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XiaoTie
2007-09-22, 03:06 PM
I started to DM a campaign last week for a group of friends. The game takes place on a homebrew setting which I created (easier to DM if you actually know everything about the setting), with (so far) no magic at all, the healing potions -such as cure light wounds- are brewed by alchemical ways, while potions like Bull's Strenght and Cat's Grace are (so far) unexistent. The non-human races known to the entire world are Orcs and Dwarves. The orcs are isolated on the northwestern corner of the continent, while the dwarves have a good relation with two of the human realms. Elves also exist, but as of now the dwarves are the only who have a vague memory about them.

We all, the 5 players and I, really like that kind of setting, so we're up to a good time.

Since the healing potions are rather scarce, during the first few levels the enemies should appear on low numbers, I don't want players getting killed by semi-zerg'ish stuff.


Here's the thing I need advice on:
¤ The characters (Female barbarian, male ranger, male rogue, male swashbuckler and male monk) are on their first 'adventure', the outcome of this 'adventure' will define the course of most of the campaign. They are soon to enter a cave used as a hideout by a few bandits. Most of those bandits were already killed by lizardmen [note: A couple centuries ago the cave was actually a hideout used by lizardmen bandits who had been exiled from their lair (connected with the cave through a series of -mostly- underwater maze)]. The only enemies they are to find inside the cave are 3 survivors, who have no knowledge about the death of their fellow bandits, killed on a area near an underground river.

Bandits:

#1- Level 1 Warrior - low to medium rolls (STR 13 | DEX 12 | CON 13 | INT 10 | WIS 10 | CHA 8), uses a light mace and a Padded Armor; Feats are Dodge, Power Attack and Improved Bull Rush. He is the typical 'trigger-happy-sort of dumb' melee character, he also smells :o.

#2- Level 1 Warrior - also low to medium rolls (STR 13 | DEX 10 | CON 11 | INT 10 | WIS 7 | CHA 14 ), uses a scythe; Feats are Endurance, Diehard and Skill Focus on Intimidate. This is one tall, badass sonova gun. He stands a bit over 7 feet, that would be pretty intimidating alone, but that's not enough for him. He wears a tattered cape of some sort, and his eyes constantly have a weird look that psychopaths normaly have. And he is Chaotic Evil. BAM!

Bandit leader:
Either a Level 1 Warrior, or, a Level 1 Aristocrat + Level 1 Warrior (total of level 2), most likelly wearing a pair of punching daggers.

Here's my doubt, how to team the three bandits, which level should the leader be ?

Possible Teams:
¤Team one: #1 + #2 | Team two: Leader
¤Team one: #1 | Team two: #2 + Leader
¤Team one: #2 | Team two: #1 + Leader

I think maybe would be better to leave the #2 bandit alone, since Scythe + 1 str mod could be one hit ko on the characters.

HALP GUIZE :O


Oh yeah, the 5 players had lucky rolls, all of them. When I say lucky, I mean nothing bellow 13 and at least one 18.

goat
2007-09-22, 03:17 PM
Are any of the PCs ranged combat based? A few lucky shots with bows and a level one character is down and out, especially if one is the rogue, successfully sneaking someone.

XiaoTie
2007-09-22, 03:21 PM
Yeah, the rogue and the ranger use bows. Short and long, respectively. Oh, and the barbarian carries a light crossbow, "just in case".
The places where the fights are suposed to happen can be a bit crowded with 7 people in it.

AslanCross
2007-09-22, 05:32 PM
The PCs are only level 1 themselves, right? I'm pretty sure they could take on the scythe-wielder since there are five of them. He doesn't have power attack, so I don't really think he would give them a hard time. I'd still want to make the "boss" fight more challenging, though. I'd leave scythe boy alone and throw in the light mace guy with the leader.

XiaoTie
2007-09-22, 05:49 PM
Thanks for the help Aslan :D

I'll let you guys know how it went after the game.
And the leader will be Aristocrat/Warrior :o, with a punching dagger and a kukri (TWF, TWD, Dodge, Weapon Focus with kukri)

Mike_Lemmer
2007-09-22, 07:41 PM
He doesn't have power attack, so I don't really think he would give them a hard time..

Well, there's a 5% chance per hit he will make their lives very, very miserable. (2d4+1)x4 = average of 24 damage on a critical hit. Odds are that'd one-shot any PC besides the barbarian (maybe). It's unlikely, but you have to consider it; there will be righteous griping if an NPC does enough damage on a crit to one-shot them.

For an alternative, drop the Skill Focus, pick up Two-Weapon Fighting, and give him two sickles. Or a scimitar and a sickle. Save the scythe for imposing clerics of death or higher levels, when they have enough HP to survive a crit like that.

KillianHawkeye
2007-09-22, 08:14 PM
Bandits:

#1- Level 1 Warrior - low to medium rolls (STR 13 | DEX 12 | CON 13 | INT 10 | WIS 10 | CHA 8), uses a light mace and a Padded Armor; Feats are Dodge, Power Attack and Improved Bull Rush. He is the typical 'trigger-happy-sort of dumb' melee character, he also smells :o.

