Sorcerer Spell Synergy (and Catapult is Lethal)

[SKW05]

First post for years – hope I’m getting it right!
It is my first time playing as a 5E Sorcerer (Divine Soul build) so the limited number of spells known for the Sorcerer has got me investigating how to do the most with the least number of chosen spells. Equally, what spells synergise well with each other? A widely known example: the cantrip Friends and Disguise Self spell can be a wreckingingly powerful combo; disguise yourself as the big bad evil guy, go around his minions casting Friends on them, and watch as them all turn hostile toward their boss!

Couldn't seem to find one thread that had this in one place - especially for low level spell-work - so thought I'd note some of these things up. Hopefully I can persuade the worthies of this forum to add to the list (or tell me when I'm wrong!).

[SKW05]

Catapult + Flour + Firebolt = Fireball

For just 20 copper pieces!

Catapult at level 1 can fire anything not 'worn or carried' for a healthy 3D8 bludgeon damage. The weight just has to be 5 pounds or under. Of course, firing oil flasks, caltrops and (if you can afford the hefty price) Alchemist Fire flasks are all well-covered ideas. However, looking at the Trade Goods list, it is extraordinary how cheap a sack of flour is...

Why flour? Even if you miss clobbering your foe with a ballistic bag of flour, you can aim it so the next place it will strike will be the floor behind said foe. Choke and blind them in a cloud of flour!

But the best bit? A cloud of flour is not just flammable - it is highly explosive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_UcktErOy0

If you try it at home, the gene pool will thank you. :smallwink:

This works on both RAW and RAI, as far as I can see. Indeed, it works with any other cantrips that start fire, but since Firebolt specifically states it ignites anything flammable....

There is one grey area; it is the spell that causes the 3D8 damage, so does the actual packet of flour rupture into a cloud? It could be judged that it does not, unless you prepare your flour-bomb in one of the specific items that 'shatter on impact', such as a glass vial. Since these are also fairly cheap, its still hardly much of a drawback.

Obviously, DMs can nerf this one by ruling it's too damp, windy or that local flour mills can't grind up flour to the fine texture needed (you could sneakily grind the flour up further, with that ruling - mage hand, unseen servant or your own two hands).

Be careful to fill in your DM and be careful how much flour you toss around - if you do the full 5 pounds, then you are probably going to blow up yourself, flatten every nearby building and cause total TPK.

For a level 1 Fireball, I think it’s worth it!

*This is a good point to give flour some general love - while also an explosive (!) it can reveal invisible creatures, secret passages you might miss (throw a little in the air and look for drafts!) makes an emergency glue and is a light-weight ration – just a few uses for very little money*

[SKW05]

Shape Water Cantrip

Everyone should have this cantrip - I think it is just awesome. First time I read it, I didn't really understand it - I think it’s a common mistake, to read it as highly situational. How do you use it if there is no water around?

However, if you get creative with the option to form into ‘simple shapes and animate' you can ignore the idea you need to constantly find water - you can take it with you! Animate it to follow you and the animation lasts for 1 hour - awesome! A 5ft cube of water is a hell of a lot of water to have squishing around behind you, but it seems allowed under RAW and RAI.

I animated mine to have the same kind of movement as a gelatinous cube and then used the ability to change the water's colour or opacity to resemble said cube: hey presto, one gelatinous cube familiar, to scare the natives with!

Of course, the real reason to bother with this cantrip is that you can shape the water. Anyone fancy a 5ft wall of water at whim between you and enemy bowmen/casters? I know I do!

Its action heavy, but you can even freeze the wall and change the opacity - change it to an opacity of smoky quartz with a silvered finished, and 1 mirror-shaded 5ft high ice wall. You can see out, but they can't see you at all. Now you can blast at will!

Stuff wasting a spell slot on Mage Armour or Shield...

[SKW05]

Create/Destroy Water & Shape Water.

Create/Destroy Water is a cleric spell - one that seems almost completely useless. Sure, it can create drinking water, but otherwise you can only put out fires with it, or get rid of 30ft cube of fog. Hardly any use in having this prepared at all...

And how much water does having 10 gallons of water fall in 30ft square in 6 seconds? This is not fun to calculate - not remotely. If it were a pool it would be filled with roughly half a centimetre of water. I'd rate this as useless - not even enough to obscure an archer’s line of sight, it seems - I'd never waste a spell slot on it normally.

