Can i buy a golem?

[Dalor]

Hello

I'm 99% sure i can, but is there somewhere writen that i can?

Thank you

[Stelio Kontos]

What did your DM say when you asked them if you could buy a golem?

[Dalor]

What did your DM say when you asked them if you could buy a golem?

He said something like this: i don't think golens can be bought, because how does the control of the golem passes to other person? There are golens that have a form of control, but what about those who don't?

I told him: so why does the book have a market price?

And he said: to calculate the cost of the materials

The main problem is the logical roleplay, not gameplay mechanics

[KillianHawkeye]

He said something like this: i don't think golens can be bought, because how does the control of the golem passes to other person? There are golens that have a form of control, but what about those who don't?

This is the main problem

It's typically done by having the golem's creator make some unique object that a person can wear or hold, then ordering their golem to always obey whoever is wearing/holding that item. Just don't lose your trinket if you want to keep your golem.

[the_david]

Tell your DM that I'm disappointed in him. The correct answer is yes, you can buy a golem. The golem will attempt to kill you after 24 hours and then return to their creator, but you can buy a golem.

[Dalor]

Tell your DM that I'm disappointed in him. The correct answer is yes, you can buy a golem. The golem will attempt to kill you after 24 hours and then return to their creator, but you can buy a golem.

Is this serious? If it is, where is it?

[noob]

Tell your DM that I'm disappointed in him. The correct answer is yes, you can buy a golem. The golem will attempt to kill you after 24 hours and then return to their creator, but you can buy a golem.

That is a bad use of golems:
It is more efficient to sell the golem then have the golem spy your client for you and find where the gold of the client is then plunder the client and go back to you.


Is this serious? If it is, where is it?
The golem always obeys its creator.
If someone sells you a golem it is probably a fraud and the creator of the golem will probably give in an order such as "obey him for a day then report information" and then after a day ask his golem information and plans something to steal more money from you or just ask his golem to go back to his home.

[Caedes]

That is a bad use of golems:
It is more efficient to sell the golem then have the golem spy your client for you and find where the gold of the client is then plunder the client and go back to you.


The golem always obeys its creator.
If someone sells you a golem it is probably a fraud and the creator of the golem will probably give in an order such as "obey him for a day then report information" and then after a day ask his golem information and plans something to steal more money from you or just ask his golem to go back to his home.


Come on down to Slick Sam's Used Golem Depot. We have all Makes and Models! Home of the 1000 year Loyalty guarantee!






Warranty and loyalty guarantee invalid as soon as you leave the lot.

[Telonius]

Serious answer: In the Golem monster description, there are rules for transferring obedience of the golem. SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/golem.htm):


The golem’s creator can order the golem to obey the commands of another person (who might in turn place the golem under someone else’s control, and so on), but the golem’s creator can always resume control over his creation by commanding the golem to obey him alone.

Most golem "sales" would be more along the lines of a long-term lease.

If you want to craft one yourself (and don't have the Craft Construct feat), there are Golem Manuals (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#golemManual) that are purchase-able.

That said, it sounds like your DM really doesn't want to deal with the whole Golem angle. There are plenty of other shenanigans you can pull with 20,000-196,000gp (depending on the Golem type).

[Jack_Simth]

That is a bad use of golems:
It is more efficient to sell the golem then have the golem spy your client for you and find where the gold of the client is then plunder the client and go back to you.Most golems are mindless, and as a DM, I'd consider that a "complex order".


Most golem "sales" would be more along the lines of a long-term lease. Keep in mind, a golem can outlive it's creator. If the creator is in no position to give the golem orders (whether that's because of distance, death, or some other reason), then such master transfers are final.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Jack_Simth
If the creator is in no position to give the golem orders (whether that's because of distance, death, or some other reason), then such master transfers are final.

Which might make the golem-rental business somewhat hazardous to the creator. Why rent when you can own?

[Jack_Simth]

Which might make the golem-rental business somewhat hazardous to the creator. Why rent when you can own?
Yes. Renting requires that the owner trust the renter to not have the owner taken out of the picture. Selling requires that the buyer trust the seller to not attempt to reclaim the goods (and requires that the seller trust the buyer to not "make sure"). The golem trade is a business fraught with risks.

