Draconic Sorcerer Melee

[Sapo]

Hi all!

I've been playing RPG for a while now, but this is my first time playing D&D.

I've choose a Half Elf Draconic Fire Sorcerer...and rolled a blast for stats! My initial stats are (racial bonus included):

STR 11
DEX 16
CON 18
INT 13
WIS 15
CHA 20

My DM did not allow multi class.

Currently my Character reach Lvl 4 and I have a couple of decisions I have to do. I am aiming at a CC/melee sorcerer (using finesse weapons) but I ha no ideia how to do it.

My spell selection:
Cantrips:Fire Bolt, Minor Illusion, Mage Hand and Prestidigitation. I'm thinking to select either Booming Blade or Green-flame Blade
Lvl.1: Magic Missile (eventually switch to Chrom Orb), Shield, Sleep
Lvl 2: Scorching Ray. Probably Mirror Image, Blur or Shadow Blade

My metamagic are Twinned and Quickened.

We are allowed 2 feats and we have some liberty to propose feats.

The big questions are:
1) Can I build a decent melee sorcerer without multiclass?
2) How? Feats? Spell selection? Magic Itens?

Thanks in advance!

[Unoriginal]

First question: what are your HPs?

Second question: which books do you have access to?

[Sapo]

HPs?...As Hit Points? 42. I've always used the average +1 from Draconic R.

I have access to all books

[strangebloke]

1) yes
2) With everything you've been given access to? Definitely.

"Melee" isn't something you should ever feel married to in this game because there will always be times where you're fighting flying opponents or characters who are more mobile than you, or enemy monsters who have lower movement than you and you'll want to kite. So you should definitely have firebolt or something similar just in case. But if you want to wade into melee semi-frequently, here's what you should have:

HP, AC, CON saves. HP because you will take damage, AC so that you take less damage, and CON saves because you're a caster. With your current build you're already close to this, having 16 AC (kind of bad), +9 HP per level (Good), and +6 to CON saves (Great!)
High mobility so that you can get into and out of melee as needed. This becomes doubly important if you're not super great on #1. Good ways for sorcerers to manage this include the mobile feat, shocking grasp, and quicken metamagic (quicken a melee spell, then disengage/dash)
Good ability to deal damage in melee. Once again, with melee attack cantrips and shadow blade you're more or less good here. One fun trick is to cast shadow blade, then twin booming blade to hit two people with your shadowy sword.


In case you could tell, I would highly recommend taking quicken for emergency escapes and twin for efficient low-level damage dealing. At higher levels you can also use twin and quicken for their more conventional uses and do things like have Telekinesis active while you're still shooting fireballs off, or twinning polymorph on people.

Just remember, if you are in melee, you will lose concentration, so be wary of things like Haste and Tenser's transformation.

As a sorcerer, you want spells that are multipurpose and can be cast at multiple levels. You also don't want too many concentration spells. Blindness/Deafness, Enhance Ability, Enlarge/Reduce... all clear winners.

All that said, here's two paths you could go:

Path 1: Control
Pros: better in melee, deals lots of damage
Cons: Tends to be a bit resource intensive as you rely upon shield and other abilities to stay live.

feats: Warcaster, Sentinel.

Concept: You proc Opportunity attacks pretty frequently, and you deal a lot of damage with them when you do via things like booming blade or greenflame blade. You should put your 18 into DEX and your 16 into CON so that your AC and attacks are little less medioce, because Warcaster carries some of the CON save trouble. If you have shadow blade out you'll be a serious threat on the field.

Path 2: Skirmish
Pros: Efficient, very good at staying alive
Cons: Not very flashy.

Feats: Mobile, Inspiring Leader

Concept: Run at an isolated character, hit them with BB, run away. Your enemy either takes the bonus damage or just sits there till next turn. Probably want to switch DEX and CON here as well. Inspiring leader gives you way more ability to stay up.

[Unoriginal]

Well, your main issue is that as a Sorcerer, the only Finesse weapon you have access to is the dagger. Not the most efficient weapon when you only have 1 attack without Sneak Attack or other bonus damage.

Your AC should be 15, which is decent but not exceptional, same thing for 42 HPs...


