat. You may be allowed to use a hero point to recover the effects instantly. -1 per rank

Side Effect : Using the [Cookies] from this [Cookie Jar] has consequences! When spending cookies, you suffer an effect as determined by you and your GM (Typically Strike, Affliction or Weaken). Alternatively, you could suffer a complication without receiving a hero point in return. -2 per Rank



So, that is the rough draft; the primordial form of the system. It's clunky, its definitely not elegant, but it's functional. This keeps all the powers and such in one easy to find location and covers a blanket area of powers into a singular form. But just like Containers went away in favor of Devices, Complications and Alternate Arrays, I'm going to re-imagine this as a new set of powers, extras and so forth. It's essentially an additional system to be amended into the base game itself for rounds to be used as a resource.



The Cookie Jar, v2.0
Or how to lose powers with Style!
Sounds like Fun...
-Rocket, Sucker Punch



[Cookie Jar] - General Power
Action: none Range: Personal
Duration: Permanent Cost: 2pp/rank



[Cookie Jar] is a power that allows you to collect portions of energy, power or some resource to fuel other powers you have with, called cookies. For each rank of [Cookie Jar], you can keep 1 [cookie] for use. If you would gain more [Cookies] then you have ranks in [Cookie Jar], they are simply ignored. So, if you had 4 ranks of cookie jar, and were to gain a 5th cookie, you would simply not collect it. Your [Cookie] collection can be refreshed, as determined by you and your GM, or with the [Cookie Regeneration] power. Refreshing your cookies should be done out of combat and take at least one hour. As with any cookie related power, they type of cookies stored must be specified.

Extras:
Trait Dependent : The number of Cookies you can have is limited by your levels in Cookie Jar and whichever Attribute you tie it to. So, if you chose Strength as your attribute, you would add your Strength and your ranks in Cookie Jar together. If your strength was reduced, you would lose extra, unspent cookies. If your Strength was increased, you would gain cookies equal to that amount and increase your maximum. +0 per rank

Variable : The cookies you can store and use are variable. With a single application, this should be a range of similar cookies (Fire, heat and Radiation energy, for example). with two applications of this extra, you can choose a wide selection of cookies (Electrical, Nuclear, and Fire Energy for example). Note that cookies costs are dependent on the power, not the cookie spent on them. +1 flat, per application

Conversion : if you gain cookies with a Descriptor you can't store, you can convert them into the descriptor you can store. For each application of this Extra, you can convert a similar cookie Descriptor into your specified cookie Descriptor (Example, Fire into Heat cookies). With two applications, you can convert a wide range of cookie descriptors into your cookie type (Electrical into Nuclear, for example). +2 per Rank (Conversion), +3 per rank (Wide Conversion).

Flaws:
Fades : Whenever you spend cookies, you lose a rank in this power. Recovery of the rank can be set by you and your GM, but should be out of combat and take at least 1 hour's worth of time. -1 per rank

Acquired : Perhaps you are a vampire, and need to drink blood to acquire cookies, or you have to build up a charge or can't maintain your cookies for whatever reason. With this flaw, you are assumed to have no cookies at the start of combat and can only gain them while in combat rounds. -1 per rank

Limited : Your total amount of cookies is limited. For example, only while you are in sunlight, or while you are badly hurt. You only gain cookies under these conditions. -1 per rank

Removable : Your [Cookie Jar] can be removed from you. This flaw is separated into two different kinds; Removable and Easily Removable. A Removable power can only be removed when you are Stunned and Defenseless, and cannot be removed during Action Time. An Easily Removed power can be nullified with a disarm or grab action. -1 per rank (Removable), -2 per rank (Easily removable)

Activation : Normally, an inert power can be activated as a reaction. This can be done on anyone's turn as long as a player is conscious and able to act. With the Activation Flaw, this becomes a Free Action and can only be done on your turn. Applied twice, it requires a move action. Applied three times, it becomes a Standard Action. -1 per rank per application

Side Effect : Using the [Cookies] from this [Cookie Jar] has consequences! When spending cookies, you suffer an effect as determined by you and your GM (Typically Strike, Affliction or Weaken). Alternatively, you could suffer a complication without receiving a hero point in return. -2 per Rank

Unified : The maximum Cookies you can have of any descriptor is limited by this power. -1 per rank

Uncontrolled : The Descriptors of your cookies are not under your control. For example, a druid-like hero who gains Cookies based on his environment can't choose what kind of cookies he pulls from the land he is standing on. Note; The variable extra is not required for this flaw, the descriptor of your cookies are changing based on something you aren't in control of. -1 per rank




Cookie Regeneration - General
Action : None Range : Personal
Duration : Permanent Cost : 1 per Rank


Over time, you gain cookies back without effort. For each rank in this power, you recover 1 Cookie per minute. As with any cookie power, the type of cookie must be specified. The maximum you can have at any one time is determined by your Cookie Jar. These Cookies may be used to fuel powers. If you have multiple instances of Cookie Regeneration, they stack (assuming they are all for the same Cookie Descriptor).