#2- Level 1 Warrior - also low to medium rolls (STR 13 | DEX 10 | CON 11 | INT 10 | WIS 7 | CHA 14 ), uses a scythe; Feats are Endurance, Diehard and Skill Focus on Intimidate. This is one tall, badass sonova gun. He stands a bit over 7 feet, that would be pretty intimidating alone, but that's not enough for him. He wears a tattered cape of some sort, and his eyes constantly have a weird look that psychopaths normaly have. And he is Chaotic Evil. BAM!

Bandit leader:
Either a Level 1 Warrior, or, a Level 1 Aristocrat + Level 1 Warrior (total of level 2), most likelly wearing a pair of punching daggers.


And the leader will be Aristocrat/Warrior :o, with a punching dagger and a kukri (TWF, TWD, Dodge, Weapon Focus with kukri)

Are you using a house rule to give these guys extra feats? Because it seems to me they have more than they should have. Each of them should have only 2 (1 for being human, 1 for 1st level) since neither Warrior nor Aristocrat (or ANY of the NPC classes, for that matter) provide any bonus feats. But you list 3 feats for bandits #1 and #2, and 4 for the bandit leader.

I don't know if this was a mistake or on purpose, but if you wanted to tone them down you could reduce their feats or give them some nonoptimal feat choices. They aren't much of a challenge for a 5 man party unless they get lucky, though, and as DM you can fudge the rolls and just pretend it's not a critical threat if you want.

Skjaldbakka
2007-09-22, 09:52 PM
You could also throw the 'Boss' an extra 5-10 HP, to make him last a little longer, and be less one-shotable. It kinda sucks when one lucky shot is all there is to a boss fight.

XiaoTie
2007-09-23, 09:20 AM
You could also throw the 'Boss' an extra 5-10 HP, to make him last a little longer, and be less one-shotable. It kinda sucks when one lucky shot is all there is to a boss fight.

Helluva idea Skajaldbakka \o\



<snip snip snip>
Are you using a house rule to give these guys extra feats? Because it seems to me they have more than they should have. Each of them should have only 2 (1 for being human, 1 for 1st level) since neither Warrior nor Aristocrat (or ANY of the NPC classes, for that matter) provide any bonus feats. But you list 3 feats for bandits #1 and #2, and 4 for the bandit leader.

I don't know if this was a mistake or on purpose, but if you wanted to tone them down you could reduce their feats or give them some nonoptimal feat choices. They aren't much of a challenge for a 5 man party unless they get lucky, though, and as DM you can fudge the rolls and just pretend it's not a critical threat if you want.

Warrior class. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#warrior)
See, according to that they do get 1 feat at their first level. Therefore, 1 human feat, 1 class feat, 1 feat for starting as level 1.

But the only place I saw the Aristocrat class was on my Dungeon's Master book, and since the Expert (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/genericClasses.htm#expert) also has no feat on the Dungeon's Master book, I (houseruled, good ol' 'logic'; potatoes, potatoes) gave it a feat for their first class level.

The game didn't get to the bandits last night, but we stopped with some of the characters by the entrance. Today, hopefully, we'll reach the bandits lair!

Attilargh
2007-09-23, 09:35 AM
The NPC class (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/classes.htm) Warrior (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/npcClasses/warrior.htm) does not, however. The Spooky Wizards need a spooky thesaurus.

XiaoTie
2007-09-23, 11:14 AM
The NPC class (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/classes.htm) Warrior (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/npcClasses/warrior.htm) does not, however. The Spooky Wizards need a spooky thesaurus.

Ah, you see, I try to make NPC's ike players as much as possible. Otherwise it would be just "that dude we fought last battle". But I didn't knew NPCs couldn't have feats, guess I'll try not to give'em feats when they are indeed supposed to be "that dude we fought last battle", or even less than that.

Thanks for the help.

Attilargh
2007-09-23, 11:33 AM
'Ey now, I'm just saying that there are Warriors and Warriors, and you and KillianHawkeye clearly aren't talking about the same ones.

kamikasei
2007-09-23, 11:34 AM
Ah, you see, I try to make NPC's ike players as much as possible. Otherwise it would be just "that dude we fought last battle". But I didn't knew NPCs couldn't have feats, guess I'll try not to give'em feats when they are indeed supposed to be "that dude we fought last battle", or even less than that.

Thanks for the help.

No no, NPCs have feats. It's just that the "Warrior" class you were referencing isn't the NPC class from the DMG. Warrior, Expert, Aristocrat etc. are detailed in the same place on d20srd.org as the player classes, and all have feat progressions. A human Warrior has his first-level and bonus human feat, but not the bonus feat a Fighter would have.

The classes you were looking at are a non-core variant for "generic" classes, which happen, irritatingly, to share the NPC classes' names. They resemble Fighters and Rogues much more than NPC Warriors and Experts do.

Tor the Fallen
2007-09-23, 12:55 PM
Ah, you see, I try to make NPC's ike players as much as possible. Otherwise it would be just "that dude we fought last battle". But I didn't knew NPCs couldn't have feats, guess I'll try not to give'em feats when they are indeed supposed to be "that dude we fought last battle", or even less than that.

Thanks for the help.

At low levels, I highly recommend only throwing "that dude we fought last battle" mechanics at them, and work on your fluff so it doesn't appear that way.

Unless you enjoy killing your PCs.