How would you make Ganondorf?

[jaappleton]

I haven't been playing a ton of Smash Bros or anything. >_>

I know its tough to say, 'what iteration?' because some are more magically inclined than others.

But just the general overall feel, how would you do it?

I’m thinking maybe.... Bladelock? He’s also pretty good with punches and kicks, at least in Smash, so.... Kensei is a possibility (although I personally hate Kensei).

[Unoriginal]

I haven't been playing a ton of Smash Bros or anything. >_>

I know its tough to say, 'what iteration?' because some are more magically inclined than others.

But just the general overall feel, how would you do it?

Cavalier Figher/Fiend Bladelock with the Criminal Background.

One thing to remember is that Ganondorf is the same character in all the games. He just gets transformed/incorrectly resurrected/acquires other items depending on the game. Other than that his moveset stays pretty similar: energy blasts and impressive swordplay (sometime with dual-wielding), the occasional flight and transformations, and puppeetering weaker bosses.

You could also go for Tomelock (he DOES like to steal magic), then get Polymorph into Giant Ape for the "Demon Boar Ganon" form.

Sun Soul Monk (maybe with Dragon Sorcerer) if you're going for the Smash Bros. version

[elyktsorb]

Well Ganondorf is a Gerudo, gifted with magical power.

The easiest thing to imagine him as is a Fighter/Warlock. (I mean, he's supposed to be a great swordsman)

I go with this because despite being a Gerudo, he's not really known for being a thief or a Rogue.

That and most of his power is Granted to him by the Triforce of Power, but he's free to abuse it as he wishes, and this fits pretty thematically with Warlock patrons.

[Hruken]

My first thoughts were of hexblades and eldritch knights, to go for the magic and sword thing he has going on. But I'd probably go with a conquest paladin.

Heavy armor, greatsword (or two longswords if the hyrule warriors version is more your fancy), and smite spells would cover most of the inspiration. That and the fear features seem right up his alley.

[Unoriginal]

My first thoughts were of hexblades and eldritch knights, to go for the magic and sword thing he has going on. But I'd probably go with a conquest paladin.

Heavy armor, greatsword (or two longswords if the hyrule warriors version is more your fancy), and smite spells would cover most of the inspiration. That and the fear features seem right up his alley.

Conquest Paladin would fit him well, yes. Though he's more of a DEXadin than an heavy armor user.

Still, it would fit the concept.

[MThurston]

Gandalf isn't a player character. He would have legendary actions. He would also have a huge amount of HPs. Like 100,000 or more.

[jaappleton]

Gandalf isn't a player character. He would have legendary actions. He would also have a huge amount of HPs. Like 100,000 or more.

Though a Wizard arrives precisely when he means to, we’re talking the Zelda villain.

[elyktsorb]

TBF if we were to put Ganondorf into a DnD setting he would likely have legendary actions and such.

I mean, the guy is only weak to (in the context of his own game) Holy Light Magic. Which isn't even a weakness persay, it's more like he resists most regular damage and is only normally effected by holy weapons.

[Unoriginal]

I thought we were discussing an expy of Ganondorf that's a player character, not a straight up "put the games' final boss into DnD".

[jaappleton]

I thought we were discussing an expy of Ganondorf that's a player character, not a straight up "put the games' final boss into DnD".

That’s what I’m going for, yes.

Someone said he wouldn’t fit as a Rogue despite being Garudo, but Str-based Rogue should certainly be applicable, I think.

[elyktsorb]

I assume we are. But making a player character out of Ganondorf, is going to seem, far flung from the actual character as he is in game. Because most of what makes Ganondorf the world conquering villain he is comes from the fact that he is the end game boss of his games.

But yeah, it really depends on the incarnation of Ganondorf you want to go with.

OoT has him as a pretty competent spell caster first, fighter second.

Twilight Princess Portrays him more as a fighter first, spell caster second.

Wind Waker has him pretty much in between, giving him dual swords.

At most his armor consists of Studded Leather and his least amount is robes.

Ganondorf is also about manipulation and deceit, sowing discourse among people and nations

There's really no way to give yourself the Ganon transformation without it being some form of Polymorph.


I don't see Ganondorf as a Rogue for a few key reasons.
Firstly, he doesn't to anything Roguish, at best, his deceit and manipulation could warrant a one level dip for expertise in those skills.
Secondly, he doesn't fight like a Rogue, he's never been sneaky in combat, he always goes in full swing.

Also to note, I'm thinking more thematically than mechanically, though to that end Ganondorf is a good swordsman, he doesn't bother with sneak attacking people.

[Corran]

I want to say bard. Bards are very flexible, and assuming high levels, they offer enough flexibility to acceptably approximate various character concepts based on video game or movie characters.