Extras:
Variable : You can change what kind of cookies you are gaining over time. With one application, you can choose similar cookie types (Celestial, Lunar, Stellar for example) and choose 1 whenever you are gaining cookies. With 2 applications, you can choose a wide range of similar cookies (Celestial, Alien or Divine for example) and gain cookies with those descriptors. Note that you have to have an appropriate cookie jar to keep these Cookies, as normal. +1 flat per application



Flaws:
Cookie Cost : You can spend cookies to get more cookies! With this flaw, you can activate your cookie regeneration with a cookie as a reaction. -1 per rank

Limited : You only regenerate cookies under specific conditions. For example, in sunlight, fire or in space. -1 per rank

Activation : you have to take some action to regain your cookies (Like reload a magazine from a weapon, or change out a power core). With one application it is a free action, 2 is a move action, 3 is a standard action, and 4 is a full round action. -1 per rank, per application.






Cookie Advantages



Cookie Array - A Cookie Array is similar to a standard Power Array. It is applied to a power, which is called the base power. From there, the player creates and chooses a new power which can exceed the base power's PP cost for no additional purchasing. However, for every 1 per rank over the Base Power's cost will require 1 cookie to activate. If the power does not cost more then 1 pp per rank, it still requires 1 cookie to activate. Unlike a Power Array, this activation can be done as a reaction, and both or all powers in the array can be active simultaneously (Assuming the character has adequate cookies to keep them all active). At the start of the players turn, he must spend cookies to upkeep his active powers. If he chooses not to upkeep them, they fade as though he had lost concentration on them. He can reactivate them as normal with the appropriate cookie cost. Like with all cookie related effects, the cookie descriptor must be specified.

Cookie Benefit - You may gain a cookie under specific circumstances (Such as getting a critical hit or by getting hit by an kind of attack). This is useful for designs that are supposed to draw their cookies from specific circumstances rather then coming from over time.



Cookie Related Extras/Flaws




Unleashed Power - This Extra can only be applied to a power in a Cookie Array. This Extra may only be applied to an instant effect. This Effect must be at the highest power level available. This extra increase the maximum Rank in the power by 2. For each application of this Extra, the minimum cookie cost has to be increased by 1. (Example; if a cookie array blast has two applications of Unleashed power and -4 per rank in flaws, the inert power still costs 3 cookies to activate; 1 for the cookie array power itself and 2 for the Unleashed Power extras) +2 per rank

Cookie Variable - You may choose to spend a cookie to change this power's descriptor to match the cookie you've spent on it. So if you had a Lighting Cookie, you could spend it on this attack to give the attack a lightning Descriptor. If the power requires you to spend a cookie on it to determain the descriptor but still costs a cookie, this is an uncontrolled flaw. +0 per Rank.

Cookie Accumilation - This advantage can only be applied to attack Powers. This allows you to gain a cookie upon successful hit or failed save. If this power requires a cookie to use, you can not gain cookies of the same descriptor, without an additional rank of this advantage. It's possible to gain multiple cookies this way, each costing 1 additional advantage (For an off sync cookie) or 2 ranks (For the same cookie). 1 Flat

Cookie Leech - This extra can only be applied to an attack power. On a successful hit or failed save from this attack, you gain 1 of your opponents cookies. This Extra may be applied multiple times. The target decides which cookies he gives up. If the target does not have Cookies, you do not gain anything. Cookies keep their descriptor when you acquire them from an opponent. +1 per rank, per application.





Case Studies
How this can be used
to create differring character builds





Saitama -One Punch Man

Shoto-Todoroki (AKA "Origin") Boku No Hero Academia

Goku - Dragon Ball

Superman - DC Comics

Bruce Banner (AKA The Incredible Hulk) - Marvel Comics





(I'll be back, with the earlier version done and start working on the sleeker design with multiple powers working with the same element. Following that, I'll go over some case studies to show popular characters with this build to take into account some of the extraordinary things they do that M&M has issues depicting. Thanks for Reading!)

