What's the appeal of Kalamar as a setting?

[Luccan]

A store in my town is selling a pretty cheap copy of the 3rd edition Kingdoms of Kalamar setting book. I'm curious what the appeal of the setting is before I consider buying it. Anyone have a rough pitch of what there would be to look forward to?

[Blackhawk748]

A store in my town is selling a pretty cheap copy of the 3rd edition Kingdoms of Kalamar setting book. I'm curious what the appeal of the setting is before I consider buying it. Anyone have a rough pitch of what there would be to look forward to?

Realistic maps, lots of Kingdoms and political powers, numerous interesting cultures. I look at KoK as less of a single setting and more like 6 different ones that can be traveled between easily, each with it's own cultural sphere and interesting events.

Oh, and there is a distinct lack of super massive NPCs. The job of being Drizzt falls tou your players.

[Goaty14]

The job of being Drizzt falls tou your players.

No context necessary.

[Troacctid]

The bullet points given by the writers:


Incredibly detailed, incredibly real
The player characters are truly the heroes
Magic is scarce
Society is medieval—for good or bad
Unlimited campaign possibilities
You control the story

I got this from the preview of the first few pages of the 4e version on DriveThruRPG. (It goes into more detail than that.) https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/58027/Kingdoms-of-Kalamar-4th-edition-campaign-setting

[tyckspoon]

I'm not hugely familiar with it, but a big part of it is probably just that it's a detailed fantasy setting that is not the Forgotten Realms - no metaplot to worry about, no weird choices in how to convert it to new editions ruining things you liked, no famous NPCs one of your players knows everything about and gets on your case about when you play them 'wrong' or have something happen in the world that contradicts their favorite FR book.

[Blackhawk748]

Oh, there's also abunch of supplimental material as well as a host of modules to play. I've ran a few an really like them

[Fizban]

When people say details- it's got army size and composition for the countries, that's something I'd never seen before. Most of the book is city entries, so if you want a setting where you can point at the map, go there, and look up a specific entry for the city you're in, I'm pretty sure it's got them all beat. FR usually focuses on their main hub cities, leaving the rest shorter descriptions, and many of their regional books dedicate a ton of space to splat mechanics. The main Kalamar book does not. Like everyone saying, it's got as much or more setting information than the other major settings without the baggage.

On the other hand this can be as intimidating as Forgotten Realms, without the crutches of uber-NPCs and metaplots to fall back on, with a bunch of details to get wrong and expanded setting books you don't have yet. On the other other hand, without all those big people and places and events everyone already knows about, you can relax about getting things "wrong" and just incorporate whatever change you inadvertently made into the game.

One thing to note is that when they do get to game mechanics in their other books, it's veeeery 3.0. I went through the Player's Guide after finding one on sale myself, and found that aside from a few cute spells you could count on one hand, none of the character material was very usable even my increadbily modest power level standards. They also went rather a bit overboard in the monster book making animal variants, there's like a dozen different types of housecat with different stats and the prices assigned to all the different animals you could buy are all over the place. Still better than having no starting point though.

[Luccan]

Ok, so a mostly low-power, low-magic, well detailed setting where there are things the PCs could be expected to handle and not wonder OOC why one of the setting heroes isn't doing it. Sounds like a decent enough investment at the price. Doing digging elsewhere also brought up that there are some balance issues with content released for the setting, but it sounds like as long as I look through it all beforehand I could get some real use out of this as a setting. What do you think of the viability of E6 in the setting?

[Blackhawk748]

Ok, so a mostly low-power, low-magic, well detailed setting where there are things the PCs could be expected to handle and not wonder OOC why one of the setting heroes isn't doing it. Sounds like a decent enough investment at the price. Doing digging elsewhere also brought up that there are some balance issues with content released for the setting, but it sounds like as long as I look through it all beforehand I could get some real use out of this as a setting. What do you think of the viability of E6 in the setting?

Should be fine. Its a gernally lower powered setting to begin with so dropping the cap shouldnt be an issue. Just be sure to take a look at some of the nastier higher level NPCs to see if you can scale them down.

As for the balance thing... Most of the broken stuff is insanely obvious and can be made reasonable with a feww tweaks. They were setting designers first and formost, their mechanics are fairly lousy. This is particularly true for the PRCs. Most are trash but they are also easily fixable.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Troacctid
Incredibly detailed, incredibly real…

I wouldn’t go that far, but it does have a more grounded feel to it.


Originally Posted by Blackhawk748
Its a gernally lower powered setting to begin with so dropping the cap shouldnt be an issue.

Definitely low-powered even by average game standards, to say nothing of expectations in the Playground. Some of the supplements have an abundance of NPC statblocks, but the builds tend to be very basic. To be fair, though, they didn’t have access to the later 3.5 material when most of this was developed.


Originally Posted by Fizban
They also went rather a bit overboard in the monster book making animal variants, there's like a dozen different types of housecat with different stats….

I didn't see the housecats, but they do have a nice selection of small wildcats (ocelots, margays, etc.) and several different breeds of horse. I enjoy that and appreciate their efforts to detail the world through its animals, so I don’t mind this aspect.


Originally Posted by Luccan
Ok, so a mostly low-power, low-magic, well detailed setting….