However, with Shape Water, things are quite different... you can animate or freeze any water you see in a 30ft range. If you DM won't let you use the animate part to have a handy cube of water following you around (squish squish) then this spell returns all that utility, and more. Use it to rain over those pesky archers, then (as long as you can see them) freeze their quiver of arrows together in one lump. Turn the string of their bow into a solid piece of ice! Turn the ground to black ice surrounding them, and watch them dance.

Depending how lenient your DM is, you might also be able to argue you can freeze your foe's boots to the ground - the boots aren't living (even the smelliest!) so in RAW terms, *technically* the water you are freezing has no creature in it... I'm not sure I'd allow it myself, though.

Perhaps the better option is to animate the water into tiny, tiny droplets - which is a lovely, thick fog!

A 5ft square cube of fog for 1 hour that I don't have to concentrate on? Sounds good to me! Somewhat heavy on the actions (if you are not a sorcerer with quicken) for a very small fog cube of course, but it is highly targeted, allowing you to 'switch off' 1 particular target with great accuracy. Plus I see no reason why you couldn't drop a Cloud of Daggers right on top of that little blinding fog...

Of course, you can do all of the same as the above if you have Shape Water and (my new favourite spell) Catapult. 5 pounds of water converts to roughly 2.25 litres - wallop that orc in the face for 3D8 bludgeon damage, and if it lives, turn the resultant spray into blinding fog. Muwhahaha!

[SKW05]

Catapult and Prestidigitation

Afraid you might run out of stuff to launch with your Catapult spell? Prestidigitation has an answer, especially if the ability to quicken spells is up your mystical sleeves.

Prestidigitation can create you a non-magical trinket that lasts until the end of your next turn - with the list of trinkets from the PHB and a discussion with your DM, you should be able to find out what you will/won't be allowed to create. A jar of caltrops is probably too much to expect, but I recall one of the trinkets being a jar of live spiders/nail clippings - that sounds amusing! It all depends what the DM allows as trinket, but with Griffon Grease etc. in the trinket list, you might be able to argue yourself something that also grants some utility too.

I'd be very surprised if you ever do run out of rocks and general detritus to throw, in reality. Still, Prestidigitation is just packed with great role-play abilities on top anyway: create a copy of the king's seal, to convince the guards to let you by. Or make that BBEG soil her pants, with extra convincing smell - I've heard that trick is very popular for some reason...

[SKW05]

Prestidigitation & Minor Illusion

Minor Illusion is awesome; I'm saying nothing new there, as its widely acknowledged. Cast an illusion of a 5ft wall in front of yourself during battle - force the enemy to use an investigation check, or attack you with disadvantage! Thoroughly cool spell, with so many imaginative applications - it can be easy to overlook the (barely pronounceable) Prestidigitation when looking at Minor Illusion.

However, a Minor Illusion image *specifically* cannot include any sensory effects, and (though not stated in the spell description) most DMs will judge Minor Illusion cannot create any moving image either.

Prestidigitation can cover that shortfall rather neatly, as it can create a 'harmless sensory effect' of the same duration. The range is less generous - 10 ft. - but fancy creating the illusion that the ground in front of you is glowing red-hot? Minor Illusion can create the red effect, but Prestidigitation can make the air feel hot as well.

Casting these two in conjunction and frankly you've got most of the 3rd level spell Major Image under your belt, but without using a single spell slot. Definitely worth thinking about, no?

[SKW05]

Spirit Guardians & Sanctuary

A famous combo, and for good reason! Cast Spirit Guardians, and any enemy within 15ft of you gets slowed and 3D8 damage on a failed wisdom save. Very cool.

If you cast Sanctuary on yourself afterwards (and it’s a bonus action spell) then most DMs will allow you to maintain the sanctuary and spirit guardians together - you can't perform a hostile act once in Sanctuary, but you guardians can do that for you, and Sanctuary is going make you damn hard to hit. A devastating combo.

Additionally, there are actually plenty of worthwhile things you can do without breaking Sanctuary - use the 'assist' action to give you fighters advantage, perhaps? Healing or buffing your allies? Why not?

[SKW05]

Booming Blade & Lightning Lure

I haven't really looked into melee Sorcerers much. But this is clearly great for melee Sorcerers with Quicken abilities - punish your opponent for moving, and then force them to move! Add further damage them if they get close - very nice.

Throw Green Flame Blade into the mix for some chaos - and works with the rather sweet Shadow Blade spell too.