If you got the Weapon Master Feat for, say, proficiency in rapier (and let's say whip), you could do 1d8+3+ attack cantrip damage. It's not the most impressive thing, especially given the cost.

Instead, here's what I suggest: take the Shadow Blade spell, and use your Ability Score Improvement to max out your DEX as soon as possible.

It is cast with a bonus action, allowing you to use Booming Blade/Green Flame Blade even in the turn you're casting it, and even without the cantrip it deals 2d8 damages when you hit with your +6 attack (since you can raise your DEX to 18 at lvl 4, with a +2 from proficiency).

All in all I think it's the best deal you can get. And, eh, a melee sorcerer with a blade made of shadow is a pretty awesome visual.

Be wary, though: it still doesn't make you as great as martials in melee combat. It's viable and more, but it's only a tiny part of your arsenal, which makes you more efficient if you juggle with the various spells and use them when appropriate.

[Wildarm]

Booming blade can help a bit but in the end you're going to have difficulty keeping up in DPS with a true melee class. Dagger only though and a 16 in your main attack stat don't make this as optimal. I think sorcerer without a multiclass is not really suited for a melee character. If you're really set on it then I'd say you were right to go with Mobility as a feat choice. Dashing in and out with booming blade + quickened booming blade will be an effective use of your turn. You'll be doing good damage at level 5+ or at the very least some decent damage and locking down the opponent. Inspiring Leader is also a good choice to help the whole team with the 20 CHA.

Have you thought about making a dex based paladin instead? You'd do quite well and smites can let you act as a bit of gish character. +5 to your teams saves is also pretty nice.

Hexblade would also make your character SAD and is pretty solid with a starting 20 in CHA. Pact of the Blade and use a polearm. Grab Sentinel, PAM and eventually GWM and/or Spell sniper as feats and you'll have a solid melee caster who can also severely punish anyone entering or exiting your 10' reach. 17 AC in Half Plate with the option to use shield spell gives you some reasonable defenses.

[strangebloke]

Well, your main issue is that as a Sorcerer, the only Finesse weapon you have access to is the dagger. Not the most efficient weapon when you only have 1 attack without Sneak Attack or other bonus damage.

Your AC should be 15, which is decent but not exceptional, same thing for 42 HPs...

16 AC.

13(Draconic AC) +3 DEX.

And I really think he'd be served by putting his 18 in there for 17. But that's just me.

[Unoriginal]

16 AC.

13(Draconic AC) +3 DEX.

Oh, you're right. Dunno how I messed that up.




And I really think he'd be served by putting his 18 in there for 17. But that's just me.

Well, OP can't switch the ability scores now, but putting their Ability Score Improvement will have the same result in the end.

AC 17 is perfectly viable for a Sorcerer, so is a +6 to hit Shadow Blade.

[Pex]

Check with your DM, but technically speaking Crossbow Expert would allow you to cast your range attack spells in melee without disadvantage. It's very likely not what was intended with the feat, but if he's ok with it it's worth considering.

Tough is also good for even more hit points since you'll be attacked a lot. Weapon Master, maybe, if you want a better melee weapon.

It doesn't hurt to have both Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade. Use Booming Blade when fighting only one opponent and Green Flame Blade when fighting two. War Caster feat is nice to use Booming Blade for your opportunity attack.

[Keravath]

[QUOTE=Pex;23575509]Check with your DM, but technically speaking Crossbow Expert would allow you to cast your range attack spells in melee without disadvantage. It's very likely not what was intended with the feat, but if he's ok with it it's worth considering.
/QUOTE]

Actually, there are comments from the designers indicating that it was very much intended.

From the Sage Advice compendium:

"Crossbow Expert: Is it intentional that the second benefit of Crossbow Expert helps ranged spell attacks?
Yes, it’s intentional. When you make a ranged attack roll within 5 feet of an enemy, you normally suffer disadvantage (PH, 195). The second benefit of Crossbow Expert prevents you from suffering that disadvantage, whether or not the ranged attack is with a crossbow.
When designing a feat with a narrow use, we consider adding at least one element that can benefit a character more broadly—a bit of mastery that your character brings from one situation to another. The second benefit of Cross-bow Expert is such an element, as is the first benefit of Great Weapon Master. That element in Crossbow Expert shows that some of the character’s expertise with one type of thing—crossbows, in this case—transfers to other things."

