Siege weapons (Heroes of Battle)

[Silly Name]

I've decided to play a little surprise on my players, and have snuck a ballista at the end of a long, narrow corridor in a dungeon, which I figured would be fun and present a nice little challenge. So I went scouring my archives seeking any official rules on this kind of stuff, and came across the Heroes of Battle section on siege weapons.

It's a pretty straightforward, and seems to work well (though the official damage is a bit underwhelming, which I'm thinking of adjusting), but I am not sure I fully understand how the reloading of the ballista and number of crew members interact. It normally takes two full round actions to reload the ballista, and the book says that if two crew members work together they can load it in just one round... So, what happens, if anything at all, if there are three members? Four? Does this influence loading time?

[DeTess]

I've decided to play a little surprise on my players, and have snuck a ballista at the end of a long, narrow corridor in a dungeon, which I figured would be fun and present a nice little challenge. So I went scouring my archives seeking any official rules on this kind of stuff, and came across the Heroes of Battle section on siege weapons.

It's a pretty straightforward, and seems to work well (though the official damage is a bit underwhelming, which I'm thinking of adjusting), but I am not sure I fully understand how the reloading of the ballista and number of crew members interact. It normally takes two full round actions to reload the ballista, and the book says that if two crew members work together they can load it in just one round... So, what happens, if anything at all, if there are three members? Four? Does this influence loading time?

I'd say if you had 3 members, then you could load and fire it in 1 round (member 1 & 2 reload, member 3 fires). Every member after that can start the reloading process earlier*, though I'd include some kind of hard cap for efficiency (maybe it can only be fired once per round at most?).

*so with 4 it'd be: Turn 1 member 1&2 reload, member 3 fires, member four reloads. turn 2: member 1 reloads, member 2 fires, member 3&4 reload.

[Mars Ultor]

Most likely the weapon is not actually a ballista, but a smaller version called a scorpio or variation of a carroballista. Regular ballistas were huge, several times the height of a man, and they threw bolts or stones. That's also why the damage seems so low, it's not the giant siege weapon everyone pictures when they read "ballista."

The scorpio was a smaller ballista-like weapon which only fired bolts. Essentially they were giant crossbows and were intended as general artillery weapons, they weren't specifically siege weapons. Carroballista were similar, but were a little larger and were mounted to a cart--self-propelled artillery.

You could probably only get two men to arm the weapon, one to load the projectile, and one to wind the spring. The wheel to wind the spring wasn't that large, it would be clumsy to have two people try to crank it at once. The bolt itself wasn't huge, it was like a very short, thick spear.

Here's a pretty good photograph https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorpio_(weapon)#/media/File:Balliste_fireing.jpg of a recreation. You can see the general size of the weapon.

[HouseRules]

Ballista = Lightning Bolt
Catapult = Fireball

Ballista requires 8-12 men to work.
A Scorpio[n] only requires 2-4 men to work.

[liquidformat]

Depending on the level of magic and wealth you are dealing with there is also arbalester (a Homunculus crossbow) and arcane ballista golem I believe both are from magic of eberron. They could be interesting alternate that require no one to shoot.

[Blackhawk748]

The damage seems low because it ignores Hardness, which means it can chew through object fairly quickly. And yes, its probably closer to a big Scorpio rather than a real ballista.

[Melcar]

I've decided to play a little surprise on my players, and have snuck a ballista at the end of a long, narrow corridor in a dungeon, which I figured would be fun and present a nice little challenge. So I went scouring my archives seeking any official rules on this kind of stuff, and came across the Heroes of Battle section on siege weapons.

It's a pretty straightforward, and seems to work well (though the official damage is a bit underwhelming, which I'm thinking of adjusting), but I am not sure I fully understand how the reloading of the ballista and number of crew members interact. It normally takes two full round actions to reload the ballista, and the book says that if two crew members work together they can load it in just one round... So, what happens, if anything at all, if there are three members? Four? Does this influence loading time?

Give me until tomorrow, I’ll show you optimized artilery!!!

[Silly Name]

Thank you all for the answers! Yes, a scorpio is closer to what I had in mind, as well as the object found in the book itself.


The damage seems low because it ignores Hardness, which means it can chew through object fairly quickly. And yes, its probably closer to a big Scorpio rather than a real ballista.

Uh, is it supposed to be used against objects? That didn't really cross my mind, it doesn't feel like a weapon made to smash through thick castle walls.

[Khedrac]

Depending on the level of magic and wealth you are dealing with there is also arbalester (a Homunculus crossbow) and arcane ballista golem I believe both are from magic of eberron. They could be interesting alternate that require no one to shoot.

I assume this is an auto-correct replacement of "humungous" (and I am impressed by the auto-correct knowing "homunculus") but I really like the idea of a "homunculus corssbow", I am just not wure what it should be - either tiny (sized for a humonculus to use) or animate and intelligent in its own right?

[hamishspence]

Uh, is it supposed to be used against objects? That didn't really cross my mind, it doesn't feel like a weapon made to smash through thick castle walls.

Probably more for smashing through wooden partitions, given that the "oversized crossbow" siege weapons tend to be seen on warships (Stormwrack).

I could see them being used as defensive weapons in a siege - for blasting enemy siege towers and sows (the wooden covers used to protect rams).

The magical versions of them are being depicted firing from the top of castle walls, in the book:

http://archive.wizards.com/dnd/images/hob_gallery/89532.jpg

[Blackhawk748]

Uh, is it supposed to be used against objects? That didn't really cross my mind, it doesn't feel like a weapon made to smash through thick castle walls.