EDIT - this is wrong, apparently Booming Blade cannot be triggered by forced movement, I'm told...

[SKW05]

That's what I have so far researched - I haven't looked into multi-classing yet, or clever tricks you can get with feats. I know Polymorph deserves a whole thread to itself, but our campaign is not yet at that level - please post any that I'm missing, especially if lower level!

[JackPhoenix]

Catapult + Flour + Firebolt = Fireball

*sigh* That "explosion" is just burning flour. It's not proper explosion, dust explosion needs proper enviroment and fuel-air mixture, something you won't just achieve by throwing a bag of flour at someone. You may be able to set something on fire like that, if it's extremely flammable (the flour is gone too fast), but that's about it. It's more or less harmless.


Booming Blade & Lightning Lure

I haven't really looked into melee Sorcerers much. But this is clearly great for melee Sorcerers with Quicken abilities - punish your opponent for moving, and then force them to move! Add further damage them if they get close - very nice.

Forced movement doesn't trigger BB.

[Spiritchaser]

Many of these are awesome... but:

Before starting my latest character, the DM clearly stated as a condition of my playing, and just so we had a clear understanding, that I was not to try and mix magic and physics to provide powers above and beyond what the spirit and level of the spell would include. I’m ok with this and based on some past behaviour I probably had it coming... but I would just caution that not every DM will have the time for these... really wonderful ideas.

[nickl_2000]

Forced movement doesn't trigger BB.

Yup, it's the same with infestation. However, booming blade and any long term point spell work well. In your turn, booming blade them, then ran flaming sphere into them.

They stay they, they get burned from the fire. Move and they get boomed. My druid and the gishy Sorcerer in my party do this often.

[lunaticfringe]

*sigh* That "explosion" is just burning flour. It's not proper explosion, dust explosion needs proper enviroment and fuel-air mixture, something you won't just achieve by throwing a bag of flour at someone. You may be able to set something on fire like that, if it's extremely flammable (the flour is gone too fast), but that's about it. It's more or less harmless.



Forced movement doesn't trigger BB.

Flour sacks were also made of sturdy cloth (so as not to easily rupture) and generally weighed more than 5 pounds during their period of use. Small paper sacks didn't show up till the 1950s. Before heavy cloth sack people used barrels & casks.

[sithlordnergal]

Chill Touch is probably my favorite cantrip. It deals a respectable d8 damage, has a 120ft range, is an attack roll, and has two very powerful riders. The first rider makes the target unable to regain hit points for one round. This shuts down healing spells and, more importantly, regeneration. The second rider only effects undead, but is even stronger. An undead effected by this cantrip has "disadvantage on attack rolls against you". Note the "attack rolls" part. As in more then one roll.

This is basically a stronger Vicious Mockery when fighting undead. I have made great use of it against Vampires and similar undead while playing a Sorcerer/Bard..

EDIT: As for Catapult, grab yourself vials of Acid, Holy Water, Alchemist Fire, Oil, Caltrops, Bags of Ballbearings, and Nets. Then fling those items at enemies.

[Ganymede]

Prestidigitation can create you a non-magical trinket that lasts until the end of your next turn - with the list of trinkets from the PHB and a discussion with your DM, you should be able to find out what you will/won't be allowed to create.

The use of the term "trinket" in the prestidigitation spell is not a reference to the list of Trinkets in the PHB. It is instead trinket in the general sense: a bauble or tchotchke. You can't use Prestigitation to make letters from your loved ones or the remains of once-living creatures.

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/716020874084634624




If you cast Sanctuary on yourself afterwards (and it’s a bonus action spell) then most DMs will allow you to maintain the sanctuary and spirit guardians together - you can't perform a hostile act once in Sanctuary, but you guardians can do that for you, and Sanctuary is going make you damn hard to hit. A devastating combo.

Sanctuary ends as soon as you do damage to someone else, something that Spirit Guardians is guaranteed to do to the first hostile target in the spell's area. You could perhaps deter melee attackers with the Spirit Guardians and deter ranged attackers with the Sanctuary, but they do not synergize in the way you suggest here.


On further reading, lots of this stuff is pretty janky, either relying on a very charitable DM or simply not allowed under the rules.

[JackPhoenix]

Sanctuary ends as soon as you do damage to someone else, something that Spirit Guardians is guaranteed to do to the first hostile target in the spell's area. You could perhaps deter melee attackers with the Spirit Guardians and deter ranged attackers with the Sanctuary, but they do not synergize in the way you suggest here.

