The ultimate gestalt

[Yael]

I'm entering a game where T4 and 5 classes can be gestalted, so I'm going with the ultimate combo of Monk and Truenamer.

I'm asking for advice on this combo, as Monk can be Int-ed with Carmendine Monk + Kung-Fu Genius, so playing one isn't THAT bad, however I've never played a Truenamer, so I kinda need help with it. I already checked multiple truenamer handbooks and guides, but still I'm onto how to make this combo of broken overpowered classes to have a decent character.

As for its function? Whatever can be done, also I have pretty much every 3.X source open (from 3.0 third party to 3.5 to Pathfinder, though I'm staying away from Pathfinder myself as the system isn't really the same, and the monk I'm using is the 3.5e version.)

Thoughts?

[OgresAreCute]

I guess the synergy here is that when your Truespeak DCs become untenably high you instead spend your actions on mediocre punching?

[Blackhawk748]

Get an Item Familair. I don't care if you don't like them (I don't much care for them myself) But you need it in order to function. Get several bonuses to your Truenaming, get your competence bonus, get a divine bonus, grab a Luck bonus, you get the point. After that, just do normal Monk OP.

[Ruethgar]

The Sculpt Self feat has borked rules on making your own custom prestige races which count as basically making your body into a custom magic item. Could thus try making yourself your ancestral relic item familiar.

[Prime32]

The best thing Truenamer gives you is Truespeak as a class skill. Be a Cobra Strike (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#monkVariantFightingSty les) monk, and work your way towards the Word Given Form martial art (ToM p218), which gives you total concealment vs the target of your Dodge feat. Now look to the Might of the Hand martial art from Dragon Magazine #303 - it lets you use Dodge against a number of targets equal to 1 + your Wis modifier. Then take feats like Elusive Target and Defensive Throw, granting extra benefits against Dodge targets.

[Falontani]

There is a monk truespeech class that isn't too terrible. Just use all your swift actions and all your stunning fist uses to power the class

[Yael]

The best thing Truenamer gives you is Truespeak as a class skill. Be a Cobra Strike (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#monkVariantFightingSty les) monk, and work your way towards the Word Given Form martial art (ToM p218), which gives you total concealment vs the target of your Dodge feat. Now look to the Might of the Hand martial art from Dragon Magazine #303 - it lets you use Dodge against a number of targets equal to 1 + your Wis modifier. Then take feats like Elusive Target and Defensive Throw, granting extra benefits against Dodge targets.

Wow, this should work great for an elusive tripper anti-charger, though the Might of the Hand martial art requires lots of feats unrelated to the normal Dodge chain.

As for the Item Familiar, I guess it's just too good to let pass. But allow me to ask if I do understand how the Invest Skill Points ability.

I invest 3 ranks from my level up (either the monk or truenamer list) for any class skill, and I get a +1 (untyped?) bonus to a skill of my choice. The maximum of points I may assign to a skill should be my maximum for class skills? (HD+3)

>3 ranks into Truespeak = +1 bonus to Truespeak.
>Max ranks (level 3rd) would be 6 ranks for a +2 bonus (two +1's)?

[Goaty14]

=I invest 3 ranks from my level up (either the monk or truenamer list) for any class skill, and I get a +1 (untyped?) bonus to a skill of my choice. The maximum of points I may assign to a skill should be my maximum for class skills? (HD+3)

Yes.


>3 ranks into Truespeak = +1 bonus to Truespeak.
>Max ranks (level 3rd) would be 6 ranks for a +2 bonus (two +1's)?

No. You invest 3 ranks into the item for any 3 skills (these don't have to be exclusively the same skills each level-up, but it's simpler) every level. Each time you do so, you gain a +1 bonus. Instead that looks like:

>1 rank into Knowledge (History), 1 rank into Spot, 1 rank into Listen (all 3 into the Item Familiar) = +1 Bonus to Truespeak
>Max ranks would be 6 ranks for a +6 bonus (but only if you can theoretically retcon 18 ranks into the IF)

[Kalkra]

See if you can get yourself polymorphed into a garbler (ToM p. 267) and laugh at those ridiculously high Truespeak checks. If that's out, there's always Guidance of the Avatar.

EDIT: Just looked at Sculpt Self. How could anybody think that was remotely balanced?