At this point I should mention that I am only familiar with the N64 Zelda: ocarina of time version of Ganondorf (also, I have not delved into Zelda lore so I don't remember what a Gerudo is and stuff). So, from what little I remember...

Simulacrum, find steed and some liberal use of meld into stone (meld into painting?) might work well enough for that fight where Link fights the ghost version of Ganondorf that leaps from the paintings. A flight ability (probably the fly spell) and lightning bolts for the end fight (before fighting Ganon) perhaps? And something like shapechange turning into Ganon?

Not sure how many of these spells (or other appropriate spells that I missed) are inherently in the bard's spell list and thus how important it would be to have access to additional magical secrets, but I'd say that valor bard might be worth choosing, simply to grab the necessary (for fluff) weapon and armor proficiencies. Or if we really need additional magical secrets, then splashing a martial level or taking a feat could do the trick in having proficiency with the necessary equipment.

Plus, when you climb the stairs to reach the room where the final fight starts, Ganondorf is playing an organ. Bard! :smallbiggrin:

[Dienekes]

So the 'Dorf has done a lot of awesome things over his time.

He is a master of weaponry. Using a spear, trident, greatsword, longsword, cut and thrust sword, and dual wielding arming sword things. Basically whatever he wants.

He wears light and medium armor, depending on which game you're looking at.

He also has a lot of magic spells. Most notably a ball of dark energy he throws around. But also fireballs, induce sleep, move large chunks of earth/create earthquakes, go invisible, fly, survive as an ethereal spirit, self-buffs most blatantly in adding dark magic to his already potent strength and weapon skills, transform into monsters. And he can play the hell out of a grand organ.

If I were to build it. I'd go with Eldritch Knight Fighter/Pact of the Blade Archfey Warlock. But I'd try to see with my GM if I can tweak the spell list granted by Archfey. Try and squeeze polymorph in there somehow.

[Unoriginal]

Fighter/Fiend Tomelock honestly seems to account for nearly all of Ganondorf's capacities. He just has Imprisonment too (or however that spell that'd let him trap Zelda in a crystal is called).

I know it's going controversial, but I'll argue CON should be his worse stats. A key thing with Ganondoris that any time someone manages to strip him of his magical protections, he is beaten by people who are vastly inferior in power to him but who can keep going and going. Temporary HPs from Fiendlock would balance that out.

[jaappleton]

So the 'Dorf has done a lot of awesome things over his time.

He is a master of weaponry. Using a spear, trident, greatsword, longsword, cut and thrust sword, and dual wielding arming sword things. Basically whatever he wants.

He wears light and medium armor, depending on which game you're looking at.

He also has a lot of magic spells. Most notably a ball of dark energy he throws around. But also fireballs, induce sleep, move large chunks of earth/create earthquakes, go invisible, fly, survive as an ethereal spirit, self-buffs most blatantly in adding dark magic to his already potent strength and weapon skills, transform into monsters. And he can play the hell out of a grand organ.

If I were to build it. I'd go with Eldritch Knight Fighter/Pact of the Blade Archfey Warlock. But I'd try to see with my GM if I can tweak the spell list granted by Archfey. Try and squeeze polymorph in there somehow.

I love how you call him The Dorf. Its like calling David Hasselhoff 'The Hoff'.

I like your idea. Don't forget, though, that there's that invocation to use Polymorph. So a Warlock can get it.

[Rakoa]

I have considered this before, in the context of my favourite game, Ocarina of Time. It is likely that Ganondorf has other feats and accomplishments in other games that I am unaware of, but for Ocarina of Time, he has shown the following abilities:

Transformation into Boar Monster (Polymorph)
Can tame dangerous monsters (Dominate Beast/Monster)
Break magical seals (Dispel magic)
Resurrect the ancient dead (True res)
Permanently freeze people (Flesh to Stone - refluffed)
Fly (Fly)
Teleport (Teleport)
Open portal to other dimensions (Plane Shift)
Environmental illusions (Mirage arcana)
Clone himself (Simulacrum)
Can play the pipe organ (skill or background)

From this list, Wizard seems to check the most boxes, allowing Flesh to Stone and Simulacrum over Sorcerer, but not gaining the ability to ressurect even the long-since dead that we know Ganondorf is capable of. Further, Wizard sacrifices almost all of Ganondorf's ability to swordfight. Additionally, an Int focus doesn't fit him overly well.

Warlock, particularly the Hexblade, grants Ganondorf the ability to Polymorph (if we take that one invocation), cast Dominate Monster over Dominate Beast to attain the same effect, break magical seals with dispel magic, fly around, plane shift, and turn people into ice. The only thing he can't do is resurrect the dead (same as Wizard) or cast environmental illusions (which was just window dressing/dramatic effect for his boss fight, so no big deal). What really hurts is losing out on Simulacrum, so no Phantom Ganon. He can still Teleport if we use Dimension Door instead of the Teleport spell itself.