Nope. Sanctuary ends when you make an attack or cast a spell. If you've put long-term damaging spell into place and the enemy takes damage from it, it won't end the Sanctuary. Neither will dragon's breath or similar effects... it's neither attack (no attack roll involved) nor a spell.

[iTreeby]

If you hold concentration on Catapult you can redirect an arrow or bolt shot at your party. Pretty nifty.

[Ganymede]

Nope. Sanctuary ends when you make an attack or cast a spell. If you've put long-term damaging spell into place and the enemy takes damage from it, it won't end the Sanctuary. Neither will dragon's breath or similar effects... it's neither attack (no attack roll involved) nor a spell.

The spell language was updated last month.

[New] Sanctuary (p. 273). The final
sentence now reads, “If the warded
creature makes an attack, casts a spell
that affects an enemy, or deals damage
to another creature, this spell ends.”

http://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/PH-Errata.pdf

[ImproperJustice]

Scatter + Far Spell + any persistent aoe or control effect


Been using Scatter a fair bit lately.
It’s a verbal only, and with Far Spell you can target up to 5 targets in a 60’ radius centered on you.
Then you can teleport this targets to anywhere you can see that is unoccupied within 120’.

My Sorc was grappled in an Evard’s Tentacles. Used it to move myself, and a buddy, out, and three of the bad guys into the tentacle field.

Bad Guy up on some high terrain feature or behind a damaging / debuff wall of something?
Well how about you move him into the wall and flank him with the two biggest nastiest heavies on your side?
Bonus points if they have Sentinel.

We had some bad guys unleash a mindless swarm of killer beetles on us. I moved the swarm closer to the bad guys, and put them as close to it as possible.

Enemy Shield Wall? How about a shield hole, or just move your team into their back ranks.

A Chasm or nasty terrain feature?
Move the enemy up against it and your shovey shield master fighters to the right side.
Pack bad guys around your Spirit Guardian Cleric who is slows as molasses.

Or just hold your action and put a few bad guys in perfect Fireball formation.

[JackPhoenix]

The spell language was updated last month.

[New] Sanctuary (p. 273). The final
sentence now reads, “If the warded
creature makes an attack, casts a spell
that affects an enemy, or deals damage
to another creature, this spell ends.”

http://media.wizards.com/2018/dnd/downloads/PH-Errata.pdf

Hm, I knew my PHB is ancient, but I was assuming the online source I use to check these things quickly was updated. My bad.

[Ganymede]

Hm, I knew my PHB is ancient, but I was assuming the online source I use to check these things quickly was updated. My bad.

Yeah, I went back to check after I read your comment to be sure, and not all the various online sources were updated.

[SKW05]

*sigh* That "explosion" is just burning flour.

Well perhaps there was a thread discussing this detail that I missed.

Anyway, as I'm rather in the business of COSHH and hazardous storage, I'd disagree - the rate/speed at which the flour burns causes a shockwave (Overpressure) to occur, especially in confined spaces.

I don't want to derail the thread, though: it's not like this isn't all on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_explosion


either relying on a very charitable DM or simply not allowed under the rules.

But you would need a DM to judge on any spell scenario that goes beyond 100% RAW, no?

And I haven't seen any that aren't specifically allowed under RAW, except the Booming Blade one (my bad there!). For the example of Sanctuary and Spiritual Guardians combo, the point is that it is not you technically doing the damage - I've read plenty of threads on it, and it really seems down to the DMs judgement, as the rules will allow it.

Thanks for linking to J Crawford - I wish he was a tad more explicit on this stuff; the qualifier 'little' doesn't necessarily exclude 'heavy', like a lump of lead of paperweight. I'm guessing he judges bauble to refer to small, simple and fairly cheap items.

lunaticfringe - just its sold in a sack doesn't mean you have to keep it in one - nothing to stop you putting flour in a different container.

[Ganymede]

For the example of Sanctuary and Spiritual Guardians combo, the point is that it is not you technically doing the damage

"The fireball is doing the damage, not me!"

That isn't a judgment call. It is simply incorrect.

