Longbow Archer Bard

[SmashedJuicebox]

Hello!

First time posting, fairly new to the game. Only have played AL and DM two half-campaigns :smallfrown:
This will be my first time as a player in a homebrew

Wanted to see what is the best route to take with this character. We have a STR Fighter, Monk, and a Rogue, but all played by completely new people, so I am not sure how well optimized they will be. We will have a Life Cleric that is very experienced at the game, so I am torn.
I want to make this character an archer with a hand at supportive magic.

Name: Bo Purnham
Race: Tabaxi
Class: Fighter 1
Stats (rolled): 11/19/14/13/14/16 (the gods are good)
BG: Gladiator, with his trainer also being a musician (hence grabbing Bard)
Weapon: Longbow, however it is a Viol that breaks apart and extends into a longbow.
My DM is letting me use my bow as my arcane focus, since it is creative with having my viol expand into a long bow with my tail holding the viol bow.

Thinking about Fighter 5 (Battlemaster), grab Lore Bard 3, then back to Fighter 17. Or, alternatively, going Bard 6/Fighter 14 for Haste.
I am feeling overwhelmed with all these guides debating between Valor vs. Sword, going full EK, etc. But honestly, I like the extra proficiencies with Lore Bard
While I think my spell slots and bonus action will be used for Healing Word, is there another way I can go for optimization to help the party?

I am not a fan of going full Lore Bard, as I just don't find it exciting (for me)

[CTurbo]

Why not go Fighter 1 for Archery, and then Valor Bard 10 and grab Swift Quiver for 4 Longbow attacks per round? Then you could review your character again to see if you want more Bard levels or more Fighter levels or something else entirely.

[lunaticfringe]

Using your original concept:

I'd take lore bard 6. Since I don't really plan on games going beyond 13-15, I'd go:

Fighter 5->Bard 6->Fighter X. The concept is basically fully realized and you still hit 3 feats/asi by 12.

[Talionis]

If you are starting out at level one I would start Dex Fighter and go 1 Fighter/ X Bard... a lot of people would slog towards extra attack first at level 5 fighter but what I am hearing is you want a Lore Bard that fights with a Bow. Fighter is a great starting class but just get your Archery, proficiency in weapons and armor and then be what you want to be a Lore Bard that fights with a bow.

As a second option Hexblade Warlock can get a bow would get medium armor and let you use a Longbow as your Pact Weapon. Warlocks give spells and the Invocations would be strong. 5 levels of Warlock gets you Extra Attacks just like 5 Fighter. It's an option.

But mostly play what you want. In 5E optimizing isnt a huge advantage. And everything is balanced pretty well.

[djreynolds]

If you are starting out at level one I would start Dex Fighter and go 1 Fighter/ X Bard... a lot of people would slog towards extra attack first at level 5 fighter but what I am hearing is you want a Lore Bard that fights with a Bow. Fighter is a great starting class but just get your Archery, proficiency in weapons and armor and then be what you want to be a Lore Bard that fights with a bow.

As a second option Hexblade Warlock can get a bow would get medium armor and let you use a Longbow as your Pact Weapon. Warlocks give spells and the Invocations would be strong. 5 levels of Warlock gets you Extra Attacks just like 5 Fighter. It's an option.

But mostly play what you want. In 5E optimizing isnt a huge advantage. And everything is balanced pretty well.

I like the hexblade/fighter idea
Or even a bladesinger/fighter. The rogue can cover down on most skills, and you have spells and rituals for the rest.

Warlock or wizard would fit, with a dash of fighter. But warlock can do it with just eldritch blast

[Vogie]

I like the idea of doing a 6 level lore bard dip. You get the most spells for your dip, as well as the ability to use the BI as reactions, and have them refresh on short rests, just like your battlemaster maneuvers.

If you wanted to lean into the Damage-dealing part of things, 3 or 5 into Whispers bard for Psychic smite damage is tough to pass up.

Alternatively, since your name is Bo Purnham, you may want to instead go into EK fighter for War Magic, mixed with Bard... which allows you to Insult your targets, then Bonus action attack! "When life gets you down, make a comforter!"

[Vexacia]

I want to make this character an archer with a hand at supportive magic.

Name: Bo Purnham
Race: Tabaxi
Class: Fighter 1
Stats (rolled): 11/19/14/13/14/16 (the gods are good)
BG: Gladiator, with his trainer also being a musician (hence grabbing Bard)
Weapon: Longbow, however it is a Viol that breaks apart and extends into a longbow.
My DM is letting me use my bow as my arcane focus, since it is creative with having my viol expand into a long bow with my tail holding the viol bow.