[tiercel]

I guess beyond the potential business mechanics of golemry, I’d be more concerned with whether I could find better ways to drop 90k-150k gold or so, especially the first time I stroll into combat with my shiny new stone/iron buddy and some jerk tags it with grease, glitterdust, etc.

[shaikujin]

You can ask your DM whether you can make 1 yourself.

Instead of buying it directly, you designate yourself as the creator, and you commission a spellcaster as an assistant to "help" you by supplying the prereqs, materials and if you want, the XP.

Magic item compendium says 2 or more characters can work together to create a magic item, with each supplying some of the prereqs. You supply at least 1 XP (so that you are contributing to the prereqs), the spell caster supplies the rest of the prereqs which you do not have.

You can even use Nybor's Psychic Imprint to have a somewhat added loyalty to you.

[Doctor Awkward]

He said something like this: i don't think golens can be bought, because how does the control of the golem passes to other person?"

The seller/creator says to the golem, "This person is now your owner. Obey every order they give you as if I was the one speaking it."

[noob]

The seller/creator says to the golem, "This person is now your owner. Obey every order they give you as if I was the one speaking it."

except there is a clause that allows the creator to always assume back control.

[Khedrac]

He said something like this: i don't think golens can be bought, because how does the control of the golem passes to other person? There are golens that have a form of control, but what about those who don't?

I told him: so why does the book have a market price?

And he said: to calculate the cost of the materials

The main problem is the logical roleplay, not gameplay mechanics
I think the book has a market price because that is how you buy a golem - you buy the book (which gives you the spells, the feat and the xp together with a CL boost) then you have to make the body (with a bonus from the book) - or buy one - and then enchant it yourself using the book.

[DarkSoul]

He said something like this: i don't think golens can be bought, because how does the control of the golem passes to other person? There are golens that have a form of control, but what about those who don't?The discussion was pretty much over right here. If he doesn't want you to buy a golem, no amount of "but the internet says...!" Is going to help you convince him. Personally, it has the opposite effect.

[Quertus]

The discussion was pretty much over right here. If he doesn't want you to buy a golem, no amount of "but the internet says...!" Is going to help you convince him. Personally, it has the opposite effect.

Rod of Construct Control?

Also, does, "but RAW says..." have the same effect on you?

[DarkSoul]

Rod of Construct Control?

Also, does, "but RAW says..." have the same effect on you?As a DM I have a reason for telling a player they can or can't do something with their character. The player may not be aware of the reason and in some cases I'm not willing to share that reason. If the player tries to argue with "but RAW says..." then yes it does have the same effect.

[noob]

As a DM I have a reason for telling a player they can or can't do something with their character. The player may not be aware of the reason and in some cases I'm not willing to share that reason. If the player tries to argue with "but RAW says..." then yes it does have the same effect.

are you the dm of that player?
what does not works against you can work against another dm.

[DarkSoul]

are you the dm of that player?
what does not works against you can work against another dm.You're right, what works for one DM won't necessarily work for another, but that's irrelevant in the context of this thread in general and my responses in specific.

[unseenmage]

You could commission a Golem and contribute as one of its creators, that could allow you to share command of it.

Also, look at the Arms and Equipment Guide for the Rod of Construct Control additionally the Warforged Domain can be found in the Eberron books somewhere. Both will allow you to steal control of Constructs, including Golems.

EDIT: Seems the Rod was already mentioned. I'll add that a Domain Drought from Magic Item Compendium will allow access to the Warforged Domain.

Alternatively, you can craft an Intelligent magic item whose sole purpose is to do as you say while overriding a golems orders.

The Greater Humanoid Essence spell from Races of Eberron can be used to negate any pesky immunity to mind affecting for the duration.
Effects of such should persist after GHE wears off because if changing type caused spells to effects to cease then GHE would itself immediately end as soon as it changed its target's type.

[Clistenes]

He said something like this: i don't think golens can be bought, because how does the control of the golem passes to other person? There are golens that have a form of control, but what about those who don't?

I told him: so why does the book have a market price?

And he said: to calculate the cost of the materials

The main problem is the logical roleplay, not gameplay mechanics

I think you should be able commission the creation of a golem so that he obeys you rather than the creator. You probably have to participate in some way in some steps of the process before activation.

