Create Food and Water?

[danielxcutter]

The food that this spell creates is simple fare of your choice—highly nourishing, if rather bland.

Okay then - any ideas what might count as "simple fare" for the purpose of this spell? I'm open to suggestions.

This probably isn't going to really matter in the vast majority of games, but hey, nothing wrong with doing something rather atypical, eh?

[Elkad]

Almost anything. Just assume it's always unspiced, overcooked, never quite the right temperature, etc.

It's the divinely-granted equivalent of an army chow hall. It's all edible. None of it is good.

[Goaty14]

If I were a DM to adjudicate this, I'd rule that it can look however the player wants it to, but will taste the equivalent of a Sustaining Spoon (which has CF&W as a prereq)... "warm, wet cardboard" :smallyuk:

[Saintheart]

Oatmeal; porridge; soup; cabbage soup; rice. All nourishing if bland.

[Clistenes]

Dull sandwiches, the magic equivalent to instant soup and noodles...etc. You will survive, but you would rather have real food rather than eating it every day...

[Albions_Angel]

A fresh loaf of traditional Dwarf Bread.

Its amazing stuff, is Dwarf Bread. Starving, cut off from supply lines, far behind the enemy position, whole armies have found they could go on for MONTHS while all that was in their stores was a single loaf of Dwarf Bread. With Dwarf Bread, suddenly everything is magically nourishing. Mud. Boots. Rocks that dont look too much like Dwarf Bread.

[Ashtagon]

Porridge, rice, unseasoned plain bread, (unspiced, minimally salted) vegetable soup. Traces of something that may be bland fish, ham, or chicken.

[Fizban]

If I had to pick something cute, I'd go with the "perfectly nutritionally balanced loaf" that pops up on occasion, or the drinkable shake version (the latter of which is a thing you can buy that goes by Soylent, dunno if anyone makes the former). But the spell isn't nearly so restrictive, and the term highly nourishing implies a certain level of quality I think.

While the instinct may be to avoid recognizable things, no such restriction is in the description as long as you can put (bland) in front of something (simple). You could summon up a bunch of (bland) eggs, (bland) bread, (bland) fruit, and (bland) vegetables. So unseasoned eggs, plain bread, plain rice, "Red Delicious" apples, iceberg lettuce, carrots, vat of beans, etc. Pick two to go with your water. I'd strike soup from the options but if bread is uncomplicated enough then soup must be.

[Ruethgar]

What about live monkey, octopus, and squid? If you can pick the food summoned, could you not summon things people eat live?

[HouseRules]

What about live monkey, octopus, and squid? If you can pick the food summoned, could you not summon things people eat live?

What prevents an evil cleric from summoning the PCs to eat?

[Ruethgar]

What prevents an evil cleric from summoning the PCs to eat?

Prestidigitate you’re flavor through the roof and they can’t summon you!

[InvisibleBison]

What prevents an evil cleric from summoning the PCs to eat?

Create food and water is a Creation spell, so it doesn't summon anything. An anthropophagic cleric could, however, create duplicates of the PCs, though unless the PCs are made out of water they'd constitute food and would thus decay within 24 hours.

[Ruethgar]

Create food and water is a Creation spell, so it doesn't summon anything. An anthropophagic cleric could, however, create duplicates of the PCs, though unless the PCs are made out of water they'd constitute food and would thus decay within 24 hours.

Yeah, but they could still be temporary people, especially if you were playing PF since there are specifics on what various types of vampires eat and count as food, if I recall this includes phychic vamps so may even include a working mind. And of course the common limiter that victims have to be alive to be able to sustain is another factor.

Edit: Kind of odd that PF has those mechanics but the content bloated 3.5 does not.

[Deophaun]

Yeah, but they could still be temporary people, especially if you were playing PF since there are specifics on what various types of vampires eat and count as food, if I recall this includes phychic vamps so may even include a working mind.
Not going to work:

Effect: Food and water to sustain three humans or one horse/level for 24 hours

[Ruethgar]

A vampiric human still has the Human subtype and is thus still human and their food is thusly a valid effect parameter. However you did just dash my dreams of mindflayers.

[Remuko]

Not going to work:

Guess the elves cant eat!

[HouseRules]

Guess the elves cant eat!

Elves require less daily kilocalories than humans do. Probably around 20 kilocalories per day for them vs 2000 kilocalories for an average woman or 2500 kilocalories for an average man.

Lembas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Kyzizhvxo8)

[Deophaun]

A vampiric human still has the Human subtype

No, it has the (augmented humanoid) subtype.

[Ruethgar]

No, it has the (augmented humanoid) subtype.

They never lose their Human subtype, the only things changed are their type and the fact that they gain the augmented subtype.

But regardless, the fact that the Human Heritage feat exists and has no bearing on diet means that anything able to sexually reproduce at any point in their lives can be valid as a human and have their food qualify.

