Sleeping in armour.

[Aussiehams]

G'day all.

This may be a hang over from previous editions, but is there any penalty for sleeping in heavy armour?

And what is the generally feeling on it? I know people doze of wearing a helmet and vest, but a set of plate seems like a whole different kettle of fish.

Cheers.

[jdolch]

Actually I imagine if it fits you properly it's quite cozy. Better than lying on a crummy, flee ridden mattress or on the hard ground, where sticks and stones poke into your back. Not to mention giving you peace of mind. Maybe you could loosen the straps a little.

TBH if you start with nitpicky stuff like this, then I rule that nobody could take any kind of Long Rest in the whole campaign of Curse of Strahd. Or do you imagine anyone can sleep in a dreadful situation like this. I mean you can do whatever you want in your campaigns but D&D really isn't meant to be this intricate. As long as you don't have some specific reason to go this OCD, i would just leave it alone. It's probably gonna be a huge drag on your pacing if you start rolling initiative for people to put on their clothes.

[thoroughlyS]

The core rules don't have any penalties, but there is a set of optional rules in Xanathar's Guide to Everything. Basically, if you sleep in medium or heavy armor, you don't reduce exhaustion and recover less Hit Dice (1/4 instead of 1/2).

[Capac Amaru]

Does this have anything to do with laughing pixies and a dwarf choking on a rock?

Sleeping in armor probably should have a penalty, it really isn't designed to be lied down in.

As a DM I'd probably rule it as something you can get away with night one, but starts to bite back on 2nd night +

[Biggstick]

As thoroughlyS pointed out, there are optional rules included in Xanathar's Guide. If you were to use any set of rules regarding resting in armor, I'd suggest using the optional ones put forth by WOTC.

[Maan]

As a reference for "realism": I had a bunch of friends who slept with 20+ kgs of historically accurate chainmail on each of the 5 nights of a larp event we attended.
And no, they were not hulking brutes (but for one, they were pretty normal guys).
And weight in mail armor is less well distributed along the body than with plate.

[jdolch]

Also we are not talking about a computer geek who dons some ill-fitting sheet-metal LARP armor made in a chinese sweatshop once a year.

We are talking about a Paladin who has worn plate armor every day for the past 20 years. Who is conditioned to it and has gotten used to it in a way a modern person can't even fathom. Maybe ask some professional Soldier if they can sleep in a Level IV Vest and LBE. I bet you they can sleep like babies. A friend of mine is a professional soldier for 15 years. The guy can lay down in the middle of an Airport floor and sleep for 8 hours. Hell, I once slept for 8 hours while in the other room they took down the wall with a jack hammer.

[Malifice]

In my games I rule if the Fighter sleeps in armor, the Wizard in the party dies via spontaneous combustion.

Its harsh, but fair.

[Capac Amaru]

Also we are not talking about a computer geek who dons some ill-fitting sheet-metal LARP armor made in a chinese sweatshop once a year.

We are talking about a Paladin who has worn plate armor every day for the past 20 years. Who is conditioned to it and has gotten used to it in a way a modern person can't even fathom. Maybe ask some professional Soldier if they can sleep in a Level IV Vest and LBE. I bet you they can sleep like babies. A friend of mine is a professional soldier for 15 years. The guy can lay down in the middle of an Airport floor and sleep for 8 hours. Hell, I once slept for 8 hours while in the other room they took down the wall with a jack hammer.

I've driven a car for many years. Doesn't mean I won't feel like rubbish if I sleep in it every night.

Sleeping in anything that involves half an hour of buckles and ties and things is not going to be pleasant.

[Zalabim]

I've driven a car for many years. Doesn't mean I won't feel like rubbish if I sleep in it every night.

Sleeping in anything that involves half an hour of buckles and ties and things is not going to be pleasant.

Meanwhile, my car is more comfortable than many beds I've been offered. It also only takes a few seconds to buckle or unbuckle in it, so I'm imagining that we have very different standards for vehicular safety.

[mer.c]

FWIW, every time I’ve seen this come up, a number of LARPers pop in to say that they sleep just fine in authentic recreations of anything from chain to plate armor. Not the most comfortably, but not really worse than the ground, and when you’re that tired from walking and fighting all day, you get a sound sleep.

I haven’t done this myself, but figured I’d throw it out there.

[jdolch]

I've driven a car for many years. Doesn't mean I won't feel like rubbish if I sleep in it every night.

How do people on this forum constantly come up with this colorful array of flawed analogies...

