Choice of 13 in all stats to start? (Or making the dumbest MC char ever)

[ToastyTobasco]

Our DM gave us an interesting option for character creation. We could roll for stats but only once and he would watch it all, point buy, or all 13's. I was too nervous to roll as I have crap luck. I thought all 13's would be a sub-par start and I dont think anyone could start with a 16 in any stat with Racial bonuses.

What I first noticed is that this actually made vanilla Human a much more attractive option, but what was funny was noticing multiclassing rules. This character could do MC every level, never knowing what to settle on. Sadly couldnt be level 2 in everything with there being twelve classes. Probably not viable in any serious manner but I am curious how crazy you can get with just 2-3 levels in a solid handful of classes with starter subclass features unlocking then. Could be a great skill monkey. ASI's would be an issue but maybe talk to DM about fudging it for fun if you never go to 4 in any class.

This is moreso a thread for some dumb fun and would like to see some ridiculous ideas. Feel free to add backstory to them. They could be NPC's in someone's game.


Ideas:

Wiz2/Cleric2/Bard2/Pal2/War2/Sorc2/Barb2
Absolute Meyhem. Divination raging tempest cleric inspiring allies while smiting in the name of their fey patron and accidentally wild surging on a quickened Bless. Might want 5 in pally for second attack

Paladin2/Druid X/ Monk X
Shapeshifting Smiting Monks. Bandit watches in horror as a cat flurry punches his friend and they explode with holy light.

Lore BardX/Oathbreaker X
Summon army of the dead and inspire them. Nothing says Metal better than an army of undead back-up dancers. Necrodancer anyone?

BarbarianX/ Shadow Monk 6/ Assassin Rogue X with grappler feat
Str focus, expertise athletics. Teleports behind a guard, rages and dashes up a wall with the poor bastard for the mother of all bodyslams.

[MeimuHakurei]

Wizard 1/Warlock 1/Bard 1/Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/Monk 1/Rogue 1/Sorcerer 1/Paladin 1/Druid 1/Cleric 1/Ranger 1


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZCIh_3b5K8

[ImproperJustice]

I had the same Abserd thought myself.

I mean, you can be the undisputed lord of cantrips, and low level rituals.
Then you can some cool skill and action proficiency things.

[Kane0]

Ancients Paladin 7 + Hexblade 5 + AT Rogue 3 + War Wiz 2 + BM Fighter 3
"I'm a Gish guys!"

[ToastyTobasco]

Wizard 1/Warlock 1/Bard 1/Barbarian 1/Fighter 1/Monk 1/Rogue 1/Sorcerer 1/Paladin 1/Druid 1/Cleric 1/Ranger 1


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZCIh_3b5K8

This is great.

[jdolch]

Terrible Idea on so many levels. Go point buy. But have fun building some ridiculous chars, just don't expect something powerful to suddenly appear.

[Blood of Gaea]

You could just make a support Bard. Leverage Jack of All Trades to be pretty decent at every skill, use buffs, minor illusion, and bardic inspiration in combat, and pick your expertise skills to fill in what your party is weak in.

And make sure you pick up ritual caster if your party doesn't have a Wizard or Tomelock.

[Mjolnirbear]

Assuming all 14's from Human, Bounded Accuracy still lets you hit baddies.

Given multiclassing spell slots you can't cast (much) with, Paladin almost has to be there for smiting.

Given cantrips (and spell slots you can't use well), you'll want Quickened.

Given Fighting Styles, you'll want Duelling to up your damage per attack. You can get that with paladin, but also fighter.

With all the cantrips you do have, you *don't* want Agonizing Blast, or you'll never use the others. You can skip warlock if you want, though there are a ton of fun invocations.

You'll want 5 levels in a fighting class for Extra Attack.

So my suggestion:

Start Sorcerer. 3 levels.
Add Paladin, 2 levels. (defense style)
Add fighter, 2 levels. (action surge, second wind, Duelling)
Wizard 2 (ALL DA RITUALS. Also war magic school)
Warlock 2 (archfey for aoe charm/fear, or fiend for thp; 2 spell slots, 2 invocations)

Either expand Paladin or Fighter to 5 at some point. If you choose paladin, your caster levels increase. If you choose Fighter, you'll go BM and get superiority dice.

