Unique Circumstances: a viable Strength Monk

[effenhoog]

Hello all,
Normally I don't like to clutter up the forums with my personal concerns but I've been somewhat agonizing over my character for an upcoming campaign and I'd really like to bounce some ideas around, maybe get some outside opinions, and generally organize my thoughts a bit. I'll be starting a custom campaign at level 10 with free choice of one magic item of "very rare" or lower rarity. I'd like to take this opportunity to build an archetype that 5e otherwise doesn't really facilitate under normal character building rules: the Strong Punching Man.

Objective: Be a powerful strength-based brawler who can stand in melee and is nearly the ultimate grappler with 7 (STR) + 8 (expertise) for a massive +15 to athletics and advantage on athletics checks while raging, plus hands are always free to grapple and technically no real need to even hold a weapon. To this end, we are using the campaign-granted magic item selection of the Belt of Fire Giant Strength (25 STR) to make the strength-based monk shell actually work without sacrificing too much. I'm not overly concerned with optimization but if I'm doing something unconventional I'd at least like to be good at what I'm trying to do.

The build:
Variant Human (Prodigy: athletics)
10/16/14/8/16/8 OR 10/16/16/8/14/8
Barb 2 (eventual bear totem) Monk 8 (drunken master)
Belt of fire giant strength (25 STR)

Drunken Master lets the character get away without relying as much on WIS while also giving a decent amount of the Mobile feat that we are otherwise giving up by "wasting" the V. Human feat on Prodigy. We're at a d6 martial arts die instead of the d8 a single-classed monk would have, but with 25 STR we effectively have +2 damage and to-hit than a normal 20 DEX monk, and an additional +2 damage if we are raging. Add in extra hit/crit chances from advantage vs prone+grappled foes or reckless attack, and our punches definitely aren't weak.
Totem barbarian feels like the obvious choice for barbarian path considering we are probably dipping at most 4 levels into barb to grab the ASI. Most likely bear, though with evasion in our pocket I could maybe look at some of the other totems. A raging elk monk would be pretty fast and the wolf and eagle have their uses as well.

First two ASI options and their build consequences:
--Option A: 16 DEX 20 CON 14 WIS. Go all-in on the barbarian AC and HP/durability at the expense of Ki save DC.
--Option B: 20 DEX 14 CON 16 WIS. Commit to the monk path for AC and lower con score due to needing dex+wis as high as possible for monk AC, but have great Dex saves with 20 dex + evasion + danger sense (advantage on dex saves to visible traps/spells/effects)
---Option C: 16 DEX 14 CON 20 WIS. Probably a different build (***see below***) using Open Hand knockdowns in conjunction with grappling. Could still be done with drunken master but with the reduced Ki pool stunning strike is a bit less useful than normal, and to some degree a good grapple+prone can yield somewhat similar results.
---Probably not an option: raising both CON and WIS to 18+ (or planning to). Raising both CON and WIS means a lower AC no matter which unarmored AC you use since DEX is ignored


***Alternate build: Way of the Open Hand
Option C: 16 DEX 14 CON 20 WIS
Going full WIS lets us make better use of our Ki saves, normally that would mostly just be stunning strike but Open Hand optimizes the grapple flowchart. Normally if you want the target grappled+prone, you would spend your whole attack action to grapple and then shove them prone, then bonus action punch (or flurry for a Ki). With open hand, you can grapple, punch, then bonus action flurry for two hits and knock them prone with a Ki save of 17. It's probably easier to make the save than it is to beat your +15 athletics but it's an overall more efficient package, and puts stunning strike back on the table as well.

Some other alternate build options:
A more straightforward option might be to take the Mobile feat, probably go Open Hand and just dip one single level or two into rogue for athletics expertise. We lose the resistance and athletics advantage from raging (and have less overall HP) by ditching barb but we can still play a STR-based expert grappler monk with a larger pool of Ki. +15 to athletics is pretty good on its own and combined with the Ki savings that Cunning Action can provide it's a solid build. I'd even be tempted to go barb 4 in the original build and then start into rogue if the campaign went on that long, but the Ki losses from taking barb levels is already pretty painful.



Currently I am leaning more toward Option A (20 CON 14 WIS). Logically my brain tells me it's a mistake as I'm losing out on my Stunning Strike save, but I'm also already giving up a lot of Ki and committing to more of a brawling style: the guy you grapple can still hit you back after all. With 8 Ki and (eventually) 3 rages we have a good amount of resources to manage. The biggest weakness is probably ranged enemies and (potentially) WIS/INT/CHA saves but that's life. I'm also a bit concerned that I'm investing too much into grappling since you can't grapple everything and it isn't always even useful but with the unique opportunity presented I'd really like to try it. I just don't want to be 6 weeks into the campaign and wish I had built it a little differently.

There is also another clause in the campaign prep that says we might receive additional magic items based on how thorough our background is. I'm not relying on this, but Amulet of Health (18 CON) and Staff of Thunder and Lightning (two free Stunning strikes per day at DC 17) are my top picks if it becomes an option.