How is sitting in a car comparable to wearing armor? Just because you did it for years? I trained boxing for 20 years. Doesn't mean i can sleep well while being punched. And ... drumroll ... still has nothing to do with wearing armor.

The reason you feel rubbish is probably because you can't lay down flat in your car and then you have back pain when you wake up. That doesn't have any bearing on this topic. In Armor you can lay down flat and have proper back support.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

How do people on this forum constantly come up with this colorful array of flawed analogies...

How is sitting in a car comparable to wearing armor? Just because you did it for years? I trained boxing for 20 years. Doesn't mean i can sleep well while being punched. And ... drumroll ... still has nothing to do with wearing armor.

The reason you feel rubbish is probably because you can't lay down flat in your car and then you have back pain when you wake up. That doesn't have any bearing on this topic. In Armor you can lay down flat and have proper back support.

I sleep best near nude. Armor might bother me.

I#2 can sleep in an airport next toba jackhammer.

I#3 can only sleep with my favorite teddy. But could sleep on Mustafar as long as that Teddy was there.

Perhaps there is a dice roll called for?

[jdolch]

I sleep best near nude. Armor might bother me.Would it still bother you if you had been accustomed to wearing it daily for the past years and there was a real chance of getting attacked by giant spiders in the middle of the Night?


I#3 can only sleep with my favorite teddy. But could sleep on Mustafar as long as that Teddy was there. I don't know who Mustafar is but, yes, you can cuddle with your Familiar.


Perhaps there is a dice roll called for? No. And we also don't roll for Initiative in the Morning to decide who gets to pee first.

[Arcangel4774]

In my games I rule if the Fighter sleeps in armor, the Wizard in the party dies via spontaneous combustion.

Its harsh, but fair.

Im trying to find if there is some hidden rational here going over my heas or if your just one truly chaotic dm.

[Capac Amaru]

How do people on this forum constantly come up with this colorful array of flawed analogies...

How is sitting in a car comparable to wearing armor? Just because you did it for years? I trained boxing for 20 years. Doesn't mean i can sleep well while being punched. And ... drumroll ... still has nothing to do with wearing armor.

The reason you feel rubbish is probably because you can't lay down flat in your car and then you have back pain when you wake up. That doesn't have any bearing on this topic. In Armor you can lay down flat and have proper back support.

I picked a car because car seats are designed for comfort and safety, like armor.

Also like armor, they are not designed to lie down in.

But I'm sure lying on a metal plate, with kilos of chain compressing your chest instead of being supported by your shoulders is just like a factory fresh modern mattress.

Even if you were to get a good night's sleep... well, it'll be fun watching you thrash around like an upturned turtle to deal with the critical situation you were sleeping in your armor to stay 'prepared' for.

If you haven't floated away on your armor's sheer fluffiness.

[jdolch]

I picked a car because car seats are designed for comfort and safety, like armor.

Also like armor, they are not designed to lie down in.

But I'm sure lying on a metal plate, with kilos of chain compressing your chest instead of being supported by your shoulders is just like a factory fresh modern mattress.

Even if you were to get a good night's sleep... well, it'll be fun watching you thrash around like an upturned turtle to deal with the critical situation you were sleeping in your armor to stay 'prepared' for.

If you haven't floated away on your armor's sheer fluffiness.

I don't think you have a firm grasp on how Armor actually works.

1. A plate cuirass doesn't compress your chest since the backplate is connected to the front plate and forms a solid piece around you. And even if you would only wear a front plate (which you wouldn't in a small group like in D&D) it would sit on you hip and your upper chest and not on your sternum where it actually would restrict breathing.

2. Under the cuirass you would wear a thick Gambeson to soften blows, which also handily acts as a cushion for when you lay down on your backplate which

3. itself coincidentally isn't all that much harder then the ground.

4. You would also not wear "kilos of chain" under the cuirass. You would wear chainmail in the places where your plate armor doesn't reach, such as the back of joints. (Or arms and legs in case of Half-plate).

5. Chainmail isn't as heavy as you think and

6. that also goes for plate armor. You are not immobile like a turtle. There is plenty of videos on Youtube of people wearing historically correct full plate armor and doing all kinds of crazy things like jumping on Horses and jumping from prone position into a standing position.

Here's a Video showing mobility in medieval plate armor. (Keep in mind that these are not even people who are used to wearing this stuff in the way an actual Knight, let alone D&D Paladin, would be.)

https://youtu.be/7RR6I-BLKbQ?t=530

You're welcome.

[JackPhoenix]

But I'm sure lying on a metal plate, with kilos of chain compressing your chest instead of being supported by your shoulders is just like a factory fresh modern mattress.