[Troacctid]

The best thing Truenamer gives you is Truespeak as a class skill. Be a Cobra Strike (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#monkVariantFightingSty les) monk, and work your way towards the Word Given Form martial art (ToM p218), which gives you total concealment vs the target of your Dodge feat. Now look to the Might of the Hand martial art from Dragon Magazine #303 - it lets you use Dodge against a number of targets equal to 1 + your Wis modifier. Then take feats like Elusive Target and Defensive Throw, granting extra benefits against Dodge targets.
The irony is that as a monk, you already have total concealment against everybody two levels before that via Dark Moon Disciple, which doesn't cost you any feats at all.

[Ruethgar]

EDIT: Just looked at Sculpt Self. How could anybody think that was remotely balanced?

Yeah, I only really use it to make subpar characters decent compared to their op party members or to supplement VoP or similarly equipment deprived/independent characters.

Did also make a neat mana system with built in Ravenloft batteries and small spell selections via staff rules. Made them able to cast all day, but could run out in any one encounter.

[liquidformat]

Where does Sculpt Self and Dark Moon Disciple come from? I haven't come across either before...

Thanks in advance

[Troacctid]

Where does Sculpt Self and Dark Moon Disciple come from? I haven't come across either before...

Thanks in advance
Sculpt Self is from Dragon #304 (also available in OGL (https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Publication:Dragon_(magazine)/Dragon_304/Prestige_Races)). Dark Moon Disciple is from the Champions of Valor Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a).

[Gnaeus]

I guess the synergy here is that when your Truespeak DCs become untenably high you instead spend your actions on mediocre punching?

Kinda, yeah. Truenamer has some gems in among the poo. Just not enough to be a valid adventuring class. As a Truenamer you will be cranking Int as high as possible. That should give you decent AC. Saves will be good. Mobility is passable. You should be able to divert some WBL from defenses into useful actions.

With a little luck, you should be able to stand in the back of the party throwing spell likes, wearing a robe, holding a staff. To any enemy without spellcraft you should look a lot like a squishy wizard. But the standard low op wizard counters fail. (Remove component pouch, does nothing. Ready to shoot wizard when he casts, deflect arrows. Move to engage wizard with mage slayer, open yourself up to full attack. Target wizard weak saves, monk has 3 good saves and evasion).

It’s not amazing but it sounds a lot more fun than either alone.

[Blackhawk748]

Kinda, yeah. Truenamer has some gems in among the poo. Just not enough to be a valid adventuring class. As a Truenamer you will be cranking Int as high as possible. That should give you decent AC. Saves will be good. Mobility is passable. You should be able to divert some WBL from defenses into useful actions.

With a little luck, you should be able to stand in the back of the party throwing spell likes, wearing a robe, holding a staff. To any enemy without spellcraft you should look a lot like a squishy wizard. But the standard low op wizard counters fail. (Remove component pouch, does nothing. Ready to shoot wizard when he casts, deflect arrows. Move to engage wizard with mage slayer, open yourself up to full attack. Target wizard weak saves, monk has 3 good saves and evasion).

It’s not amazing but it sounds a lot more fun than either alone.

The Truenamer is actually ok as far as its abilities go. I'd call it tier 4 ish. Its just that its casting mechanis is abject trash and needs insane Skill OP to even function. Hell, id actually recommend that the OP just ask the DM if they can get a +1 Competence bonus to Truespeak cheks per Truenamer level or soemthing. It doesnt fix the problems but it makes life easier.

[liquidformat]

The Truenamer is actually ok as far as its abilities go. I'd call it tier 4 ish. Its just that its casting mechanis is abject trash and needs insane Skill OP to even function. Hell, id actually recommend that the OP just ask the DM if they can get a +1 Competence bonus to Truespeak cheks per Truenamer level or soemthing. It doesnt fix the problems but it makes life easier.

OP is DM...

[Crake]

OP is DM...

Where'd you get that impression from? Nothing OP has said hints toward them being the DM.

[liquidformat]

Where'd you get that impression from? Nothing OP has said hints toward them being the DM.

doh, I had two threads open and got confused which one is which... <(")

[Yael]

OP is DM...

I'd use a Truenamer fix if that were the case. As a DM I often attend to use fixes for low-tier classes.

[Gnaeus]

I'd use a Truenamer fix if that were the case. As a DM I often attend to use fixes for low-tier classes.

Sounds like the fix is gestalt. Although there are some broken rules that could use fixing, like knowing a things true name making DCs more difficult rather than easier.