Grod_The_Giant
2018-12-11, 07:39 AM
I'm a bit concerned about putting an attrition-based resource in the game, especially if it's designed to replace arrays (aka "the only reason you can do more than one thing with your power"). Why not a special modifier, instead?

Super Move (-2 pp/rank): The modified power receives a +2 circumstance bonus to effect rank, but may only be used once per session. If you spend a hero point or extra effort, it receives a +5 circumstance bonus instead.

noob
2018-12-11, 05:51 PM
The cookie jar power is basically the variable power with a bunch of limitations.
And that is less efficient than variable.
So unless you banned variable entirely cookie jar is not an appropriate power.
Oh sorry I did not see the cookies allowed to go over 2pp per rank.
At that point you could just say that you are limited in array size in function of your pl instead of creating that power.


Also nothing prevents right now to get more ranks than needed on cookie jar for getting high regeneration and since it is exponential it can get quite absurd fast.
So get an insanely high rank in a cookie jar with the variable modifier(and the limited: can not be used to harm flaw) then get your pl in rank in another cookie jar and you can refill the second jar in cookies and/or access very high level powers with your first jar and decide "today I am going to use sight rank 40 and spot the opponent that is flying in a space ship toward the earth (that we knew the existence off because plot)".

As for finisher moves usable a limited number of times you can try "TRIGGERED In dire need of a finisher move" on an offense power with increased critical and use luck on it(possibly limit your luck power to be used only on similar powers) and then it will recharge only between episodes but striking twice in a turn is really efficient.
Or you can use the famous "It is totally under pl cap" damage power with increased critical and of rank 1000 but with -40000 to the attack roll and the homing 1000 modifier and the quirk "can hit the opponent only if it is close enough for him to hear you scream the name of your finisher move and receive a punch from you(you also need to be in a state where you can do the described actions)" and then use it at the start of the battle and fluff it as you using a finisher move at the end of the battle.

Son of A Lich!
2018-12-12, 02:35 PM
I'm a bit concerned about putting an attrition-based resource in the game, especially if it's designed to replace arrays (aka "the only reason you can do more than one thing with your power"). Why not a special modifier, instead?

Super Move (-2 pp/rank): The modified power receives a +2 circumstance bonus to effect rank, but may only be used once per session. If you spend a hero point or extra effort, it receives a +5 circumstance bonus instead.

That does work, and I've used similar variations in the past. I'm pretty sure that Hero High has a 'Holding Back' complication/flaw that allows this sort of thing, but I'm looking for something that better replicates tactical analysis of "The Clock" for longer, bigger battles.

The big thing for me is modeling the attrition of battle and keeping a time clock on any given fight that limits the players options as the fight goes on. This gives an extra, interesting dimension to the fight that can be manipulated by the players and villains.

So, a hero may have a cookie jar that models his Ki, and a villain could have a power that drains Ki and uses it for his power instead. Or a hero can literally go Super Sayian and boost their own Cookie Regeneration and have powers that need more cookies to use; but at the cost of needing more cookies to keep it up and active, allowing them to use their turns in combat as a resource to consider in the battle.

As the game stands now, the big clock on everyone's head is how many chips they've taken and how far before a move will hurt them.


The cookie jar power is basically the variable power with a bunch of limitations.
And that is less efficient than variable.
So unless you banned variable entirely cookie jar is not an appropriate power.
Oh sorry I did not see the cookies allowed to go over 2pp per rank.
At that point you could just say that you are limited in array size in function of your pl instead of creating that power.


Also nothing prevents right now to get more ranks than needed on cookie jar for getting high regeneration and since it is exponential it can get quite absurd fast.
So get an insanely high rank in a cookie jar with the variable modifier(and the limited: can not be used to harm flaw) then get your pl in rank in another cookie jar and you can refill the second jar in cookies and/or access very high level powers with your first jar and decide "today I am going to use sight rank 40 and spot the opponent that is flying in a space ship toward the earth (that we knew the existence off because plot)".