Its a Siege Weapon, so yes. As others have said its used on ships also it could break through gates. I had a character with one mounted on a wagon and it was stupidly useful

[Blue Jay]

I assume this is an auto-correct replacement of "humungous" (and I am impressed by the auto-correct knowing "homunculus").

No no: it's a homunculus. An arbalester homunculus is basically a crossbow that loads and shoots on its own.

[venturer]

try using the Aracne Ballista from Eberron's The Forge of War.

[Melcar]

Human Level 9 Fighter, Cragtop Archer 3 (Heavy Artillery)
Initiative: +2
HP: 82
AC: 20 (Touch 13, Flat-footed 18)

16 +3
14 +2
12 +1
17 +3
12 +1
10 +0

Base Attack: +12/+7/+2

Full Attack, Short Sword: +16/+11/+6
Full Attack, Crossbow: +16/+11/+6

Attack, Siege Engine: +22
Damage, Siege Engine: +12

90 skill points!

Feats:
Weapon Focus (Siege Engine)
Weapon Specialization (Siege Engine)
Greater Weapon Focus (Siege Engine)
Weapon Mastery (Siege Engine)
Improved Critical (Siege Engine)
Ballista Proficiency
Expert Siege Engineer
Point Blank
Far Shot
Enhanced Critical (Siege Engine)*
Greater Critical (Siege Engine)*
Precise Shot (Flaw)
Feat? (Flaw)

Items:
+1, Reinforced, Chain shirt
+1 Keen Short Sword
+1 Light Crossbow (20 Bolts)
Belt of Excellence +2
Ring of Protection +1
Ring of Natural Armor +1
Cloak of Resistance +1
Armbands of Might
Siege Engineering tools
Helm of: Accuracy, Hawkeye, Dragonsight, Near Horizon, Easy Math, Raptor’s Sight and Spot (+10)
(Spy)Glass of Distance


Ballista, Heavy
Attack: +?
Damange: 5d8+12 + 1d6 fire 15-20/x3
Range Increment: 1440 ft. (Max:21.600 ft.)
Weight: 3000 lbs.

Trebuchet, Heavy
Attack: +?
Damage: 14d6+12 +1d6 fire 19-20/x3
Range increment: 3060 ft. (Min range: 150 ft.) (Max range: 45.900ft.)
Weight: 24.223 lbs.




Siege Engines:
Heavy Ballista:
• Magic 2000 gp
• Enchantment +1
• Collision +2
• Distance +1
• Flaming +1
• Splitting +3
• Self-Loading +2
• Long range +100 gp
• Rotating Platform 500 gp (+1000 lbs.)
• X Crystal +6000
• Total: 208.600 gp
• Weight: 3000 lbs.


Heavy Trebuchet:
• Magic 6000 gp
• Long Range +100 gp
• Enchantment +1
• Collision +2
• Distance +1
• Rotating Platform x2 1000 gp (+2000 lbs.)
• Self-Loading +2
• Starburst +2
• Flaming Burst +2
• X Crystal +6000
• Total: 214.100 gp
• Weight: lbs. 24.223


* Third Party publication: Torn Assunder


I made this once for a high level campaign... Hope it gives you some inspiration! Granted its not 100% D&D 3.5 legal, since it uses 2 3rd party feats, but its damn close!

EDIT: If you use the Mercenaries 3rd party publication and Dragon Magazine, and you just decide that its going to be slashing dam, then you can add laminated, serrated and razor-sharp to it as a special mundane crafting techniques to add +2 dam, +1 to crit multiplier and +1 to threat range so it would do: 5d8+14, 11-20x4 crit

[liquidformat]

Human Level 9 Fighter, Cragtop Archer 3 (Heavy Artillery)
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That is pretty awesome, might I suggest for the blank feat, adjusting them around slightly to add in leadership for Melcar's cronies to help operate the siege engines? His cohort could be the main person using the trebuchet and all the followers are support to help with loading ammunition.

Another thought is making a custom version of alchemist's fire and other such alchemic items to be used as ammo. Races of the wild and arms and equipment manual have some interesting things like dragon's breath arrows and alchemist's fire fire that could be respec'ed as Ballista bolts.


No no: it's a homunculus. An arbalester homunculus is basically a crossbow that loads and shoots on its own.
Yep that wasn't an auto-correct google them they are fun, typically as an artificer you would have one perched on each shoulder to attack enemies while you blast with wands and buff...

[zergling.exe]

have one perched on each shoulder to attack enemies while you blast with wands and buff...

I don't think that'd be very comfortable for you to have a crossbow string slapping around by your face like that, if there even would be enough room. Because I don't know about you, but there's only like 6 inches between my neck and either shoulder, and that's not including space taken up by my head or how big crossbows are. It sounds like a good way to lose an ear.

[Melcar]

That is pretty awesome, might I suggest for the blank feat, adjusting them around slightly to add in leadership for Melcar's cronies to help operate the siege engines? His cohort could be the main person using the trebuchet and all the followers are support to help with loading ammunition.

It's auto loading :smallbiggrin:



I don't think that'd be very comfortable for you to have a crossbow string slapping around by your face like that, if there even would be enough room. Because I don't know about you, but there's only like 6 inches between my neck and either shoulder, and that's not including space taken up by my head or how big crossbows are. It sounds like a good way to lose an ear.

Look in Cityscape, there's a Siege Golem, which is pretty much a living siege engine!

[liquidformat]

It's auto loading :smallbiggrin:

Oh missed that, so is the idea for the character to hop from one to the other while they are reloading and fire?