Yes, just like bed made from few planks of wood with some cloth on fur on it is just like factory fresh modern mattress. Oh, wait, it's not... how could our ancestors even sleep on something like that for thousands of years? Or even on the floor with a thin blanket or straw mattress underneath?

Metal armor has thick padding underneath, protecting you from contact with the metal. Gambeson is actually more comfortable than sleeping on bare ground, as it protects you from stones, uneven terrain and other uncomfortable stuff.

And ironically, mail's weight is distributed BETTER when you're lying than when it's hanging from your shoulders.

The actual problem with sleeping in armor is heat. Which is less of a problem if you're sleeping outside in cold.

[Pex]

The real question is how often does the DM interrupt a long rest to have the party attacked. If it's nil to once in a while then there's nothing to worry about. Don't sleep in armor and deal with it when a fight does happen. The DM knows you're not in armor and not in full defense. You're vulnerable and perhaps it's meant for other party members to shine this combat. Show your bravery and intellectual thinking on what you do here. If it's at least half to almost every single time tell the DM to knock it off and stop playing against his players. If he refuses get a new DM.

If the party has to long rest in a dangerous area it is prudent to take precautions to minimize surprise attacks, respond quickly, etc. Perhaps heavy armor wearers should take first or last watch to minimize when they're not in armor. Players do have some responsibility in this matter. Sometimes an encounter during a long rest is not a combat.

[Legendairy]

A few points, may slightly be off topic but I doubt it.

I did the professional soldiering gig for a while, I could sleep in an IBA with side sappys and groin guard, I had to remove the neck guard cause it felt like it was choking. The ACH or helmet had to go tho, I also slept on floors, pool tables, couches, woods, tarmac, even on pallets in the IBA, because you don’t feel much. Here is the tricky part, you sleep because you are utterly exhausted from a 4hr fire fight or 12hrs of kicking in doors, it’s easier in that situation to catch a few zzz’s in full kit. I had buddies who couldn’t sleep well in it and even in hostile environments would try to doff it ASAP. With this all said my body was sore, my shoulders and back were swollen after a few days of this. I would drop it when I could as well, the sand is not that bad with a nice blanket laid on top, also a bed errrmygerrrd a bed was the best thing in the world after long ops. If you had a few nights to not wear it maybe like 2 putting it back on could be one of the worst feelings ever.

Main take away, each person is different, a bed is always bedder IMHO, people do strip down in hostile places where they know a fire fight is likely.

With all that said tho, I wore a lot of gear and it’s my understanding that knight armor and soldier armor of yore was actually BETTER in weight distribution and your mobility than most modern body armors.

[Laserlight]

I know a combat engineer who could sleep sitting on a steel shelf in a moving personnel carrier, although I assume "perpetual exhaustion" might have been a little bit of a factor. My combat arms friends all seem to have had a fondness for unreasonable quantities of energy drinks.

I've slept in armor. If you're okay with a heavy blanket, armor is fine, although I'd doff the helm and gauntlets. Now, the next day in the same clothes, you're going to feel pretty grubby, particularly if you worked up a sweat fighting (or just "standing around in armor" unless it's a cool day), but then again, Prestidigitation will solve that.

[Aussiehams]

I have slept wearing a plate carrier and full duty belt, and dozed off with a helmet on, but I can’t imagine getting comfy enough to sleep in an EOD9, which seems at least comparable to a suit of plate. And I have been really tired.
I assume it can be done, and it hasn’t come up in game, I was just curious on what people thought. I remember it being an issue in 3/4E.

[JellyPooga]

I've slept in both chain and plate with no problem; it's actually pretty comfy so long as you aren't expecting a feather bed. After a hard day wearing armour (let alone travel and fighting in it), mostly all you care about is being warm and having a bit of quiet so you can get some shut-eye. The thing about armour is that on the whole, it's the same shape as you. That means you can really snuggle into the nooks and crannies and if you're on even something vaguely soft it's not really that much less comfy than not wearing it. The main issue is any pointy bits, but you can tuck blankets around you or, you know, just sleep so the pointy bits aren't poking you. I have issue with rules that imply there should be any penalty for wearing even the heaviest armour (unless they're stupid fantasy armour, of course; that stuff might be a different matter).

tl;dr - if armour wasn't comfy to sleep in, it wouldn't be wearable in the first place.