As for finisher moves usable a limited number of times you can try "TRIGGERED In dire need of a finisher move" on an offense power with increased critical and use luck on it(possibly limit your luck power to be used only on similar powers) and then it will recharge only between episodes but striking twice in a turn is really efficient.
Or you can use the famous "It is totally under pl cap" damage power with increased critical and of rank 1000 but with -40000 to the attack roll and the homing 1000 modifier and the quirk "can hit the opponent only if it is close enough for him to hear you scream the name of your finisher move and receive a punch from you(you also need to be in a state where you can do the described actions)" and then use it at the start of the battle and fluff it as you using a finisher move at the end of the battle.

Well, GM's exist for a reason, and with any point buy system, you are going to have to review your player's builds.

It is perfectly legal under the current M&M rules to make an infamous "Bathroom Psychic" and kill anyone in existence you can perceive with a PL10 character... That doesn't mean it's flying at my table, however. That doesn't mean that Ex. Sense (Sight) Rank 100, is broken and Ex. Sense needs to be banned, it means that GMs should be cautious with allowing players to have sight based powers that don't allow saves and extraordinary senses.

The refined second draft of this power is going to be separate powers; one for the base of the array, one for the cookie regeneration and the AP equivalent advantage for adding to the array. With each advantage, you'd be able to tack on a new power that cost a cookie for each pp/rank above 2 that it is built off of.

I want to put a max on cookies you can have at one time in the refined version, but I'm not sure how to work it in fluidly. As it stands right now, the option is to key it off an attribute or make a separate attribute as a power.

This has seen tabletop play, specifically for a Goku-esque build. It worked pretty well; The player was able to fire off Ki Blasts and use homing Kamahama's without overshadowing the rest of the group, and had to manage his defense reactions. In the event of a big bad, he could go super sayian, pump up his cookie regeneration, and had to manage powerful attacks when he didn't have to worry about defending himself.

I think it could also work great for a Hulk build, that requires keeping his Anger up (Cookie regeneration with flaws of attacking, Partial Flaws of Damaging, Partial flaws of KOing, Partial flaws of taking damage); This would be a character that is naturally built like a tank and could choose to take a gamble and activate leaping to get into combat and hope to get attacked while hoping to land a hit in. If both happen, he gets 4 cookies to play with next turn, and could activate Regeneration to help with the damage he had to take.



But thank you both for the input! I'll continue fleshing it out more in a bit here.

Grod_The_Giant
2018-12-12, 02:48 PM
The big thing for me is modeling the attrition of battle and keeping a time clock on any given fight that limits the players options as the fight goes on. This gives an extra, interesting dimension to the fight that can be manipulated by the players and villains.
If that's the goal, I think you're going to need more than a single new power-- you're essentially fighting an uphill battle with the system itself, which is heavily weighted towards at-will abilities, and you'll have to tinker with the fundamental rules of how powers work. On the other hand, if you're just looking for an unlockable super-move system, I feel like there are much better ways of doing so.

The first thing to settle, I think, is which way you want the clock to tick. Do you want a death spiral, where players run out of juice over the course of a fight, or do you want finishing moves, where the stakes get higher the longer things go on?

Son of A Lich!
2018-12-12, 03:26 PM
If that's the goal, I think you're going to need more than a single new power-- you're essentially fighting an uphill battle with the system itself, which is heavily weighted towards at-will abilities, and you'll have to tinker with the fundamental rules of how powers work. On the other hand, if you're just looking for an unlockable super-move system, I feel like there are much better ways of doing so.

The first thing to settle, I think, is which way you want the clock to tick. Do you want a death spiral, where players run out of juice over the course of a fight, or do you want finishing moves, where the stakes get higher the longer things go on?

Right, that's why I'm allowing variability in the design.

Whether or not the player wants more strength as fight continues (The Hulk), or less options as the fight drags on (Goku). For more strength, high cookie regeneration, low starting point, and expensive moves. For attrition, High starting, low regen, moderate moves.

The Bar is 1 cookie per turn; a bigger, harder hitting attack that costs 2 cookies means the player has to wait in between turns to pull it off OR hold on to them for an even bigger attack.

From my experience at the table with The Cookie Jar, The Player was quick to start using his powers early, but that waned until later into the fight where he was saving up for big hits (When they mean more with chip damage).

I think this is a pretty good bar... He had means to get more cookies faster (His "Super Sayian" alternate form had 2 ranks in Cookie Regeneration, bringing him up to 4 per round) and granted him more out-of-turn defenses (An impervious protection power and immunity (Restrained), or a higher parry, which ever he chose), while he worked up the Cookies for his Dragon Punch.