[Damon_Tor]

Catapult + Enlarge/Reduce

1. Get a 40 pound cannonball. (Normally Catapult would require a level 8 spell slot to chuck this bad boy for 10d8 damage.)
2. Shrink the cannonball using Enlarge/Reduce. It now weighs 5 pounds.
3. Use Catapult at level 1 to throw the now 5 pound object
4. Release concentration on Enlarge/Reduce while the cannonball is in the air, returning it to its regular weight of 40 pounds before it strikes
5. Logically, it should now deal 10d8 damage.

[JackPhoenix]

Well perhaps there was a thread discussing this detail that I missed.

Anyway, as I'm rather in the business of COSHH and hazardous storage, I'd disagree - the rate/speed at which the flour burns causes a shockwave (Overpressure) to occur, especially in confined spaces.

Which is kinda the point: you need confined space to get the shockwave do anything, and you'll need a proper dispersal of the flour/dust: too small concentration, and the fire won't spread, too high concentration, and there's not enough oxygen to cause explosion. You won't achieve that by just throwing a bag of flour at a target.

It's not like the same wiki article you're linking doesn't explain that. I wish they've included more informations about the experimental setup in the middle of the article, though.

You'll get more reliable results from using flasks of oil as ammo... you'll have guaranteed 5 extra fire damage, and you won't need to argue with your GM.


Catapult + Enlarge/Reduce

1. Get a 40 pound cannonball. (Normally Catapult would require a level 8 spell slot to chuck this bad boy for 10d8 damage.)
2. Shrink the cannonball using Enlarge/Reduce. It now weighs 5 pounds.
3. Use Catapult at level 1 to throw the now 5 pound object
4. Release concentration on Enlarge/Reduce while the cannonball is in the air, returning it to its regular weight of 40 pounds before it strikes
5. Logically, it should now deal 10d8 damage.

"Logically", the sudden increase in the mass cause just as sudden decrease in velocity, because the kinetic energy is the same: damage doesn't depend on the weight of the object, but on the spell slot used. Even if you can shoot 40 lb cannonballs with 8th level slot, you'll get the exact same damage from 1 pound object. It's likely the cannonball would just fall on the ground on the spot, because the target object is suddenly too heavy for the magic to affect, and the spell doesn't obey our laws of physics: the object shoots in a straight line, not in a ballistic arc, and suddenly loses all velocity at the end of the spell's range. And any impact with any creature will stop the projectile; a rat would stop 40 pound cannonball just like iron golem would stop 1 pound vase.

[Damon_Tor]

"Logically", the sudden increase in the mass cause just as sudden decrease in velocity, because the kinetic energy is the same: damage doesn't depend on the weight of the object, but on the spell slot used. Even if you can shoot 40 lb cannonballs with 8th level slot, you'll get the exact same damage from 1 pound object. It's likely the cannonball would just fall on the ground on the spot, because the target object is suddenly too heavy for the magic to affect, and the spell doesn't obey our laws of physics: the object shoots in a straight line, not in a ballistic arc, and suddenly loses all velocity at the end of the spell's range. And any impact with any creature will stop the projectile; a rat would stop 40 pound cannonball just like iron golem would stop 1 pound vase.

Oooh, good point. So instead of taking a 40 pound cannonball and shrinking it, I'll take a 10 ounce ball bearing and enlarge it to 5 pounds, fling it, then release concentration. So while the cannonball lost velocity proportionately to the mass gained it stands to reason the ball bearing would GAIN velocity. This is going to do even MORE damage than the cannonball because it's focused on a smaller area. Thanks man, that's even better, good catch.

[Ganymede]

Oooh, good point. So instead of taking a 40 pound cannonball and shrinking it, I'll take a 10 ounce ball bearing and enlarge it to 5 pounds, fling it, then release concentration. So while the cannonball lost velocity proportionately to the mass gained it stands to reason the ball bearing would GAIN velocity. This is going to do even MORE damage than the cannonball because it's focused on a smaller area. Thanks man, that's even better, good catch.

The spell doesn't really work like that.

If we assume damage inflicted is based on the force of the projectile, then increasing (or decreasing) weight doesn't do anything. Remember, the shape, size, and mass of the object propelled has no bearing on the damage inflicted; a one-pound padlock does the same damage as a five-pound ingot of lead. It isn't as if the spell is calculating how much force it must apply to an object to an object of a specific mass and shape.

(As another example, imagine flinging a rapier pommel first, assuming it will have to fling it much harder than it would in order to do as much damage as if you flung it blade first, then using some external force to reorient the blade forward. You're not going to inflict more damage that way because you can't fluff your way out of breaking your story limitation on damage.)