[Keravath]

Can you play a melee sorcerer? The answer is undoubtedly yes you can.

However, unfortunately, a melee sorcerer will never be as effective at melee as an actual melee class (fighter, paladin, barbarian etc). A sorcerer in general won't have as many hit points, they won't have as high an AC (you aren't proficient with shields or armor) and they won't have as many attacks. In addition, just because of the spell capability, lower hit points, and the good chance that you will be concentrating on a spell ... a sorcerer in the front lines will be a priority target.

You stats give you an 11 in str and 16 in dex which is +3 to hit/damage ... and as mentioned the only finesse weapon available is a dagger. With spell attacks you have a +5 to hit due to charisma. You will probably do more damage with firebolt in melee than with your other options.

You can add your charisma to damage at 6th level. If you are a fire based draconic sorcerer this would add +5 damage to all your fire spells. You could take elemental affinity (fire) to avoid pesky fire resistance (though it does nothing for immunities) and crossbow expert if you want to use firebolt in melee. (It also lets you take a bonus action crossbow attack). However, if you insist on being able to run into melee range then the mobile feat is probably essential since if you actually stay next to opponents you will probably die ... at least mobile lets you run away without suffering an opportunity attack.

However, if you are going to use firebolt there isn't much point in going into melee range in the first place.

Which brings up the strengths of the sorcerer class ... spells and metamagic. The spell points can give you more spells slots than any other caster and if you want even purchase higher level slots than you can obtain by resting ... at 7th level a sorcerer could spend 7 spell points to purchase a 5th level spell slot if you really want to upcast something. However, the sorcerer also has twin, quicken, subtle, empower which make your spells even stronger. Only a sorcerer can cast a fireball and a cantrip on the same round. A 5th level sorcerer could have fireball, hypnotic pattern, twinned haste, all sorts of party support and enemy control spells. These are absolutely amazing at boosting the effectiveness of the party ... but the big problem with spells like haste and hypnotic pattern is that they are concentration. If you lose concentration on haste, the characters affected are sitting ducks for a round and lose a turn ... if you lose concentration on hypnotic pattern then the 1/2 of the opponents that you had locked down looking at pretty lights are suddenly attacking again. However, if you are in melee then you are at a high risk of losing concentration whenever you are hit ... which means you either can't cast those spells or take a big risk every time you step into melee with these spells running.

Sorcerers can be the base for some very effective melee characters ... but in most cases this is the result of using selective multi-classing to overcome or offset some of the weaknesses. For example, multiclass into fighter for level 1 to get full armor and weapon proficiencies. Or multiclass into hexblade warlock for 5 levels for pact of the blade and extra attack.

As a pure sorcerer, I find it hard to come up with an effective melee build since their strengths are in spells ... and spells will only go so far (booming blade and green flame blade will fall behind .. though you could quicken it for an "extra" bonus action attack ... but would a quickened firebolt accomplish the same thing?) ... a sorcerer doesn't even get access to tenser's transformation which can transform the caster into a melee substitute at the cost of their spellcasting for the duration.


Damage comparison using your current stats:
Levels 1-4
Booming blade: +3 to hit: 1d4+3 = 5.5 (plus possible d8 if they move)
Firebolt: +5 to hit: 1d10 = 5.5
Firebolt hits more often and does the same damage

Level 5
Booming blade: +3 to hit: 1d4+3 + d8 = 10 (plus possible 2d8 if they move)
Firebolt: +5 to hit: 2d10 = 11

Level 6-10 (assuming fire based draconic sorcerer)
Booming blade: +3 to hit: 1d4+3 + d8 = 10 (plus possible 2d8 if they move)
Firebolt: +5 to hit: 2d10 +5 = 16

Twinning firebolt on two targets can hit two targets located anywhere within 120' for one SP.
Twinning booming blade can hit two targets if they happen to be adjacent.

Both spells can also be quickened but firebolt again offers easier targeting and a greater chance to hit given your stats.