Thinking about Fighter 5 (Battlemaster), grab Lore Bard 3, then back to Fighter 17. Or, alternatively, going Bard 6/Fighter 14 for Haste.
I am feeling overwhelmed with all these guides debating between Valor vs. Sword, going full EK, etc. But honestly, I like the extra proficiencies with Lore Bard
While I think my spell slots and bonus action will be used for Healing Word, is there another way I can go for optimization to help the party?

I am not a fan of going full Lore Bard, as I just don't find it exciting (for me)
monoclass Valor Bard.

don't take Swift Quiver.

prioritize CHA > DEX.

use your Longbow in place of casting a cantrip, rather than as your primary mode of engaging the enemy (you are a full spellcaster and secondary martial, act like it).

congratulations you're now a fully optimized party support archer Bard.

sound appealing? great, go have fun, that's a good setup I just laid out for you.

sound unappealing? switch classes - if you don't want to play a full caster don't play a full caster.

a martial archer who provides secondary spell support for the party exists - it's called the Ranger. don't like it? fine, play archery Hexblade instead.

[CTurbo]

monoclass Valor Bard.

don't take Swift Quiver.

prioritize CHA > DEX.

use your Longbow in place of casting a cantrip, rather than as your primary mode of engaging the enemy (you are a full spellcaster and secondary martial, act like it).

congratulations you're now a fully optimized party support archer Bard.

sound appealing? great, go have fun, that's a good setup I just laid out for you.

sound unappealing? switch classes - if you don't want to play a full caster don't play a full caster.

a martial archer who provides secondary spell support for the party exists - it's called the Ranger. don't like it? fine, play archery Hexblade instead.


My Fighter 1/Valor Bard 10+ will do this just fine. He could be full support when he needs to be full support, and he can go into full archer mode when he needs to go full archer mode. Yeah the single Fighter level is not 100% necessary, but I still think it's worth it.

[SleepIncarnate]

Before I can give solid advice, I'm going to need to ask some questions, because the answers to them are going to help me point you in the right direction. That said, I'm going to go on a limb here and say your party probably needs a bard more than another fighter. Between the fighter, monk, and rogue, your party is heavy on the combat pillar but not so strong on the other two. Also, keep in mind that the only other player with any experience at the table is the cleric. The fighter is not going to be as good at keeping stuff off of the cleric, so a bard can come in really handy.

That said, a bard can be a great archer and provide great support to the party while also doing good damage. The first question is, do you focus more on being a bard or being an archer? This sounds like a strange question to ask, but both roles need a few feats for their ideal state, plus their ability scores are different, forcing you to choose between raising dexterity or charisma.

The second question is, what kind of archer? Roughly speaking, there are two types. One type is the single shot for massive damage type, such as a rogue. The other type is several shots that are weaker. Considering your heavy leanings to fighter, I'm guessing that you prefer the second type.

In that case, let me suggest a pure valor bard. Don't even take a first level in fighter for the constitution saving throw. Dexterity is also great, and as an archer, you're more worried about charisma saving throws (getting banished) than you are strength saving throws (getting knocked prone). And you likely won't have the strength to not be slowed down by heavy armor, and mobility is important. So start as a bard and just pick up the resilient feat later.

You still get two attacks, you have a LOT of ways to give yourself advantage (so you don't need that +2 to hit bonus), can have expertise in four of your seven proficiencies, and eventually be able to cast a spell and attack with your bow all in the same turn. You can even take a look at this other thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?575390-Sword-bard-ranged-build) where someone is building a bard archer focusing more on the archer side than the bard. I built a similar valor bard build that focuses more on the bard side, and even after a number crunching comparison, it was ruled that the valor bard build, while falling behind on DPR to the other build, is superior to the other build in every other way. Something like that might be a great basis to build off with your character, and I can even give you a level by level build to work from if you like, after knowing what you're looking for.

[SmashedJuicebox]

RE: SleepIncarnate
(Sorry for the lack of quote)


I'm liking this. This gives me good reason to go Valor Bard. Also, why Valor as opposed to Sword? Just curious.
I think creating the character, I pictured him being more Archer with multiple shots and secondary being spellcasting.
But with this party combination, I'm not opposed to being 50/50, or being supportive.
My thoughts were that all the spells I would get from Bard would be supportive and spell slots would be used for that. My bonus action being Healing Word or Swift Quiver uses. I pictured him being mobile and on the backline.
Sorry if this doesn't paint a good picture. I was the first one to make a character and then when all the newbies chose DPS characters, I am trying to adapt but stay to the core concept of the character

[Citan]

Hello!