The damage cap per level is a story limitation, not a physical limitation. You could definitely fluff your use of Catapult as if your PC is using his background knowledge of physics to maximize damage, tho.

[Mellack]

Anytime you try to put real-world physics into the game it is not going to go well. The game world does not follow the same rules as our world. Magic breaks our laws of physics. Dragons wouldn't be able to fly and Giants wouldn't be able to stand. A piece of paper on a desk automatically catches on fire if hit with a fire bolt. If my character is holding that same sheet of paper, it is now impossible for a fire bolt to burn it. Given this, just don't go trying to game the system.

[SleepIncarnate]

Booming Blade & Lightning Lure

I haven't really looked into melee Sorcerers much. But this is clearly great for melee Sorcerers with Quicken abilities - punish your opponent for moving, and then force them to move! Add further damage them if they get close - very nice.

Throw Green Flame Blade into the mix for some chaos - and works with the rather sweet Shadow Blade spell too.

EDIT - this is wrong, apparently Booming Blade cannot be triggered by forced movement, I'm told...

While it can't work with forced movement, there is a way to force the movement. Of course, it requires either the sorcerer to take the magic initiate feat in bard or a bard to take magic initiate in sorcerer or warlock. It also requires the war caster feat.

Dissonant Whispers + Booming Blade + War Caster

DW causes a fear effect, which mechanically counts as moving under their own will. As such, you cast DW, and thanks to WC, you can cast BB as your AoO. As a sorcerer without the feat, you can quicken BB and then cast DW as your main action.

[JackPhoenix]

Oooh, good point. So instead of taking a 40 pound cannonball and shrinking it, I'll take a 10 ounce ball bearing and enlarge it to 5 pounds, fling it, then release concentration. So while the cannonball lost velocity proportionately to the mass gained it stands to reason the ball bearing would GAIN velocity. This is going to do even MORE damage than the cannonball because it's focused on a smaller area. Thanks man, that's even better, good catch.

Unfortunately, that ALSO doesn't work, not only because 10 ounces is under the minimum weight Catapult requires, but also because the damage ONLY cares about the spell slot used, not the weight, density, shape or size of the object. Big, fluffy 5 pound pillow will cause the same damage as 1 pound super-pointy tungsten spike when thrown with the same spell slot.


While it can't work with forced movement, there is a way to force the movement. Of course, it requires either the sorcerer to take the magic initiate feat in bard or a bard to take magic initiate in sorcerer or warlock. It also requires the war caster feat.

Dissonant Whispers + Booming Blade + War Caster

DW causes a fear effect, which mechanically counts as moving under their own will. As such, you cast DW, and thanks to WC, you can cast BB as your AoO. As a sorcerer without the feat, you can quicken BB and then cast DW as your main action.

DW doesn't trigger BB, because while you're moving using your own reaction, you're still not moving willingly. It allows OA (because you're using reaction to move) (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/04/08/would-the-movement-caused-by-dissonant-whispers-be-willing-or-unwilling-movement/), but not BB (because you're forced to move by the spell) (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/05/28/would-you-take-damage-from-booming-blade-if-you-fail-a-save-against-dissonant-whispers-and-move-away/).

[SleepIncarnate]

DW doesn't trigger BB, because while you're moving using your own reaction, you're still not moving willingly. It allows OA (because you're using reaction to move) (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/04/08/would-the-movement-caused-by-dissonant-whispers-be-willing-or-unwilling-movement/), but not BB (because you're forced to move by the spell) (https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/05/28/would-you-take-damage-from-booming-blade-if-you-fail-a-save-against-dissonant-whispers-and-move-away/).

Maybe not directly, but the enemy is then forced to move back into melee range on their next turn, thus triggering the rider when they do so. You either lock an enemy down away from you for a full turn as they wait for the rider to fade, or you cause the rider to go off as they move back into range with you.

[JackPhoenix]

Maybe not directly, but the enemy is then forced to move back into melee range on their next turn, thus triggering the rider when they do so. You either lock an enemy down away from you for a full turn as they wait for the rider to fade, or you cause the rider to go off as they move back into range with you.

Assuming the enemy doesn't have another target in range or ranged option. And they can always ready action for when you move next to them.

[Man_Over_Game]

Light + Arrow. Make a long distance flare to scout out the deep dark tunnel ahead.

Shape Water + Water Walking = Shape Staircase.

Prestidigitation + Disguise Self = Look AND smell like someone.