At this point, you're a level 14 character. You have the spell slots of either a 6th (if you levelled fighter) or 7th (if paladin) spellcaster, level 4 spell slots, with 2 fighting styles, shot-rest utility slots, Extra attack, armor if you want it, invocations, a surplus of bonus action and reaction options, and at least 8 cantrips.

You can smite for days! Or cast quickened cantrips for days! Or be a primary healer with leveled Healing Words. After you've exhausted your resources you can reliably fight and do decent damage at range or in melee until you die. You even have an ASI.

From this point, you plug holes. Barbarian 1 makes you a lot tougher. Cleric gives you divine spells. Rogue or bard or ranger gives you skills or sneak attack or expertise or casting levels.

Avoid Monk or Druid in this build. Those are classes you need to take all the way; both martial arts and wild shape will conflict with your fighting styles and ability usage, although a moon druid can both smite or heal itself.

[MilkmanDanimal]

You could just make a support Bard. Leverage Jack of All Trades to be pretty decent at every skill, use buffs, minor illusion, and bardic inspiration in combat, and pick your expertise skills to fill in what your party is weak in.

And make sure you pick up ritual caster if your party doesn't have a Wizard or Tomelock.

Yup. If you go Half-Elf, you pick up proficiencies in two skills at the start, and then three more when you go into Lore Bard. That means between class (3) + background (2) + Half-Elf (2) + Lore Bard (3) you'd have TEN skill proficiencies at third level. With a 15/14/14/13/13/13 split, you'd be just a ridiculously useful skill monkey, and that's not even counting the two skills you'd get Expertise in. I'd totally play that character.

[Blood of Gaea]

Yup. If you go Half-Elf, you pick up proficiencies in two skills at the start, and then three more when you go into Lore Bard. That means between class (3) + background (2) + Half-Elf (2) + Lore Bard (3) you'd have TEN skill proficiencies at third level. With a 15/14/14/13/13/13 split, you'd be just a ridiculously useful skill monkey, and that's not even counting the two skills you'd get Expertise in. I'd totally play that character.
Make it an Envoy Warforged Valor Bard, start with 14 Str, 14 Dex, 13 Con, 13 Int, 13 Wis, 14 Cha, and you'd make a solid grapple bard. You're looking at a solid 17 AC at level one, 19 if you find a shield, and with expertise in athletics, you'll have a +8 to grapple by level 5.

Then just pick up Warcaster at 4th level so you can cast while holding a shield and grappling a creature.

[clash]

Take the 13s go human and play a scout rogue 4/lore bard 4 then rogue up to 11 for the very good skill monkey without a bunch of crazy mc. At level 7 you have proficiency in 12 skills half proficiency in the other 6, expertise in 4 and a minimum of a +2 ability mod to any skill. That gives you 4 skills @ at least +8, 8 at least +5 and the remaining 6 at at least +3. Take dex at level 4 and you will still be respectable in combat with 2d6 sneak attack and a few bard spells to pull from and keep increasing dex as you go. By level 15 your minimum for any skill check is 15 and most of them your minimum is 17 or 21.

[Citan]

Our DM gave us an interesting option for character creation. We could roll for stats but only once and he would watch it all, point buy, or all 13's. I was too nervous to roll as I have crap luck. I thought all 13's would be a sub-par start and I dont think anyone could start with a 16 in any stat with Racial bonuses.

What I first noticed is that this actually made vanilla Human a much more attractive option, but what was funny was noticing multiclassing rules. This character could do MC every level, never knowing what to settle on. Sadly couldnt be level 2 in everything with there being twelve classes. Probably not viable in any serious manner but I am curious how crazy you can get with just 2-3 levels in a solid handful of classes with starter subclass features unlocking then. Could be a great skill monkey. ASI's would be an issue but maybe talk to DM about fudging it for fun if you never go to 4 in any class.