Anyway, the bottom line is that you can play a melee sorcerer but there is a good chance it may not play out the way you would like it to depending on how much you want to balance role playing vs mechanics.

EDIT: Green flame blade does have some extra synergy with fire based draconic sorcerers since you would be able at add your charisma modifier to damage once you hit sixth level.

[Vogie]

I'd pick up the Weapon Mastery feat at 4, picking up all of the finesse martial weapons.

That'll open up various things for you. Your daily driver would be a rapier, and your basic combo would be a GFB followed by a quickened GFB. If you pick up Spell Sniper at 8/12 or Distant Spell at 10 to mix it up with a whip, to flick flames at reach range.

[ccjmk]

First and foremost, does your DM restrict the books you can use?


I've choose a Half Elf Draconic Fire Sorcerer...and rolled a blast for stats! My initial stats are (racial bonus included):

Can you tell me your stats before ratial bonus? Would you be willing to change race?


We are allowed 2 feats and we have some liberty to propose feats.

This is.. aside from the regular, as-per-the-rules character making, you get an extra two feats? Or does your DM restrict you guys to just pick "up to two feats" and whatever other Ability Score Improvement you have should be just for stats?

Before your answers, I'd say that you probably want that 20 on DEX if you want to be a frontline sorcerer. 18 on CHA (getting 20 as soon as possible) and CON on 16. 20 DEX gives you 18 AC without a shield, that's pretty sweet.

As per the feats, if they are free feats, I'd say War Caster and some other one. If you have access to Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron book, picking Revenant Blade feat (while being a regular Elf, not Half-Elf) and grabbing the double-scimitar could be sexy, else Shadow Blade would work amazingly as your meele weapon.

[Sapo]

Thanks for all the feedback guys!

My group play style focus heavily in RP for extra goodies and story arc, So, not become the "biggest hitter" is not a issue, but I like the ability to go into melee to help a friend fighter in trouble or save a troubled being)! It suites my play style and my character personality, alignment and ideals.

We have 2 Fighter, 1 Barbarian, 1 Druid, 1 Ranger (sometimes 2) a monk and a Sorcerer (me!). Big group. Single Caster (me again). My character create bonds with the Druid and with one of the fighters.

I've read all your suggestions. Considered Weapon Mastery for weapons proficiency (slight changed to include a shield), Crossbow Expert for Fire Bolting in melee, War Caster, Sentinel, Mobile and Inspiring Leader feats all seem great and I'll have to pick two of them (eventually).

strangebloke (Path 1) and Unoriginal (Shadow Blade) seems to be the way to go! Quickened Green Flame/Shadow Blade seems to awesome to pass!! Plus badass look with a shadow weapon! :D

Now, decisions!

1) So at 4th Level, I'll pump +2 Dexterity, increasing my AC and my chance to hit or pick War Caster.
2) Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade?
3) Further Spell choice: I was tempted to choose Haste (switching Sleep for Fireball) at Lvl 5 and Counterspell at 6. But since I'll be "concentrated" on Shadow Blade this weird. Suggestions?

Thanks again!

[Sapo]

First and foremost, does your DM restrict the books you can use?



Can you tell me your stats before ratial bonus? Would you be willing to change race?



This is.. aside from the regular, as-per-the-rules character making, you get an extra two feats? Or does your DM restrict you guys to just pick "up to two feats" and whatever other Ability Score Improvement you have should be just for stats?

Before your answers, I'd say that you probably want that 20 on DEX if you want to be a frontline sorcerer. 18 on CHA (getting 20 as soon as possible) and CON on 16. 20 DEX gives you 18 AC without a shield, that's pretty sweet.

As per the feats, if they are free feats, I'd say War Caster and some other one. If you have access to Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron book, picking Revenant Blade feat (while being a regular Elf, not Half-Elf) and grabbing the double-scimitar could be sexy, else Shadow Blade would work amazingly as your meele weapon.

Sorry!

This PC start at lvl1 and after 2 small campaigns (4 sessions) I'm at lvl 4 (as most of the party members). No chance to change race or multiclass. The DM allows two feats for each character.