Prestidigitation + Shape Water = Create Snowcone.

Minor Illusion + Mage Hand/theft = "I did not steal nuthin'! See?"

Mending + Breaking and Entering

Mold Earth= Create Cover.

[SKW05]

You won't achieve that by just throwing a bag of flour at a target.

You sound like you are assuming the spell doesn't act on the object thrown; J Crawford already confirmed that Catapult does act on the object thrown, though. This is why you can throw oil flasks - Crawford confirmed they would break open.


That isn't a judgment call. It is simply incorrect

Wow - I see that there really is no point debating it further if the false equivalences are starting; sure, in your world, Sanctuary doesn't work with Spiritual Guardians. You win.


Minor Illusion + Mage Hand/theft = "I did not steal nuthin'! See?"

I LOVE this. :smallbiggrin:



Another combo I was kicking around in my head: Crown of Madness and Sanctuary. Use Crown of Madness to make an enemy attack someone, and use Sanctuary to make their likely attack fail.

Thing is... Crown of Madness is still such an awful, awful spell. Casting nearly any other spell is still a better use of your time than Crown of Madness.

Perhaps Crown of Madness can have small utility with spoiling an multi-attacking enemy's action? And I suppose Crown of Madness could be useful in conjunction with Booming Blade - but so much work to make Crown of Madness even half-decent... Frankly, there are better cantrips.


QUERY: Booming Blade, Green Flame Blade etc - can they stack with Spiritual Weapon?


Casting Time 1 bonus action
Range 60 feet
Components V S
Duration 1 minute

You create a floating weapon that lasts for the duration or until you cast this spell again. It can take any form you choose. When you cast the spell, you can make a melee spell attack against a creature within 5 feet of the weapon.

The difference in range between BB and the Spiritual Weapon is a problem, but you could move in range. I'm not sure it would be really that potent as a combo, even. I mean, why not just use a different damage cantrip and use Spiritual Weapon as a bonus action? Thoughts?

[JackPhoenix]

You sound like you are assuming the spell doesn't act on the object thrown; J Crawford already confirmed that Catapult does act on the object thrown, though. This is why you can throw oil flasks - Crawford confirmed they would break open.

"Break open" and "break open in a way that achieves optimal particle concentration for dust explosion" are two completely different things. If I throw a bag of flour on a wall, it will break open, but it'll just create big mess. You can see it in your video: he wasn't just throwing a bag of flour into the fire, he was throwing loose flour from the shovel to disperse it in the air before it came into contact with the fire.


QUERY: Booming Blade, Green Flame Blade etc - can they stack with Spiritual Weapon?

The difference in range between BB and the Spiritual Weapon is a problem, but you could move in range. I'm not sure it would be really that potent as a combo, even. I mean, why not just use a different damage cantrip and use Spiritual Weapon as a bonus action? Thoughts?

That's the standard use of Spiritual Weapon. You use it to attack as BA while you're using your action for something else. Cantrips, weapon attacks, higher level spells (after the turn you cast it), whatever you want. You can keep dodging and use Spiritual Weapon for attack, as unlike many other BA options, it doesn't require you to take particular action.

[Man_Over_Game]

"Break open" and "break open in a way that achieves optimal particle concentration for dust explosion" are two completely different things. If I throw a bag of flour on a wall, it will break open, but it'll just create big mess. You can see it in your video: he wasn't just throwing a bag of flour into the fire, he was throwing loose flour from the shovel to disperse it in the air before it came into contact with the fire.

Guys? Y'all have matches and lighters. Go in your cabinets, put some flour in your sink and set it on fire.

That really isn't the point though. Whether or not 3d8 damage is considered "explosive" on the object or not isn't defined. For all you know, a DM could just rule that the damage straight up disintegrates your item.

Ask your DMs.

The spell doesn't care about weight, causes the item to move in a straight line just to fall as soon as the spell is over (ignoring things like Velocity or Momentum), and works just as well with any item, regardless of shape or size. So trying to "logic" a solution in either direction is just going to make us run in circles.

Ask your DMs.

[Ganymede]

Wow - I see that there really is no point debating it further if the false equivalences are starting; sure, in your world, Sanctuary doesn't work with Spiritual Guardians. You win.


I might not have been clear. I was saying that, under the rules, a spellcaster inflicting damage with Spirit Guardians will lose the benefit of Sanctuary.

I was not saying that you can't play it some other way.