This is moreso a thread for some dumb fun and would like to see some ridiculous ideas. Feel free to add backstory to them. They could be NPC's in someone's game.


Ideas:

Wiz2/Cleric2/Bard2/Pal2/War2/Sorc2/Barb2
Absolute Meyhem. Divination raging tempest cleric inspiring allies while smiting in the name of their fey patron and accidentally wild surging on a quickened Bless. Might want 5 in pally for second attack

Paladin2/Druid X/ Monk X
Shapeshifting Smiting Monks. Bandit watches in horror as a cat flurry punches his friend and they explode with holy light.

Lore BardX/Oathbreaker X
Summon army of the dead and inspire them. Nothing says Metal better than an army of undead back-up dancers. Necrodancer anyone?

BarbarianX/ Shadow Monk 6/ Assassin Rogue X with grappler feat
Str focus, expertise athletics. Teleports behind a guard, rages and dashes up a wall with the poor bastard for the mother of all bodyslams.
Hi!

Actually, a character that takes all class can be extremely viable... Mechanically. Of course, fluff-wise, good luck to make it all work.

The saving grace of such a "I'll never know what I want to be character" is that a) the rules of multiclassing b) the scaling features such as cantrips, c) the few tricks to reduce stat-dependency and c) bounded accuracy means that you can be a great asset to any party, even at level 20, although of course you won't be able to solve any big problem by yourself.

I suggest you search for older threads with an expression such as "2 levels in every class", you will find much inspiration imo. :)

(Basically you'll need Shillelagh or Sacred Weapon and one ASI if you want to be decent even at high-level. Barring that, you're good to go overall, although there are certainly worse and better class repartitions. Hence my "confer older threads" in whcih several detailed ideas are presented).


EDIT:
Actually, I thought I might as well take the (short) time required: so here are some threads ;)
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?572761-Taking-all-the-classes-(D-amp-D-5e)&highlight=all+class
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?494516-Multiclassing-using-all-classes&highlight=all+class
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?482572-Multi-Classed-in-All-12-Classes-Crack-Challenge!&highlight=all+class
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?479194-All-Class-Build&highlight=all+class


EDIT2: Quick crack suggestion.
12 classes? 1 level everywhere then 2 more in (Devotion) Paladin, 1 in Fighter (Action Surge), 2 more in Divine Soul Sorcerer (Subtle, Extend) and 1 more in either Bard (Jack of All Trades), Rogue (Cunning Action) or Wizard (Diviner preferably).

Heavy but "reasonable" multiclass?
WIS: Monk, Cleric, Druid, Ranger, with 3 to 5 levels of Sorcerer and 2-3 of Bards (Lore/Swords).
INT: 4 levels of Monk + 6 levels of Paladin + 5 levels of Rogue + 5 levels of Bladesinger Wizard.
CHA: 4-5 levels of Sorcerer + 3 levels of (Devotion) Paladin + 2 levels of Fighter + 2 levels of Evocation Wizard + 2 levels of Tempest Cleric and finish however you want.

[KorvinStarmast]

Generic Human, all 13's turn into 14's.
Shadow sorcerer. (1).
Paladin for the rest until you get your second attack (6)
-----------------------------------------------
Generic Human, Ranger, Gloom Stalker.
Take Archery fighting style. Rangers are kind of MAD anyway with their wisdom based spell casting.
Get Dex to 18 before your consider MC
------------------------------------------
Or get it to 20 (at level 12) and see what else you'd like to do. Some levels in Rogue might be great at that point.
Or, go Gloom Stalker all the way, and bump wisdom at 16 and 20. If you find some ogre gaunts along the way, so much the better.
------------------------------

[Grod_The_Giant]

Multiclass heavy builds often struggle to keep their offense up to par-- unboosted cantrips and single weapon attacks fall behind quickly. The best way around that is probably Warlock 2, for obvious reasons. Booming/Green Flame Blade... sort of work, especially if you pick up Quicken Spell. Most other stuff falls behind.