But I'll definitely bump Dex to 18 at lvl 4.

[Nhorianscum]

Hi all!

I've been playing RPG for a while now, but this is my first time playing D&D.

I've choose a Half Elf Draconic Fire Sorcerer...and rolled a blast for stats! My initial stats are (racial bonus included):

STR 11
DEX 16
CON 18
INT 13
WIS 15
CHA 20

My DM did not allow multi class.

Currently my Character reach Lvl 4 and I have a couple of decisions I have to do. I am aiming at a CC/melee sorcerer (using finesse weapons) but I ha no ideia how to do it.

My spell selection:
Cantrips:Fire Bolt, Minor Illusion, Mage Hand and Prestidigitation. I'm thinking to select either Booming Blade or Green-flame Blade
Lvl.1: Magic Missile (eventually switch to Chrom Orb), Shield, Sleep
Lvl 2: Scorching Ray. Probably Mirror Image, Blur or Shadow Blade

My metamagic are Twinned and Quickened.

We are allowed 2 feats and we have some liberty to propose feats.

The big questions are:
1) Can I build a decent melee sorcerer without multiclass?
2) How? Feats? Spell selection? Magic Itens?

Thanks in advance!

Ignore chrome orb, you've got sray. Kill sleep at 5th. Kill magic missile at level 6.

Short and sweet version.

1)Yes. Skirmish. Don't stick. If you do need to stick just pop mirror image or quicken into the dodge action and use an insp die to hold concentration. We have 16+Shield+ disadvantage as is, for an effective 26 AC at an effective d8 hit die. We are FAT.

2)Spells. We got em. Not much boosts our mele damage but we don't lose anything by being up close.

-----------------------

Long version. At level 5 you get 25.5 average DPR spamming GFB+GFB+Dagger under haste. Not impressive but tolerable. Goes up to 41dpr at 6, ok getting somewhere. Dropping a fireball into this we hit 58.5. Resource heavy but hey. We do more than animate objects so we have some tolerable purpose in mele. At level 7 we're a giant ape, go nuts.

Optimal play is stand back, do mage stuff. If we get dragged into the mosh or need to enter the mosh so be it, we can just fly or teleport out at-will. If we need to stick we can. (Up to 28 effective AC and mirror image if needed before asi's, we're bulky by default)

Ways to improve concept. Spells for mobility, careful, enpower, or subtle at 11, the mobile feat for better skirmishing, elemental adept (fire), warcaster, ASI Dex+2.

I'd recomend mobile up front here. We get really good at mele skirmishing around xl14 with permaflight divebombing and can do it non-stop.

I'd go mobile and then in no real order pick up 20 dex, Alert, and res (wis)/Lucky, and just skirmish away (ritual caster and elemental adept are options as well). +10 to innitiative and great saves to really double down on our bulk, BC, and skirmish.

--------------------

Quick and cheezy level 5 spell list.

5/6 spells used, last one is whatever 1st or 2nd you want.
1st: Shield.
2nd: Sray, Debuff of choice.
3rd: Haste, Counterspell, Fireball. (Pick 2, 3rd at 6th)

Don't bother with super lots of damage spells. Take one maaabey 2 more later on that is not fire if you like. Just BC, and buff on stuff you can't fire. No worries.

Weapon master gives +2 average. +2 dex gives +1/+1 and better innitiative and saves. Just use the dagger. We have 28 AC on tap right now. We don't need a 2 feat tax to grab a shield and cast with it. Dex ASI gives +1 and boosts saves+innitiative in one go.

[Citan]

Thanks for all the feedback guys!

My group play style focus heavily in RP for extra goodies and story arc, So, not become the "biggest hitter" is not a issue, but I like the ability to go into melee to help a friend fighter in trouble or save a troubled being)! It suites my play style and my character personality, alignment and ideals.

We have 2 Fighter, 1 Barbarian, 1 Druid, 1 Ranger (sometimes 2) a monk and a Sorcerer (me!). Big group. Single Caster (me again). My character create bonds with the Druid and with one of the fighters.