If you have a chance, try to pick up the Kingdoms of Kalamar Atlas (https://www.amazon.com/Kingdoms-Kalamar-Atlas-Dungeons-Dragons/dp/188918263X/), which is the most beautifully rendered set of fantasy maps I’ve ever seen in print, with the exception of Karen Fonstad’s work. The Kalamar maps are superb, and really sell the concept and the feel of a vast world full of danger and possibility.

[Fizban]

I didn't see the housecats, but they do have a nice selection of small wildcats (ocelots, margays, etc.) and several different breeds of horse. I enjoy that and appreciate their efforts to detail the world through its animals, so I don’t mind this aspect.
I may have exaggerated- anything weaker than say, the Serval from Sandstorm basically registers to me as a housecat, especially when you consider how many people have big housecats, possibly claiming bobcat ancestry. Different horses are nice, but FR also has those. I do agree that more animals is good, I just found all those cats and the price table silly.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Fizban
Different horses are nice, but FR also has those.

Really? Where? I’d never noticed, would like to see those.

[Endarire]

For Kalamar, what are the most important things to adjust for a 3.5 campaign?

[Fizban]

Really? Where? I’d never noticed, would like to see those.
Champions of Valor, last thing in the book.

[Blackhawk748]

Definitely low-powered even by average game standards, to say nothing of expectations in the Playground. Some of the supplements have an abundance of NPC statblocks, but the builds tend to be very basic. To be fair, though, they didn’t have access to the later 3.5 material when most of this was developed.

There's a reason it gets the backhanded compliment of "Best Vanilla Setting". It was made with just core and a handful of specialty options in mind.


I didn't see the housecats, but they do have a nice selection of small wildcats (ocelots, margays, etc.) and several different breeds of horse. I enjoy that and appreciate their efforts to detail the world through its animals, so I don’t mind this aspect.

Monster of Tellene (their Monster Manual) has like 10 different Troll sub species, which I thought was neat as well as a bunch of really cool monsters, some just Tellene variants, but a decent chunk being straight up unique to Tellene itself.


If you have a chance, try to pick up the Kingdoms of Kalamar Atlas (https://www.amazon.com/Kingdoms-Kalamar-Atlas-Dungeons-Dragons/dp/188918263X/), which is the most beautifully rendered set of fantasy maps I’ve ever seen in print, with the exception of Karen Fonstad’s work. The Kalamar maps are superb, and really sell the concept and the feel of a vast world full of danger and possibility.

Own it and love it. There's a tone of villages and towns and they all have population statistics. Theres also a nice tear out hex map you can use to calculte distances, but I just used a piece of paper.


For Kalamar, what are the most important things to adjust for a 3.5 campaign?

Probably just updating the statblocks. They did their own 3.5 update in Players Guide to the Soverign Lands so thats done for you (but seriously, fix the PRCs, the fullf is great the mechanics are hot garbage) but the NPCs may have some legacy issues.

[Florian]

The major appeal depends entirely on the edition you use with and whether you understand the setting or rules to have primacy.

Ok, that is a mouth full and needs explanation.

Kalamar is a very detailed setting when it comes to politics and the relationships between different power groups and blocks. As such, it thankfully ignores the hight of personal power a character could attain, depending on the system, instead staying with the big picture and working from there.

That means that one one hand, your party and characters can truly become heroes, no matter the level (in relevance to the system used), as there is not set of precedences which are clearly stated as having been better
On the other hand, it means to stay grounded as the whole setup showcases the might of pooled resources relative to individual might and personal power.

[Clistenes]

The Kalamar setting looks more a realistic medieval world with some magic on top than any other setting.

Magic is scarce. Magic is known and used, but it is a big deal, rather than an everyday thing. Clerics are treated as awe-inspiring messengers of the gods rather than adventurers who know a few cool tricks, wizards and other arcane casters are often mistaken for priests themselves, and when they are recognized as arcane casters, they are feared. Mages tend to be part of elitist guilds/academies allied with the government, or of elite units of the army. You won't find magic marts or wizards running a shop or clerics administering to a throp...

EDIT: I think it would work great with 5th edition, but I doubt it will ever be adapted to it... Kenzer & Company use Hackmaster now...

[Raxxius]

Kalamar is a sword and sorcery setting, the appeal is to play something more in line with classical books over the high fantasy that 3.5 evolved into.

At least that's the draw for me.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Fizban
Different horses are nice, but FR also has those....

Champions of Valor, last thing in the book.

Whaddaya know. Twenty-one different varieties, no less. That’s some setting love.


Originally Posted by Blackhawk748
Monster of Tellene (their Monster Manual)….

Ah, yes. Who could forget the Tarantubat? :smalltongue:

[Blackhawk748]

Ah, yes. Who could forget the Tarantubat? :smalltongue:

You joke, but i had a player who absolutely hated the fact that those things even existed. She hated spiders in general, but the thought of a flying one was even worse. I tiotally sued them and they are pretty fun.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Blackhawk748
I tiotally sued them and they are pretty fun.

At first glance I thought you meant actual litigation. :smalltongue:

I don't think any of my players have spider issues, but I'll give the tarantubat another read. An undead variant would probably give my players the creeps.

[Blackhawk748]

At first glance I thought you meant actual litigation. :smalltongue:

I don't think any of my players have spider issues, but I'll give the tarantubat another read. An undead variant would probably give my players the creeps.

Ya, my keyboard is dumb. The Tarantubat's are solid, you just gotta run a bunch of them at once. Like a pseudo-swarm.