[KorvinStarmast]

tl;dr - if armour wasn't comfy to sleep in, it wouldn't be wearable in the first place. the armor isn't a problem to sleep in. It's what you are sleeping on. find a comfortable position, and you sleep. the "you don't recover if you sleep in armor" is yet another piece of "guy at the gym" horsecrap.

I've slept on the steel deck of a warship when our helicopter was waiting for parts/sunrise. My concern was out of the wind (check) and comfortable position. Check. I slept. (Yes, of course I'd rather have had a bed, but it wasn't an option that night).

In the out of doors, it doesn't take a lot of time to use broken branches/etc to create a little bit of bedding. Then sleep.

[Naanomi]

I’ve slept in... um... a breastplate I guess? It was hard to stay warm

If I did have penalties, I probably wouldn’t use them for armor proficiencies gained from race

[Capac Amaru]

I'm beginning to wonder why the game bothers to have rules for equipping and unequipping, if full plate just feels like I'm wearing nothing at all.

[DeadMech]

I'm beginning to wonder why the game bothers to have rules for equipping and unequipping, if full plate just feels like I'm wearing nothing at all.

nothing at all
nothing at all

Stupid sexy Flanders

[ad_hoc]

It's not about comfort.

A myriad of health problems can arise from living in armour.

Probably not a big deal for an overnight stay in the wilderness.

It would be an important concern on a longer expedition.

[JellyPooga]

It's not about comfort.

A myriad of health problems can arise from living in armour.

Probably not a big deal for an overnight stay in the wilderness.

It would be an important concern on a longer expedition.

To be fair, those problems are mostly the same as those for wearing the same clothes for days on end; i.e. hygiene, rather than any aspect of it being armour per se. So unless you want to start imposing penalties for characters that don't bathe regularly or don't have spare clothes on their equipment list...

[jdolch]

It's not about comfort.

A myriad of health problems can arise from living in armour.

You know what else can cause a myriad of health problems? Being eaten by giant spiders.

[Whit]

And if you watch 1980 Excalibur. They do sleep in full plate armor

[Naanomi]

It's not about comfort.

A myriad of health problems can arise from living in armour.

Probably not a big deal for an overnight stay in the wilderness.

It would be an important concern on a longer expedition.
Carrying a lot of weight (OT guidelines are no more than 25% of body weight over periods of more than 30 minutes) can have long term health effects as well, though for adventurers that is at least as much about the giant backpack and dozen weapons some carry around all day as well

[jdolch]

Carrying a lot of weight (OT guidelines are no more than 25% of body weight over periods of more than 30 minutes) can have long term health effects as well, though for adventurers that is at least as much about the giant backpack and dozen weapons some carry around all day as well

Depends on distribution of Weight. Armor happens to be distributed really well.

[Laserlight]

I'm beginning to wonder why the game bothers to have rules for equipping and unequipping, if full plate just feels like I'm wearing nothing at all.

Last week our group discussed "embarrassing moments", and my half elf said that it wasn't getting tipsy and doing a striptease on the bar (she does that fairly often); it was getting tipsy, getting on the bar and starting to strip, and only then remembering that she was in half plate. Oops.

[Capac Amaru]

Last week our group discussed "embarrassing moments", and my half elf said that it wasn't getting tipsy and doing a striptease on the bar (she does that fairly often); it was getting tipsy, getting on the bar and starting to strip, and only then remembering that she was in half plate. Oops.

She should have just left it on. Armor is so comfortable that its great to sleep in, and presumably any other bed related activities.

[jdolch]

She should have just left it on. Armor is so comfortable that its great to sleep in, and presumably any other bed related activities.

How old are you? Sex isn't about comfort. I'd do a Babe in heavy Armor, no questions asked. :smallbiggrin:

[Capac Amaru]

How old are you? Sex isn't about comfort. I'd do a Babe in heavy Armor, no questions asked. :smallbiggrin:

Old enough to consider my partners comfort as well as my own :P

[Laserlight]

Heavenly Feather would be happy to start in armor, but she's quite insecure about her (lack of) figure, so if you didn't eventually want to see her without armor, she'd be upset.

[Dark Schneider]

Notice that we have times to suit the armors in PHB. So they probably anticipated something like that (having to remove the armor) but let the DMs to handle when and how.

[HappyDaze]

I fell asleep at my desk once while wearing a tie. I woke up feeling like I was being choked.

[jdolch]

Did you like it? :smallbiggrin:

This thread has taken a wrong turn somewhere ...