I've read all your suggestions. Considered Weapon Mastery for weapons proficiency (slight changed to include a shield), Crossbow Expert for Fire Bolting in melee, War Caster, Sentinel, Mobile and Inspiring Leader feats all seem great and I'll have to pick two of them (eventually).

strangebloke (Path 1) and Unoriginal (Shadow Blade) seems to be the way to go! Quickened Green Flame/Shadow Blade seems to awesome to pass!! Plus badass look with a shadow weapon! :D

Now, decisions!

1) So at 4th Level, I'll pump +2 Dexterity, increasing my AC and my chance to hit or pick War Caster.
2) Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade?
3) Further Spell choice: I was tempted to choose Haste (switching Sleep for Fireball) at Lvl 5 and Counterspell at 6. But since I'll be "concentrated" on Shadow Blade this weird. Suggestions?

Thanks again!
Hi!
I'd definitely pick +2 DEX. Two reasons.
1) Better to-hit (obviously): you can use Shadow Blade for now, I'd recommend against Haste except in fights with lots of space and little enemies (use the extra to Disengage). But honestly I'd say you can live without it.
2) Better Initiative: for your crowd control options (Fear/Slow/Hypnotic Pattern), every bit of chance to disable enemies right at the start of a fight counts (imo).

Also, the one spell they forgot about the two above is Greater Invisibility: for when you want to play in melee, this one is by far the best buff you can use on yourself, upping both offense and defense at the same time. It's level 7 though so a bit far. ^^
I'd consider Haste only after you got either Mobile, or Warcaster. It's simply not worth it otherwise imo.
Even then I'd say you'll have much better uses for your concentration, either upcast Shadow Blade, or Greater Invisibility, or using a Fear/Slow/Hypnotic Pattern/Stinking Cloud/whatever.
To emulate Haste, you can simply get Mobile ASAP and ask your Druid pal to spare a few 1st level slots for Longstrider whenever you feel a fight is coming. 20 extra feet of speed is a sweet deal. Although your wish to get into melee does reduce it (you can't simply kite enemies), you'll have more leeway to get back into the protection area of your Barbarian/Fighter pal.
To strengthen the point, if you grit your teeth and live long enough, you'll get a flying speed which will greatly increase your actual reach (fly above enemies to pick near shortest route to enemy while avoiding OA, maximize any AOE by placing yourself at the perfect starting point, etc).

[Trustypeaches]

You need to pick Green Flame Blade if you're going to be a Draconic (Fire) melee sorcerer, since it makes your Green Flame blade strikes competitively with basically every other gish out there (besides multiclassed/minmaxed ones).

[strangebloke]

Thanks for all the feedback guys!

My group play style focus heavily in RP for extra goodies and story arc, So, not become the "biggest hitter" is not a issue, but I like the ability to go into melee to help a friend fighter in trouble or save a troubled being)! It suites my play style and my character personality, alignment and ideals.

We have 2 Fighter, 1 Barbarian, 1 Druid, 1 Ranger (sometimes 2) a monk and a Sorcerer (me!). Big group. Single Caster (me again). My character create bonds with the Druid and with one of the fighters.

I've read all your suggestions. Considered Weapon Mastery for weapons proficiency (slight changed to include a shield), Crossbow Expert for Fire Bolting in melee, War Caster, Sentinel, Mobile and Inspiring Leader feats all seem great and I'll have to pick two of them (eventually).

strangebloke (Path 1) and Unoriginal (Shadow Blade) seems to be the way to go! Quickened Green Flame/Shadow Blade seems to awesome to pass!! Plus badass look with a shadow weapon! :D

Now, decisions!

1) So at 4th Level, I'll pump +2 Dexterity, increasing my AC and my chance to hit or pick War Caster.
2) Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade?
3) Further Spell choice: I was tempted to choose Haste (switching Sleep for Fireball) at Lvl 5 and Counterspell at 6. But since I'll be "concentrated" on Shadow Blade this weird. Suggestions?

Thanks again!