Thanks to anyone who managed to slog through this and/or can offer any feedback.

[unusualsuspect]

When I wanted to make a strength monk, I just reflavored Barbarian class features. Barbarian 20 makes a helluva str monk (just pick up Tavern Brawler, and you're basically Jackie Chan, to boot).

[Mr.Spastic]

You could just go straight monk and ignore the barbarian. With a +15 so don't really need the advantage. I would go open hand with high wis because you can't grapple things that are too big but open hands ki stuff works on anything.

[Blood of Gaea]

If you go Envoy Warforged, you can start with:

Str: 15+1
Dex: 13+1
Con: 13+1
Int: 9
Wis: 14
Cha: 8

Take your first level in Rogue for light armor, a sneak attack die, an expertise in athletics.

You have 15AC to start, and you'll see a decent boost overtime(as your proficiency increases), and it will outpace your Monk AC unless you invest heavily in Dex.

After your first level of Rogue, just take the next 19 in your preferred Rogue class, I'd go for Open Hand or Kensei myself for the strength feel.

Now you have a Str Monk that uses the giant belt as a boost instead of a gimmick.

[djreynolds]

Could you use the brute archetype?

Otherwise what you have will work, 16 in each Dex and con, is a 16AC, liveable with rage.

Grab the mobile feat, first , reckless attack and literally walk away.

Also, you grab magic initiate and take mage armor, no concentration.

[Man_Over_Game]

I did a lot of research into making a Barbarian style monk, and you're on the right track. The main problem with going Strength without Barbarian is that your damage compared to a Dex monk stays the same, but your defense takes a massive hit. A single level of Barbarian really helps mitigate that.

Additionally, the Unarmored Defense the Barbarian gets will synergize a lot easier (utilizing Con and Dex) rather than the Monk Unarmored Defense (Wis and Dex). Since RAW, you can ONLY learn a single unarmored defense option (you get the first one you got and you cannot learn any new ones), you should go Barbarian for your first level. Plus, you get that maxed out d12, which is nice.

Monks have a lot of attacks and mobility, so it's pretty hard to go wrong with your Barbarian choices.

Ancestral Guardian benefits from hit and run tactics, so it synergizes very well with Monk.
Totem has a lot of options that work off of mobility, improve mobility, or improve defense.
Zealot has a mild on-hit effect, and doesn't do anything that specifically synergizes with Monk, but doesn't do anything bad either. A good generic option.
All other Barbarian options have abilities that interfere with the monk's bonus action attacks.

Monks are a little bit limited. Due to the fact that you are stacking your Strength, you'll also have to worry about your Con and Dex for your defense, leaving little room for Wisdom. Anything that uses a Monk's saving throw (yes, that even means Stunning Strike) we should just leave out.
That means your options are limited to:
Kensei, who's main benefit (ranged attacks for Monk) doesn't benefit from Rage, but darts are still an option at level 3 (count as Ranged weapon, and can use Str)
Drunken Master, who wants to be in the thick of melee.
Shadow, who technically don't have saving throws, but their spells will be easily countered and you likely won't be using stealth much as a Str-based Monk.

Drunken Master is the obvious choice for Monk, but Kensei can also work if you want to harass your target before raging into combat.

My personal favorite is to be a Drunken Master + Ancestral Guardian, to hit an enemy and run away and force enemies to follow. You can abuse Reckless Attack and Flurry of Blows for some decent burst damage and forcing enemies to follow you (to take advantage of Reckless Attack) or engage your allies.

Totem + Drunken Master can have some tankiness with the boring bear, but I personally enjoy using Tiger or Elk (in SCAG). Tiger works well with the monk's Step of the Wind to jump crazy good distances, no need to Disengage when you can just jump 12 feet over their heads. Elk increases your movement speed by 15, which with the Drunken Master's Flurry of Blows benefit means you can move about 65 feet in a single turn without Dashing and getting 3 attacks off (not including Extra Attacks), which means that the enemy's back line will never be safe.

A small synergy not everyone notices is going the Barb + Monk build and going Dwarf. Grabbing the Dwarven Resilience feat allows you to spend a hit die whenever you Dodge, and Monks can BA Dodge. Combined with your high Con score and the Barbarian's 1d12 Hit Die, you can heal a pretty solid amount of HP (10 or so) and Dodge and Attack all in the same turn.

--------

Or the easy way is to just go TWF Barbarian and pick up Mobile. Grab Totem (Elk) for the mobility and be a resource-free pretend Drunken Master.

[BobZan]

Have you considered the Tortle?

You can dump dex and go STR+WIS+CON

[Blood of Gaea]

You can also be a Tortle. Base 17 AC, +2 Str, +1 Wis, and you can do slashing damage with unarmed strikes if you want. They're basically made to be strength Monks.

EDIT: Shadow Monked.

[OracularPoet]

Not a legal multiclass with STR 10.