The creator of the golem can also transfer its loyalty by ordering it to obey the buyer, but the creator could reverse it at any time by ordering the golem to stop taking order from the buyer... I don't think most buyers would like that...

And of course, you could just buy a book of golem creation wondrous item, and make your own golem...

[Quertus]

As a DM I have a reason for telling a player they can or can't do something with their character. The player may not be aware of the reason and in some cases I'm not willing to share that reason. If the player tries to argue with "but RAW says..." then yes it does have the same effect.

So, I'm all about "because reasons", about having things that deviate from (or appear to deviate from) the rules. In fact, I intentionally include such in my games. My players who game with me long enough know to point out when things deviate from RAW, and, when instead of responding with "oops" and a retcon, or a, "oh, did I forget to mention, it's different on this world", I instead respond with, "yeah, it does. This seems kinda odd to your character, too", or sometimes just a *eg*, they know that the game's afoot.

So, my question is, when these "changes" can stem from fun world-building, and be both cool features of the game and plot hooks in and of themselves, why would you instead take what feels like a more adversarial GM stance of making things harder on the player for investigating your reality? Why would you aim for GM horror story territory when you could work with your players to make this something that they look forward to?

Lastly, assuming that the OP got the gist of their GM's statement right, would you, with your style, obfuscate the fact that something else is going on behind the scenes, misdirecting the players with comments like, "i don't think golens can be bought, because how does the control of the golem passes to other person? There are golens that have a form of control, but what about those who don't? ... <Golems only have a sale price> to calculate the cost of the materials", or would you play it honest with them? Is the OP's GM's statement indicative of your style, or of a different style?

[DarkSoul]

So, my question is, when these "changes" can stem from fun world-building, and be both cool features of the game and plot hooks in and of themselves, why would you instead take what feels like a more adversarial GM stance of making things harder on the player for investigating your reality? Why would you aim for GM horror story territory when you could work with your players to make this something that they look forward to?I don't consider myself to have an adversarial attitude as a DM, nor do I think my players would call it that. For this discussion, the impression I get from the OP's first two posts is that they told their DM they wanted to buy a golem, to which the DM replied as described and essentially told the player no. OP seems to have a problem with this and appears to be looking for a way to say "I can buy one, it says so right here."


Lastly, assuming that the OP got the gist of their GM's statement right, would you, with your style, obfuscate the fact that something else is going on behind the scenes, misdirecting the players with comments like, "i don't think golens can be bought, because how does the control of the golem passes to other person? There are golens that have a form of control, but what about those who don't? ... <Golems only have a sale price> to calculate the cost of the materials", or would you play it honest with them? Is the OP's GM's statement indicative of your style, or of a different style?If I had a player ask me to buy a golem, I'd determine whether I wanted the character to have full-time access to the type of golem they're interested in. If so, I'd decide if they could commission one in their current location, or if they'd have to travel to another area to get it done. Once I decided where they could have one made, I'd let them know and leave it to them if they want to go talk to the crafter about costs and time required, because it will be very difficult to find someone willing to sell something like that; they're far more likely to be using it themselves. If they decide they want to find someone with a golem already created because they don't want to wait for it to be built, it will require a lot of investigation and negotiation to find said person and then talk them into giving up their creation (after all, they very likely created it for a reason).

[Quertus]

(after all, they very likely created it for a reason).

I agree with this.

Your best bet, IMO, is to find someone with a Rod of Construct Control, who believes that they have killed the owner/creator of the golem that they found in a dungeon.

[Jack_Simth]

If I had a player ask me to buy a golem, I'd determine whether I wanted the character to have full-time access to the type of golem they're interested in. If so, I'd decide if they could commission one in their current location, or if they'd have to travel to another area to get it done. Once I decided where they could have one made, I'd let them know and leave it to them if they want to go talk to the crafter about costs and time required, because it will be very difficult to find someone willing to sell something like that; they're far more likely to be using it themselves. If they decide they want to find someone with a golem already created because they don't want to wait for it to be built, it will require a lot of investigation and negotiation to find said person and then talk them into giving up their creation (after all, they very likely created it for a reason).
Do keep in mind: A golem doesn't level up. Sure, that CR-11 Stone Golem is useful... at 13th level when your WBL manages to cover the 90k market price. But it doesn't improve. By about 15th level or so, you'll be thinking of selling it off (assuming it hasn't been destroyed already).