War Caster is great! So is Dexterity! Really you can't go wrong here. Personally, since you're getting shield proficiency from the weapon feat, I would go with warcaster so that you can have sword, shield, and spells all easily accessible at all times. If you go for DEX, just remember that you can't cast shield when you're holding a shield and weapon, and that if you put away your weapon to cast a spell, you can't take a reaction attack until you draw your weapon again on your next turn. So its arguable which is better, but I'd pick Warcaster since its less headache. Plus, I wouldn't risk getting spells like Haste unless you have warcaster and a hefty CON save mod. To sum it up, warcaster is going to make your game simpler and make your sentinel attacks deal crazy damage, whereas +DEX is going to make you tougher and better overall.
Why not both? GFB is great when there's two enemies, less when there aren't. GFB works with draconic power, BB doesn't. Booming Blade is great when you can disengaged from the enemy, less when you can't. Booming Blade can be twinned, GFB can't. (technically, though your DM may overlook this.) Get both and switch it up from time to time.
looking at your list, you only have shadow blade as a concentration spell, so I wouldn't worry about concentration. Haste is great for a variety of reasons, but its more a spell to cast on your allies than to cast on yourself. Being in melee with Haste up, particularly twinned haste, is really asking for trouble. You roll a nat 2 and suddenly half the party is unconcious. Personally I would skip it, and go for greater invisibility at level seven, which is far better. Perhaps consider Blink? It isn't concentration and can't be twinned, but has a 50% to make you immune for a round and also makes you more mobile.



Hi!
I'd definitely pick +2 DEX. Two reasons.
1) Better to-hit (obviously): you can use Shadow Blade for now, I'd recommend against Haste except in fights with lots of space and little enemies (use the extra to Disengage). But honestly I'd say you can live without it.
2) Better Initiative: for your crowd control options (Fear/Slow/Hypnotic Pattern), every bit of chance to disable enemies right at the start of a fight counts (imo).


Do you know that he has a shield, as well as the Sentinel feat? That's what I think makes the trade-offs comparable.

[Citan]

[
Do you know that he has a shield, as well as the Sentinel feat? That's what I think makes the trade-offs comparable.
Hey, you're right, I missed that indeed.
But I also forgot what the trade was about, between DEX and... Warcaster?
In that case, and OP wants to always use a shield and use weapon cantrips, Warcaster may be probably better if only to allow casting without bothering with draw action economy.

It's a bit regrettable though that the "spell as reaction" is kinda redundant since it cannot be stacked with "drops speed to 0" effect of Sentinel.
A fun but niche alternative could be Tavern Brawler to get Sentinel and weapon cantrips triggered from shield bash while keeping the other hand free for somatic components. ^^ Probably does not fit character concept though.

If however OP you are ok with dropping shield (or play with draw economy when you really want to use a spell and still use shield for tough fights), then Warcaster can be put aside in favor for DEX (after all, it still means a +1 AC, so you're "only losing 1 AC", not that big of a deal imo).

[Sapo]

Very good stuff guys! Thank you very much.

I'll be posting further advances of this character, case someone wonder with the same (probably stupid...) idea!

So my DM will allow my Sorcerer a Shield Proficiency due to Role Play and a awesome background story.

My Half Elf Fire Draconic Sorcerer, at this point (Lvl 5), looks like this:

STR 11
DEX 16
CON 18
INT 13
WIS 15
CHA 20

Cantrips
Fire Bolt
Minor Illusion
Mage Hand
Prestidigitation
Green-Flame Blade

Lvl 1

Magic Missile
Shield

Lvl 2
Scorching Ray
Shadow Blade

Lvl 3
Counterspell
Fireball

Feat: War Caster

My metamagic are Twinned and Quickened.

At Lvl 6 I'm not sold on Haste. Slow may be an option (and kind of AoE spell). Blink seems an OK option (so is Mirror Image or Misty Step) or some Buff/debuff. And as some of you suggested, replace Magic Missile.
At Lvl 7/8, +2 DEX, Polimorph and Greater Invisibility.
At Lvl 9 Telekinesis...

After that... I have no idea. Empowered Spell and Heightned Spell as Metamagic. Probably Booming Blade, Ray of Frost or Lightning Lure for my last cantrip... Disintegrate or Sun Beam at Lvl 10. Eventually Wish. The combinations are infinite!

What spells would help a melee sorcerer while...continuing to do sorcerer stuff.