I had a Villain that could steal cookies from others (Think an Android from DBZ, if you are familiar), and that put the clock way out of favor for the player. He didn't have means to regenerate cookies and defend himself and pull off big punches like he wanted to; but it was fluffy and it worked well. I had a spider man clone, a psychic and a paragon as the other team mates (who did NOT use the cookie jar), who remained linear and constant through the fight (Albeit more damage as time went on). The Leeching effect did help the Villain move into a better position, but the fight turned like a dime when "Goku" decided to teleport away.

Normally, I would say that is a bad experience for a fight (For a player to feel like there build is inadequate and decide to just leave), but...

Josh didn't leave because he was frustrated, he left because it was a tactical move on his side. He got out of the leeching area of effect on the villain, and the villain didn't have the cookie regeneration to keep her defenses up.

Now, that wasn't elegant by any means. That's not what I wanted to have happen in the fight (The villain was literally designed to test out 'Goku's' abilities), But I learned and that's whats important.

When I get this all set up and done, I'm planning on making a PbP game with the cookie jar available so that players can test it out for themselves. Just simple combats with various character builds to see where it gets out of hand and what things to look out for.

noob
2018-12-12, 04:20 PM
Right, that's why I'm allowing variability in the design.

Whether or not the player wants more strength as fight continues (The Hulk), or less options as the fight drags on (Goku). For more strength, high cookie regeneration, low starting point, and expensive moves. For attrition, High starting, low regen, moderate moves.

The Bar is 1 cookie per turn; a bigger, harder hitting attack that costs 2 cookies means the player has to wait in between turns to pull it off OR hold on to them for an even bigger attack.

From my experience at the table with The Cookie Jar, The Player was quick to start using his powers early, but that waned until later into the fight where he was saving up for big hits (When they mean more with chip damage).

I think this is a pretty good bar... He had means to get more cookies faster (His "Super Sayian" alternate form had 2 ranks in Cookie Regeneration, bringing him up to 4 per round) and granted him more out-of-turn defenses (An impervious protection power and immunity (Restrained), or a higher parry, which ever he chose), while he worked up the Cookies for his Dragon Punch.

I had a Villain that could steal cookies from others (Think an Android from DBZ, if you are familiar), and that put the clock way out of favor for the player. He didn't have means to regenerate cookies and defend himself and pull off big punches like he wanted to; but it was fluffy and it worked well. I had a spider man clone, a psychic and a paragon as the other team mates (who did NOT use the cookie jar), who remained linear and constant through the fight (Albeit more damage as time went on). The Leeching effect did help the Villain move into a better position, but the fight turned like a dime when "Goku" decided to teleport away.

Normally, I would say that is a bad experience for a fight (For a player to feel like there build is inadequate and decide to just leave), but...

Josh didn't leave because he was frustrated, he left because it was a tactical move on his side. He got out of the leeching area of effect on the villain, and the villain didn't have the cookie regeneration to keep her defenses up.

Now, that wasn't elegant by any means. That's not what I wanted to have happen in the fight (The villain was literally designed to test out 'Goku's' abilities), But I learned and that's whats important.

When I get this all set up and done, I'm planning on making a PbP game with the cookie jar available so that players can test it out for themselves. Just simple combats with various character builds to see where it gets out of hand and what things to look out for.

Is there is an option to eat the cookies?

Son of A Lich!
2018-12-12, 04:49 PM
You can't have your cookies and eat'm Too!

noob
2018-12-12, 05:36 PM
You can't have your cookies and eat'm Too!

So I can not spend my cookies by eating them.
It is so disappointing.
I guess I need to play a character without cookie jars that have the create effect with the descriptor cookie as well as the Proportional and permanent flaws(I do not want the cookies I eat to stop existing when I stop sustaining them and I do not want my cookies to be hard as rock) and the innate(so that I can not die from matter loss when someone nullify the cookies that became my flesh),precise(I want them to have the shape I want even on small scales) and subtle(so that they look real) extras
Wow making actual cookies with powers is really hard.

Grod_The_Giant
2018-12-12, 07:44 PM
What? No, you absolutely want the cookies to be Sustained. That way you can stop concentrating on them as soon as you swallow them. All the taste, none of the calories!

Son of A Lich!
2018-12-12, 07:48 PM
What? No, you absolutely want the cookies to be Sustained. That way you can stop concentrating on them as soon as you swallow them. All the taste, none of the calories!

No calories? What is this, Diet Eldritch Cookies from beyond the mortal folds!?