I Heard You Liek Gish Tricks...

[TheMoxiousOne]

Hail, adventurers!

I was sitting here at work, staring into space, thinking of weird interactions I wanted to build a character on, and I think I've found one I want to do; I just need your help to do it! What I would like is a mix of a paladin (Need to be able to cast Find Greater Steed), and... Well, literally anything that can cast Enlarge/Reduce. The goal here is to be a mounted combatant, with the ability to fit into most/any adventure mounted, without having to humiliate the proud Barbarian by mounting them every time a fight breaks out- I'm looking at you, small-sized Cavaliers!

I am thinking of going Duergar, just to have it once per day (multiple if in the Underdark), and having more flexibility on multiclassing, but I feel my scope of knowledge of the game makes me a sad panda; I can't find anything that makes me confident it will work every time, every GM, using RAW.

Open to just about any weird or obtuse build; Like the idea of mounting a Pegasus and shrinking down to fit through the cave's tunnel, while still being able to fi(gh)t, and Enlarging in open fields to terrorize the enemies!

As always, any and all help is appreciated!

[Man_Over_Game]

Hail, adventurers!

I was sitting here at work, staring into space, thinking of weird interactions I wanted to build a character on, and I think I've found one I want to do; I just need your help to do it! What I would like is a mix of a paladin (Need to be able to cast Find Greater Steed), and... Well, literally anything that can cast Enlarge/Reduce. The goal here is to be a mounted combatant, with the ability to fit into most/any adventure mounted, without having to humiliate the proud Barbarian by mounting them every time a fight breaks out- I'm looking at you, small-sized Cavaliers!

I am thinking of going Duergar, just to have it once per day (multiple if in the Underdark), and having more flexibility on multiclassing, but I feel my scope of knowledge of the game makes me a sad panda; I can't find anything that makes me confident it will work every time, every GM, using RAW.

Open to just about any weird or obtuse build; Like the idea of mounting a Pegasus and shrinking down to fit through the cave's tunnel, while still being able to fi(gh)t, and Enlarging in open fields to terrorize the enemies!

As always, any and all help is appreciated!


I'm gonna say it before someone else does: Lore Bard.

Lore Bards are better at summoning mounts, since they can just steal the spells they need for it. Tack on Sharpshooter and a level into Fighter (or Ranger, or anything with martial weapons) for the Longbow, and just fly around, sniping people on your griffin at 400 feet away.

There's also nothing saying you can't ride a mount that's too large for you. So...yeah. Enlarge + Griffin for a *really* big bird dropping on your face.

You can read that as either a giant bird or a giant turd. Your call.

[Clone]

As mentioned Bard is probably your best bet. They get a whole bunch of fun toys to play with while you level up towards your goal of greater steed.
I'd instead go for a Valor Bard or Swords Bard if you intend to rain down attacks from the sky. Lore Bard will give you both Enlarge/ Reduce and Find steed by level 6, but you miss out on Extra attack which will require more levels before the build comes online.
By going Valor you still get Find Greater Steed and Enlarge/ Reduce by level 10, allowing you to grab two feats or ASI in the meantime and being a full bard otherwise.

As another option you could make a deal with the party moon druid to make them turn into a large beasty, but thats another conversation

[Malifice]

I'm gonna say it before someone else does: Lore Bard.

Lore Bards are better at summoning mounts, since they can just steal the spells they need for it.

At 10th level.

Which going by our recent thread, is around the same time most campaigns end.

[Man_Over_Game]

At 10th level.

Which going by our recent thread, is around the same time most campaigns end.

OP asked for Find Greater Steed, which a Paladin wouldn't get until level 13.

[Malifice]

OP asked for Find Greater Steed, which a Paladin wouldn't get until level 13.

OP really just wants a way to use Mounted Combat feat in dungeons, and suggests reduce spell as a way to pull it off.

[MagneticKitty]

How does your dm feel about revised ranger?
I'd take beast master revised ranger with a wolf or panther. They will fit about anywhere.. And a small race. Companion scales with you.
Make sure they're ok with eventually getting an item that makes your animals attacks magic or will be kinda pointless imo

[chando]

And that still can be acomplished by the reffered Lore Bard at level 6. You have Find Steed for your mount, it just doesn't fly yet.
Also, I'm not sure if its raw, but i beleive most DM's would let you swap a magical secret Find Steed for Find Greater Steed once you hit level 7 (or maybe at 8th so that you get to use you newly got Steed and it doesnt get replaced faster than a cellphone). Even if that isn't allowed (as its probably not RAI as it would raise utility of Magical Secrets, already pretty powerful) You can just swap Find Steed for some other 3rd level magical secret at 10th level when you get the greater version. Or play with two steeds if that's the game you are in.

[Vexacia]

find a Moon Druid player who loves sitting in Wild Shape (that's most Moon Druids) and is willing to play ball with unorthodox gameplay, then play a Cavalier Fighter and ride the Druid. you'll love the durable and reliable mount, while the Druid will love having a Cavalier's mount protections applying to their Wild Shape. Druid can fly as soon as level 8.

comes online at level two, faster than any other mount setup unless you start level 1 with a homebrewed amount of gold.

all the good Wild Shape forms are at least Large, so you can play a Medium size race with no worries.

between Wild Shape and Action Surge, you'll both love your short rests, and assuming you earn the admiration rather than ire of your party, you will have very little trouble convincing everyone to take a lot of them.

as a major bonus, neither of you will have bad builds when dismounted: you'll still be a powerhouse monoclass Fighter, they'll still be a powerhouse monoclass Druid. this is very unlike these bizarro alternative builds being lobbed at you.

this is by far the method most resistant to DM intervention - a DM would literally have to either rewrite RAW to prevent you from riding the Druid in every combat of the day or force your party constantly into areas a Large creature cannot squeeze through, both of which stop any other mount build too.

[TheMoxiousOne]

OP really just wants a way to use Mounted Combat feat in dungeons, and suggests reduce spell as a way to pull it off.

OP really wants Find Greater Steed, as it allows the mount to be affected by spells I cast that only target me; such as Enlarge/Reduce and Haste. Cast Enlarge on me, and it affects the mount; didn't know the feat did this, too.

EDIT: Worth noting, the whole point of the combo is to cast on myself and have it affect my mount, as well, per Find Greater Steed spell. There are no level requirements or restrictions aside from that.

[Theodoxus]

Good old Find Steed does that too.

Bard definitely feels more gish-y than Paladin for this... Revised BM Ranger feels less gish-y than even Paladin though...

So yeah, 6th level as Lore Bard or 10th as any other (Swords would be my choice, but I know a lot of people prefer the versatility of Valor's Bardic Inspiration).

[iTreeby]

It's not uncommon for a paladine /sorcerer to get 3 levels of sorcerer, such a character would be able to enlarge and reduce their mount. Unfortunately you can't share enlarge reduce with your mount because it doesn't have a range of self. A sensible DM should rule this as possible IMO.

A similar possibility is a beast master rangerm sorcerer 3 as they could twin enlarge/reduce while MAD this build is one of my favorite multiclasses because Metamagic is fun on wierd lists. This is also more RAW acceptable.

Edit: there is no reason the first build cannot twin the spell as well.