Quesions
What should replace Magic Missile? Fire resistance/immunity may be a problem. I did notice any immediate spell to replace MM
Which Buff/debuff should I choose? What would increase melee damage?

Cheers for you all!

[Citan]

Very good stuff guys! Thank you very much.

I'll be posting further advances of this character, case someone wonder with the same (probably stupid...) idea!

So my DM will allow my Sorcerer a Shield Proficiency due to Role Play and a awesome background story.

My Half Elf Fire Draconic Sorcerer, at this point (Lvl 5), looks like this:

STR 11
DEX 16
CON 18
INT 13
WIS 15
CHA 20

Cantrips
Fire Bolt
Minor Illusion
Mage Hand
Prestidigitation
Green-Flame Blade

Lvl 1

Magic Missile
Shield

Lvl 2
Scorching Ray
Shadow Blade

Lvl 3
Counterspell
Fireball

Feat: War Caster

My metamagic are Twinned and Quickened.

At Lvl 6 I'm not sold on Haste. Slow may be an option (and kind of AoE spell). Blink seems an OK option (so is Mirror Image or Misty Step) or some Buff/debuff. And as some of you suggested, replace Magic Missile.
At Lvl 7/8, +2 DEX, Polimorph and Greater Invisibility.
At Lvl 9 Telekinesis...

After that... I have no idea. Empowered Spell and Heightned Spell as Metamagic. Probably Booming Blade, Ray of Frost or Lightning Lure for my last cantrip... Disintegrate or Sun Beam at Lvl 10. Eventually Wish. The combinations are infinite!

What spells would help a melee sorcerer while...continuing to do sorcerer stuff.

Quesions
What should replace Magic Missile? Fire resistance/immunity may be a problem. I did notice any immediate spell to replace MM
Which Buff/debuff should I choose? What would increase melee damage?

Cheers for you all!
I get that you wouldn't like Haste too much.
As strange as is, while usually I don't endeavor it too much for "normal" characters...

On you, who have godly (for a Sorcerer) Constitution, + native Constitution proficiency + Warcaster, it should not be that risky of a bet to place, and you have far enough melee friends to make a Twinned Haste very potent. Not necessarily the "use everytime" thing, but often enough.
Especially when you have the Monk in your party: doubling move and giving free Dash as bonus action would allow him to reach whatever pesky guy is flinging dangerous things at you from back rows and Stun him.
Either the Monk or Barbarian could also Grapple one particular enemy and break him out of its "safe circle" and back near your own party for quick and deadly gangbang.

With that said, if you don't fancy Haste, no worries! There are plenty great level 3 spells.
And, again considering your party, Slow is the next best thing: Fear is great but unfriendly, and all your pals will be very sensitive to WIS saves. Hypnotic Pattern suffers exactly the same problem, but at least that one can be made working if you can start before everyone else or your party learn to coordinate with one another.
Enemies Abound, while not being particularly suited to a melee-heavy party, can however even better than Hypnotic Pattern set up a "encounter-winning" opening move, especially with Twinned: targeting Intelligence ensures a very high chance of success even on consecutive turns: cast spell, have your party either hide while creature wreaks havoc then finish survivors, or use it on melee guy and let them desorganize enemy lines while you slowly go into contact (you'd enjoy it best with Alert obviously. ^^).

Sleet Storm is the last candidate for party help: still not suited to use "in-fight", but can be very useful either as an opener or simply for hit-and-run or escape tactics.

And last but not least, Thunder Step: although this is a bit better with Warlock (short-rest use), this can still be a very satisfying spell to use especially since you can Quicken it after a Booming Blade.

TL;DR: Slow would be my favorite, with next in line equally Hypnotic Pattern, Enemies Abound and Sleet Storm (very slight preference for the last but honestly which is the best heavily depends on how your party plays).

As for your questions:
- If you want a spell that can tackle any kind of monster, easy answer is Chromatic Orb.
- For buff, Haste or Warding Wind (very useful too), for debuff, see above, for melee damage, considering you'll want your concentration on aforementioned spell Shadow Blade is not very adequate so I'd say Thunder Step although it may not be what you were looking for.