Mutants and Masterminds Query

[Haruspex]

As above. I've heard some things about it, but the company website is hardly going to be objective about its own product. So if any Playgrounders have played this RPG, what do you think? How does it compare to DnD (other than the different setting of course)

[Green Bean]

It's a really enjoyable system. It's biggest feature is its simplicity; it will duplicate pretty much any superpower you can think of without overcomplicated rules.

[OzymandiasVolt]

One of the best things ever created by mankind. (The species, not the wrestler)

[Pauwel]

In my honest opinion, Mutants and Masterminds makes Dungeons and Dragons and the rest of the d20 system look like crap. It is absolutely awesome; not just at superhero games, but also at fantasy, sci-fi and many other genres.

What are you waiting for? Go on and buy it!

(Although you should stay away from the first edition, in my opinion it actually isn't very good at all. Second edition is made of awesomesauce, though.)

[fireinthedust]

I compare it to DnD all the time: why doesn't DnD do *this* as well as Mnm, DnD is so unbalanced and clunky compared to MnM, DnD why can't you be more like your brother...

It's great, so that I translate DnD modules into MnM (I'm working on Pathfinder #1 right now, and run a campaign for a homebrew adventure here on the boards; as well as being in an MnM game).

It breaks down the mechanics of DnD to see what's really going on, and designs effects based on that. It's classless in that you don't have set parameters for what you can do: you get d20 characters, and can have a "wizard", but you build up their game stats based on effect around the concept, rather than taking a concept as the stats and munching that along pre-determined levels.

so if you want a character who's "magical" to fly around and shoot "magic bolts" you can; or a hero who's "a mutant" to fly around and shoot "mutant energy bolts", you can. They have the same effect, so you buy the effect (fly and bolts) rather than the concept (wizard vs. mutant).

you can have whatever concept your GM allows, and build your stats to make it happen: you can have an armored wizard, a stone giant wizard, an illithid paladin, a robot who transforms into a car. If they all do +8 damage with their best attack, they're even (sort of).

clear as mud? it's effect, not concept, so you can have whatever concept you want (though it made me look at DnD and go "wow, that's unbalanced" for a number of items).

I like the freedom, the simplicity, with the same effect and gameplay d20 systems have.

go for 2nd edition, btw.

[OzymandiasVolt]

Of course it requires DM adjudication since you can also make someone who is completely and totally immortal. Or make someone who can summon 5 million (not kidding) minions as a standard action.

Not that I've ever done such a thing.

*cough*

[Nerd-o-rama]

Yes, but at most typical PLs/point values, those characters won't be able to do much else even if the DM does allow them.

I mean, would anyone complain if someone wanted to play Captain Jack Harkness or Mr. Immortal? I wouldn't.

THe five million minions thing might get annoying, though.

[Green Bean]

Of course it requires DM adjudication since you can also make someone who is completely and totally immortal. Or make someone who can summon 5 million (not kidding) minions as a standard action.

Not that I've ever done such a thing.

*cough*

Well, luckily the designers seem to have had thoughts along the same lines. What I really like about 2e is that the 'problem powers' so to speak had sidebars explaining why they are overpowered, and how an unbalanced character would use them

[Hzurr]

I played it (3rd ed, I think), and I had a lot of fun.

You do have to be careful, though. M&M is much more open to munchkining than most other d20s, but as long as you have players who aren't all about the number crunching, and who honestly have a good time role-playing, M&M is a great system.

Also, as long as characters don't go crazy and munchkin/powergame, the game is actually suprisingly balanced. A friend and I had created characters with equal point buy, his was a telekentic and telepathic (think Jean Grey), and mind was an experimental robot who could create duplicates of himself and replicate other people's powers. We sat down and looked at it once, and realized that in a fight to the death between us, whoever won initiative would win the fight, because we were so equal that the only edge to tip the balance would be the initiative roll.

Keeping track of wounds and things like that feels a little bit odd after being used to the HP system, but it's not overly complicated.

[Haruspex]

Thanks for the replies. People here seem to like it.

[Pauwel]

I played it (3rd ed, I think), and I had a lot of fun.

You do have to be careful, though. M&M is much more open to munchkining than most other d20s, but as long as you have players who aren't all about the number crunching, and who honestly have a good time role-playing, M&M is a great system.

Also, as long as characters don't go crazy and munchkin/powergame, the game is actually suprisingly balanced. A friend and I had created characters with equal point buy, his was a telekentic and telepathic (think Jean Grey), and mind was an experimental robot who could create duplicates of himself and replicate other people's powers. We sat down and looked at it once, and realized that in a fight to the death between us, whoever won initiative would win the fight, because we were so equal that the only edge to tip the balance would be the initiative roll.

Keeping track of wounds and things like that feels a little bit odd after being used to the HP system, but it's not overly complicated.

There is no third edition, and there probably won't be one for quite some time. Sourcebooks for second edition are being scheduled well into 2009, if I remember correctly.

About balanced characters, I've had the same experience. I once had a deathmatch for fun between my friend's character (huge kung fu soldier with assault rifles and such) and mine (a mutant with the ability to alter the physical composition of his body; increasing density, elasticity, turning into liquid/gas/plasma etc.). It was extremely close; my friend's character won because of one extremely powerful attack gained from use of a hero point as well as a critical hit. He even had a fairly unbalanced power (Variable Power Structure, lets him choose 10 ranks of feats each round, represents versatile combat training), but it was still a lucky shot that took me out.

Oh, and on the Toughness system: The best damage mechanic I have ever seen. It's not the most realistic, because it doesn't try to be, but it's still very elegant and dramatic, and it just fits heroic combat much better than hit points.

(Sorry if I sound like a raving fanboy, if I didn't I wouldn't be true to myself.)

[Dairun Cates]

A bit hard to grasp at first since some of their methods go completely against convention, but once you've learned the system, it's insanely streamlined and slick. It's also oddly one of the more balanced point buy systems out there (still easily breakable, but you HAVE to try).

[fireinthedust]

breakability: depends on the other players. it's easy to keep track of what's going on, so GMs can compensate when creating plots for the heroes. DMs can demand drawbacks like powerless. I heard of someone with Immunity: Damage (physical/energy), but it caused hideous pain (nauseate) that incapacitated him.


Toughness: it's realistic. if someone hits you with a sword you either go down or not. incapacitated or up, though minor wounds add up to wittle your ultimate resistance to hits. Hulk or Superman have a buffer and various thresholds to "stack the deck" (or dieroll... load the die?) against most damage sources, but the same general principal applies.
Basically it's better than having so many Hit Points your PC can stab himself through the chest with a longsword to bolster intimidate checks ("it's only 1d8, I can't be killed!"). You're up, you're down, you shrug it off heroically, you move on.