[Astofel]

I've heard time and time again that armour in RPGs isn't at all how armour was IRL (IRL armour doesn't really slow you down much, it's designed to let you move freely so check penalties aren't really a thing, etc.) but as far as I'm concerned that doesn't matter when it comes to talking about game rules. Could ye olde medieval knights happily sleep in their plate armour? Personally I can barely sleep in jeans, but maybe they were accustomed to it. 5e Xanathar rules state that you *can* sleep in armour, but you won't rest as effectively if the armour is heavy. So there's the RAW answer to that question.

Personally in my game there's a paladin PC who never takes off his armour, more or less as a joke, but in the rare circumstances the party's been attacked while resting I've allowed him to be wearing it, and he's never suffered any penalty from resting in it because the game started before Xanathar's was released. I've retroactively 'justified' this by homeruling the Heavy Armour Master feat to allow you to sleep normally in heavy armour since the paladin character has the feat and the also heavily-armoured cleric does not.

Not that it's super important for me, since I only very rarely ambush resting characters, and when I do it's usually only when they're travelling between towns. Even then my players have reached the level where if travelling poses a reasonable threat to them then there's no way any commoner could travel anywhere without high-level bodyguards, so travel gets handwaved.

[jdolch]

5e Xanathar rules state that you *can* sleep in armour, but you won't rest as effectively if the armour is heavy. So there's the RAW answer to that question.

It's an optional rule and the book explicitly states that the DM can use this or not or change it however s/he likes. So it's not exactly RAW. More like a suggestion for a houserule. (See introduction of that chapter)

[MThurston]

The issue with wearing armor is hygiene and wear.

Leather bindings are going to wear out from being pulled on and slept in.

It also makes noise when rolling over.

Sores will start to happen from rubbing and tight fitting straps.

In a dangerous area you may very well keep your armor on. But for everyday travel, it would be good to take it off.

We don't have to worry about cooking, cleaning and showering in our roleplaying games but it is needed in real life.

I would drop the HD by one for a few days and then two if doing it for a week or longer with 1d4 being the lowest HD.

Example 1d8 would turn to 1d6 until a week had past and then it be 1d4.

[SpanielBear]

The issue with wearing armor is hygiene and wear.

Leather bindings are going to wear out from being pulled on and slept in.

It also makes noise when rolling over.

Sores will start to happen from rubbing and tight fitting straps.

In a dangerous area you may very well keep your armor on. But for everyday travel, it would be good to take it off.

We don't have to worry about cooking, cleaning and showering in our roleplaying games but it is needed in real life.

I would drop the HD by one for a few days and then two if doing it for a week or longer with 1d4 being the lowest HD.

Example 1d8 would turn to 1d6 until a week had past and then it be 1d4.


Prestidigitation and mending?


(I mean realistically you are absolutely right, but spells make a mockery of realism)

[MThurston]

Prestidigitation and mending?


(I mean realistically you are absolutely right, but spells make a mockery of realism)

Yes you are correct, but are the mages taking that to fix the front line fighters stuff.

[HappyDaze]

Did you like it? :smallbiggrin:

This thread has taken a wrong turn somewhere ...

To be honest, it was one of the most enjoyable things about that job.

[SpanielBear]

Yes you are correct, but are the mages taking that to fix the front line fighters stuff.

I mean not exclusively, but (e.g.) my character does tend to go into team dad mode in camp. It’s downtime and they’re cantrips, no real skin off his nose.

I mean you could play the party as being pushed to the chase and barely catching enough time for sleep and nothing else, but then we’re kind of going beyond just the inconvenience of sleeping in armour.

[darknite]

Sleeping in armor? It's done all the time in combat.

https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/514b44d769bedd9a44000009-1920-1280.jpg

It's those, "I wear armor at all times, including the inn I stay at between adventures" folks who get my goat.

[Laserlight]

To be honest, it was one of the most enjoyable things about that job.

ROFL!


I've kind of been hoping we'd be attacked while Feather is lounging in the bath with her armor and most weapons upstairs, as she can still use her sash as a whip, House of Flying Daggers style. But I haven't asked for it, since I'm pretty sure my DM doesn't want a scene which begins "Heavenly Feather, wearing only soap suds and jewelry, runs into the inn's main room..."

[rel]

My thinking is thus:

If you penalise or disallow resting because the party is in a dank dungeon or because it is raining or because they didn't pack enough tents AND blankets then penalising characters for sleeping in armour makes sense.
It is that kind of game.

If you never attack the characters kit (e.g. their spell component pouches, holy symbols, backpacks, etc), don't introduce penalties for difficult ground, bad smells and the like and generally never impose any kind of penalty on the players except when someone tries to sleep in armour then it comes across as singling out the people playing characters that use armour