[Citan]

Multiclass heavy builds often struggle to keep their offense up to par-- unboosted cantrips and single weapon attacks fall behind quickly. The best way around that is probably Warlock 2, for obvious reasons. Booming/Green Flame Blade... sort of work, especially if you pick up Quicken Spell. Most other stuff falls behind.
I'll have to disagree with you on that one.
Offense =/= damage.
So as far as cantrips go, there are enough cantrips that offer an interesting rider effect to make them relevant. Difference is that instead of using them sometimes, you use them always, so allies can start building their own tactics upon it (especially for those like Shocking Grasp, Ray of Frost or Thorns Whip).

As for single weapon attacks, you have several class features that help those: obviously Rogue (but that one would definitely want a big boost to attack score), but there is also Cleric.
Of course, I get what you mean, in the context of OP, neither is reachable (Rogue starts making a difference at lvl 7 Cleric gets first improvement at 8), so in that context and for weapons only, your assertion is true, before accounting for those Booming Blade and Greenflame Blade. It's certainly dealing less damage than multiple weapon attacks each bringing their own +attack stat (and possibly +10), but you're still looking at above 20(*2) damage, possibly more with a Shadow Blade. If you wanted damage but don't expect rider to trigger, it's definitely not the good pick compared to cantrips that immediately apply rider. If you really want the guy to stay put or expect it to move and hope for another chance at breaking concentration? It's the cherry on the cake. ^^

As for cantrips in general? Definitely not "not good enough" imo: being able to back away from a creature or prevent it to even reach melee in the first place, to give the two obvious examples, is possibly more important at mid levels than at lower, so it's expected that in return you don't deal much damage. :)
Even Vicious Mockery in that regard, although more situational, has still value: people often view it as becoming useless past level 7-8 because "near all monsters get 2 or even 3+ attacks". While the latter statement is true, the vast majority of monsters get only 2 attacks. Vicious Mockery can be paired with any defensive feature other people have (Parry, Uncanny Dodge, Defensive Duelist, Protection) to take care of the whole threat, provided of course a bit of luck (first attack missing because of disadvantage).
This argument obviously doesn't hold when facing the highest CR creatures that have such a base chance to hit that disadvantage won't make any decisive difference, but how often would you face those kind of creatures? :)

Also, another thing to point out: at that level, unless you're having a really bad day (= long, many encounters), you shouldn't have to fallback on cantrips that often. Many 1st to 2rd level spells are still useful at high level after all and you have a pretty decent amount of slots. :)

[Particle_Man]

As another way to go, Monk 14 generic human (so stats all 14 at level 1 - hey, 14s are suddenly a theme!) gets good saves in everything. That ain't bad. Also, said monk can do dex combat stuff, wis ki stuff, and still have good grapples and long jumps, while also being the wise and intelligent sage type and a not bad face. It even fits the theme of working towards physical/mental/spiritual perfection through "following the path" or whatever flavour-of-the-monk you prefer.

I mean, I'd play it. :smallbiggrin:

[Citan]

As another way to go, Monk 14 generic human (so stats all 14 at level 1 - hey, 14s are suddenly a theme!) gets good saves in everything. That ain't bad. Also, said monk can do dex combat stuff, wis ki stuff, and still have good grapples and long jumps, while also being the wise and intelligent sage type and a not bad face. It even fits the theme of working towards physical/mental/spiritual perfection through "following the path" or whatever flavour-of-the-monk you prefer.

I mean, I'd play it. :smallbiggrin:
Very true. :)
I'd daresay Open Hand is probably the best fit for that, more for the "self-heal" and "pacifier" abilities that imo correspond the most to the idea of perfecting one-self (plus it's in my view the most archetypal representation of a Monk's essence). ^^

[SleepIncarnate]

Wiz2/Cleric2/Bard2/Pal2/War2/Sorc2/Barb2
Absolute Meyhem. Divination raging tempest cleric inspiring allies while smiting in the name of their fey patron and accidentally wild surging on a quickened Bless. Might want 5 in pally for second attack


You couldn't wild surge on bless. It only activates from sorcerer spells, and the only way to get bless as a sorcerer spell is to go divine soul, meaning you wouldn't be a wild magic sorcerer.