First time posting, fairly new to the game. Only have played AL and DM two half-campaigns :smallfrown:
This will be my first time as a player in a homebrew

Wanted to see what is the best route to take with this character. We have a STR Fighter, Monk, and a Rogue, but all played by completely new people, so I am not sure how well optimized they will be. We will have a Life Cleric that is very experienced at the game, so I am torn.
I want to make this character an archer with a hand at supportive magic.

Name: Bo Purnham
Race: Tabaxi
Class: Fighter 1
Stats (rolled): 11/19/14/13/14/16 (the gods are good)
BG: Gladiator, with his trainer also being a musician (hence grabbing Bard)
Weapon: Longbow, however it is a Viol that breaks apart and extends into a longbow.
My DM is letting me use my bow as my arcane focus, since it is creative with having my viol expand into a long bow with my tail holding the viol bow.

Thinking about Fighter 5 (Battlemaster), grab Lore Bard 3, then back to Fighter 17. Or, alternatively, going Bard 6/Fighter 14 for Haste.
I am feeling overwhelmed with all these guides debating between Valor vs. Sword, going full EK, etc. But honestly, I like the extra proficiencies with Lore Bard
While I think my spell slots and bonus action will be used for Healing Word, is there another way I can go for optimization to help the party?

I am not a fan of going full Lore Bard, as I just don't find it exciting (for me)
Hi!

First of all...


Why not go Fighter 1 for Archery, and then Valor Bard 10 and grab Swift Quiver for 4 Longbow attacks per round? Then you could review your character again to see if you want more Bard levels or more Fighter levels or something else entirely.


monoclass Valor Bard.

don't take Swift Quiver.

prioritize CHA > DEX.

use your Longbow in place of casting a cantrip, rather than as your primary mode of engaging the enemy (you are a full spellcaster and secondary martial, act like it).

congratulations you're now a fully optimized party support archer Bard.

sound appealing? great, go have fun, that's a good setup I just laid out for you.

sound unappealing? switch classes - if you don't want to play a full caster don't play a full caster.

a martial archer who provides secondary spell support for the party exists - it's called the Ranger. don't like it? fine, play archery Hexblade instead.
I strongly disagree on Swift Quiver, but otherwise agree with both above. You could perfectly go Valor Bard, with either starting dip in Fighter or even without.

Another way that I'd like to suggest is, well, actually two...

1. Swords Bard (with optional starting Fighter): the special use of Bardic Inspiration is more beneficial to a melee character but, having better mobility and defense can still be useful when you are fighting in close quarters or when some enemy managed to reach you.
The Fighting Style is wasted though except when you need to completely switch to melee.
I'm mainly suggesting it on the ground that some of Valor's biggest value lies in defense equipment, and you probably will want high DEX anyways (so medium not that important) and you want to use longbow (so no shield either).
The number of cases where "use weapon attack when casting a spell" would be useful are scarce imo (I see mainly Haste) and come too late to my taste.
And barring that, I personally prefer Sword's Flourish to Valor's Combat but that is obviously debatable.

2. Whispers Bard, with or without multiclass into Fighter or Paladin for Extra Attack: instead of relying on Swift Quiver, you could go simply Haste for awhile then pick Tenser's Transformation as an alternative. Haste would greatly boost your nova damage (once per turn Whispers's extra damage -> same trick as Rogue, use normal action to Ready attack off-turn) while Tenser's Transformation would help you both offensively and defensively (extra THP, extra damage, Extra Attack).
At very high level, provided the DM agrees on the following reasoning (Haste grants a special Attack that can grant a single weapon attack, but Tenser's Transformation grants one more attack whenever you can make a weapon attack through an Attack action) you could stack both with a Simulacrum. Probably not the best use of your resources, but could make for a neat moment of glory.
Otherwise, just multiclass with Fighter, Paladin or Hexblade Warlock to get Extra Attack somewhere when you like it.

EDIT: Just noticed the bit in your late reply about you envisioning a mobile character.
In that case, maybe ditching the Fighter and instead pick Rogue could be the best for you: Dodge/Hide as a bonus action is great, and extra Expertise means you have more freedom to grab whatever College you'd prefer for other reasons.

Also, consider that Archery is only really useful if 1) you really want to use Sharpshooter extra damage constantly and 2) you don't want to rely on advantage + Elven Accuracy (which is fair, can work well but does require setup most of the time, especially for a ranged guy).
Otherwise, you can really do without: Sharpshooter is still a very beneficial feat to take if only because it doubles or triples your effective range (stacking cover ignorance and long distance ignorance).