[Deophaun]

They never lose their Human subtype
Yes, they do. They lose it when their type changes. There is nothing that says they get to keep it, so it's gone.

But regardless, the fact that the Human Heritage feat exists and has no bearing on diet means that anything able to sexually reproduce at any point in their lives can be valid as a human and have their food qualify.
That's also not how the Human Heritage feat works.

[Ruethgar]

Yes, they do. They lose it when their type changes. There is nothing that says they get to keep it, so it's gone.

That's also not how the Human Heritage feat works.
Then they also lose their skills and bonus feat since the template doesn’t call out racial traits as kept either and they’re not called out as special qualities. Also class levels aren’t called out as kept, nor faustian pacts, or any of the various rituals.

Speaking of rituals, even without Human Hertitage or natural subtype, you can ritually add the Human subtype to any creature living or not.

Half-Human Dragon can, as a dragon, breed with anything living, same with Half-Fey, so any living creature can be human descended and thus qualify for Human Heritage.

[ericgrau]

Oatmeal
Bread rolls
Look at the low quality PHB meals: turnips & potatoes, etc.
Succotash: corn & beans
Bean soup with carrots & celery

As a DM I would allow any super basic recipe the player wants, even with veggies. Just no spice outside of a little salt, no long ingredient lists, etc. If you can throw chunks of plant of 1-5 types into a crock pot for 8 hours, you can have it. I wouldn't make it burnt or overcooked, nor bad tasting. Heck I like succotash, and IIRC it was eaten during desperate times because it's cheap and easy. But I wouldn't even allow pepper on it, because hey pepper used to be fancy and this is a middle ages-ish fantasy world. Say what you will about the former cost of salt but at least a tiny bit of salt is essential for survival, so I'd allow it. The spell says it's simple and nourishing food, though bland. Not that there's anything horrible about it.

[HouseRules]

How does Lembas work? How many could a man eat? Pippin could eat four, while Legolas only takes a small bite.

[InvisibleBison]

How does Lembas work? How many could a man eat? Pippin could eat four, while Legolas only takes a small bite.

Lord of the Rings doesn't use D&D rules, so your question is invalid.

[Deophaun]

Then they also lose their skills and bonus feat since the template doesn’t call out racial traits as kept either
The template says that the type changes. So it changes. The old type is not kept.
The template does not say that skills or bonus feats change, or that they are removed, so they stay.

Templates do not work that way.

Speaking of rituals, even without Human Hertitage or natural subtype, you can ritually add the Human subtype to any creature living or not.

This ritual does not grant the human dwarf, elf, gnome, and halfling subtypes of humanoid

Half-Human Dragon can, as a dragon, breed with anything living, same with Half-Fey, so any living creature can be human descended and thus qualify for Human Heritage.
Human Heritage requires you either be half human, or your RACE be human descended. The first clue that you misread it is when you didn't ponder why half human was mentioned if being 1/1024th human was also sufficient.

https://i.ibb.co/G5wjVQJ/thats-not-how-this-works.jpg (https://ibb.co/P6p85GY)

[Dawgmoah]

Almost anything. Just assume it's always unspiced, overcooked, never quite the right temperature, etc.

It's the divinely-granted equivalent of an army chow hall. It's all edible. None of it is good.

That's how I usually run it. I think of Pottage or other simple peasant foods which kept a person alive but wasn't all that appealing unless one was starving.

I always get a kick out of players who have their characters survive on Create Food and Water spells while ordering pizzas or wings; and don't forget the hot sauce!

[HouseRules]

Half Human rules are different in different Editions.

A 100% Elf-blood Half-Elf is considered Half-Human in 2E because 2E says the descendant of a human and an elf is always half-elf or human, but never full elf. 50% to 100% Elven Blood makes the character Half-Elf, and 0%-49% Elven Blood makes the character fully count as human.

Percentage could exceed 100% in 3E with Half-templates.

[Ruethgar]

The template says that the type changes. So it changes. The old type is not kept.
The template does not say that skills or bonus feats change, or that they are removed, so they stay.

Templates do not work that way.

Human Heritage requires you either be half human, or your RACE be human descended. The first clue that you misread it is when you didn't ponder why half human was mentioned if being 1/1024th human was also sufficient.

I wasn’t talking about the type, I was talking about the subtype which is not mentioned as changing and was the point of my examples of other things the template doesn’t specify you to keep but have no change mentioned in the template.

Every demihuman or sentient life could still be considered human descendants at the very least because of those Vile humans being the first of the(failed) sapient mortals from which others were based and improved upon. But even without that the ritual addition is still valid letting any creature be considered human and their food thus able to be created with create food and water.

Half Elves are called out for 3.5 as being able to be several generations removed and even spontaneously occurring many generations after the blood was introduced. So yes, 1/1024th human is sufficient.

Interestingly, unless you use the Vile human argument a full elf descended from a human can’t take human heritage but could have a half-human elf child with another elf.