In exchange, he is now a Charisma focused, Breast-plate wearing, mess-you-up in melee or fly around above you raining death blasts kinda guy that can turn into a giant pig beast when he needs to. That's the Ganondorf I know.

For race, I would go with Goliath, because he is beastly huge and freakin' tough.

[jaappleton]

I have considered this before, in the context of my favourite game, Ocarina of Time. It is likely that Ganondorf has other feats and accomplishments in other games that I am unaware of, but for Ocarina of Time, he has shown the following abilities:

Transformation into Boar Monster (Polymorph)
Can tame dangerous monsters (Dominate Beast/Monster)
Break magical seals (Dispel magic)
Resurrect the ancient dead (True res)
Permanently freeze people (Flesh to Stone - refluffed)
Fly (Fly)
Teleport (Teleport)
Open portal to other dimensions (Plane Shift)
Environmental illusions (Mirage arcana)
Clone himself (Simulacrum)
Can play the pipe organ (skill or background)

From this list, Wizard seems to check the most boxes, allowing Flesh to Stone and Simulacrum over Sorcerer, but not gaining the ability to ressurect even the long-since dead that we know Ganondorf is capable of. Further, Wizard sacrifices almost all of Ganondorf's ability to swordfight. Additionally, an Int focus doesn't fit him overly well.

Warlock, particularly the Hexblade, grants Ganondorf the ability to Polymorph (if we take that one invocation), cast Dominate Monster over Dominate Beast to attain the same effect, break magical seals with dispel magic, fly around, plane shift, and turn people into ice. The only thing he can't do is resurrect the dead (same as Wizard) or cast environmental illusions (which was just window dressing/dramatic effect for his boss fight, so no big deal). What really hurts is losing out on Simulacrum, so no Phantom Ganon. He can still Teleport if we use Dimension Door instead of the Teleport spell itself.

In exchange, he is now a Charisma focused, Breast-plate wearing, mess-you-up in melee or fly around above you raining death blasts kinda guy that can turn into a giant pig beast when he needs to. That's the Ganondorf I know.

For race, I would go with Goliath, because he is beastly huge and freakin' tough.

I like it!

Though I must ask, how much did you consider going with Bladesinger for the Wizard? I know, its not ideal to have d6 HD, but it does provide many more defensive spell options to offset that.

[Unoriginal]

There is no indicator *he* created Phantom Ganon, anyway.

Or you could fluff the Specter buddy you get from Hexblade as Phantom Ganon.

[elyktsorb]

There is no indicator *he* created Phantom Ganon, anyway.

Or you could fluff the Specter buddy you get from Hexblade as Phantom Ganon.

Actually, the way it's worded in game, I think it's implied that he forced the Phantom to his will, or threatened it, given he states he was going to banish it, and I have no reason to believe he'd lie about something so trivial. I suppose in the same way he forced the 4 Poe spirits to keep guard of the rest of the Forest temple.

[Naanomi]

Hrm... Conquest Paladin/Divine Soul (malice reborn) is my first inclination. He isn’t a Hexblade to me, he is physically strong in a way a Hexblade doesn’t need to be; and in most incarnations just gets his power by birthright, not by pact

[Arcangel4774]

I think i agree with Naanomi. Conquest paladin/divine soul(evil). Race would be more difficult to narrow in on. Human seems a close bet, but i coukd also see a hobgoblin, orc, or half orc depending on iteration. High cha, str, and con are a must. Wisdom would undoubtedly be his dump stat.

Needs atleast to get paladin 8 and sorc 7.

[Dienekes]

Hrm... Conquest Paladin/Divine Soul (malice reborn) is my first inclination. He isn’t a Hexblade to me, he is physically strong in a way a Hexblade doesn’t need to be; and in most incarnations just gets his power by birthright, not by pact

This is definitely closer fluff. But, I'm not sure how mechanically true it will end up being.

Maybe I'm putting too much weight on Ocarina of Time. But a Ganondorf that can't spam evil energy bolts (eldritch blast) while flying around doesn't seem much like The Dorf to me.

Unless of course they can. I honestly have never seen a 5e Paladin played.

[Rakoa]

I like it!

Though I must ask, how much did you consider going with Bladesinger for the Wizard? I know, its not ideal to have d6 HD, but it does provide many more defensive spell options to offset that.

I considered it. First off, the Elf requirement threw me off. Yes, it can easily be handwaved way by a lenient DM, but it just isn't clean. After that, I think it works mechanically. You are a very powerful spellcaster that can hold his own in melee and still do all that other stuff. But doing it in light armor, having super-high intelligence, being restricted to a one-handed weapon....and of course, still being relatively squishy. From a fluff perspective, it didn't jive well with me.