Helping new players make good level-up decisions

[tchntm43]

I'm DMing a game and the whole party recently leveled up to 2. This led to some pretty significant decisions for the characters that will have long-term impact. The players are all new (to 5th edition, and some of them are completely new to D&D). So I wanted to help guide them a little bit as far as making good decisions.

The human wizard chose abjuration as her specialty school. I went over with her briefly all the schools and that was her decision. She already had Mage Armor (but never used it). So when she made her choice, I explained that her Mage Armor spell could be cast right before going into a dangerous place, since it lasts 8 hours, and that would trigger the Arcane Ward that gives her a bonus 8 HP for the whole day. She also got to pick a new spell, and I encouraged her to choose Shield since that would now additionally heal 2 HP for the ward. Her other main spells she's been using before this are Magic Missile, Sleep, and the Fire Bolt cantrip. She also has Find Familiar (of course) and Identify, which she has used only once. Where should she aim to go from here, especially at level 3 when she gets access to level 2 spells? I didn't see any Abjuration spells in the Wizard list for level 2 spells, interestingly, and I know she can't/shouldn't only pick Abjuration spells.

The Tiefling Ranger picked Archery as her martial archetype. When we looked at her first spells to choose, I suggested Goodberry for one of them, and we went through the others and she picked Hail of Thorns, which goes with shooting arrows, so I think that was a solid choice. I know that at level 3 she gets to pick a Ranger Archetype, either Hunter or Beast Master. The only aspect of either of them that I see that synergizes with the choices she has already made is Volley, under the Hunter Archetype, but that's not until level 11. I'm not sure that's worth considering, and maybe at this point she should just pick whatever archetype she feels she likes more, without suggestions from me.

We have a human bard with hilariously bad Dexterity (6), but he does have good stats for spellcasting in general (INT 15, WIS 17, CHA 16). He'll get to choose a Bard College at level 3, and I am guessing that the best choice would be Lore in this case? He seems not well-suited for melee combat. He had Sleep and Cure Wounds as his main spells previously, and I encouraged him to take Tasha's Hideous Laughter on level-up, after reading up more about how good it is generally. He'll also get to pick some 2nd level spells at next level-up and I could use some suggestions to pass along there.

The halfling Rogue didn't really get much going up to level 2, but he gets to choose an archetype when reaching level 3. I'm guessing most players probably go with Arcane Trickster (because casting spells is fun). I have no idea what to suggest for this player because he's kinda not really into it. Just kinda goes with the party and looks at his phone a lot. He's only 11 (the son of one of the other players). I guess I should ask which option is most likely to give the player exciting opportunities that might make him more involved in the game?

Finally, we have the Dwarf Fighter. He has the two-weapon fighting style. At level 3 he'll get to pick a Martial Archetype. I already know he wants to play a "I don't like magic" type of character so any suggestions between Champion and Battle Master? I kinda feel like the Champion archetype adds substantial bonuses without adding much complexity, and the Battle Master adds a lot of choices (and therefore, complexity). I know that he eventually wants to pick the Feat that lets him use two non-light melee weapons, because he really wants an axe in one hand and a warhammer in the other.

Let me know if you have any suggestions with these. Also if you know of any particular nuts combos that would work well for these characters. I'm still pretty new to this as well, but I'd like to be able to help them make characters that will work really well.

[Man_Over_Game]

Sometimes, you just gotta let them roam free.

Other times, it's best to let them figure out how they screwed up or what they're looking for, and what WILL work for them.

For example, for player #1, she seems like she'd actually prefer something easier to track, but with some of the cool effects that magic provides. Since she's not casting her spells very often, I'd talk to her about changing over to Warlock. With fewer spells to track and most of her abilities having no resources, there's very little that she could do while still being suboptimal.

Hunter is GREAT for a Ranged Ranger. Use Horde Breaker as a "simplified" version of Volley for now, and then she just learns the advanced technique at level 11. Escape the Horde is a great defensive ability for a Ranged Ranger, as it means that they can safely run away while being encountered in melee without being hit.

The Bard's stats aren't TERRIBLE, they're just terrible for a Bard. Consider talking to him about multiclassing with other spellcasting classes, into unorthodox situations that synergize well. Maybe have him go Lore and focus on his enhanced mental stats (a premium in 5e).

As for the Dwarf, most people don't like magic because it's not intuitive. You have ammunition of different levels, for different recipes of different levels, but recipes can be used with more ammunition than the minimum amount for additional power, and some people know a few recipes all the time while others choose recipes to know each day, and then there's the Wizard would writes down recipes but can only read a select few each day. So maybe the Battlemaster is perfect for him as a way of having a blend of complexity and intuition.
Alternatively, Barbarian really works rather well for people who both hate magic and like a weapon in each hand.

The Halfling Rogue is going to have the hardest time having fun. Consider looking up the Swashbuckler, a highly mobile rogue who talks smack in combat and dodges enemies by attacking them. An Arcane Trickster will probably leave him lost, and most other options are fairly dull in combat.

[RipTide]

Just some general advice first, don't be too pushy on your suggestions for your players. From your post it doesn't necessarily seem like you are but some of your players may feel like they can't try what they want because your the "experienced player" telling them what is best.

With that out of the way...

For the wizard, the spells they pick aren't the most important thing because a wizard can always seek out and add new spells to their spell book. That's one of the best thing about begin a wizard over something like a sorcerer. If they pick spells they don't like just let them seek out a fellow friendly wizard who is willing to trade/sell the secrets of their magic and they can pick some new spells to add to their list. Encourage you player to pick whatever they want and try something new if they don't like it, collecting an interesting spell book is part of the fun of wizard.

For the ranger, since you seem to only have the PHB, Hunter is the better choice. Beast master is a bit underwhelming overall and the animal companion tends to feel like more of a burden than a bonus. For spells good berry is a good choice since you don't have a lot of healing in the party. Hail of thorns is also a solid spell, some extra AOE is always a good thing. Another good option is Hunters Mark, an extra 1d6 damage to each weapon attack, rangers don't have many bonus actions or concentration spells so this works nicely on them.

For the Bard, if he has bad physical stats, lore bard is defiantly the way to go (its also one of my favorite classes to play in general). for spells, Dissonant whispers is a pretty solid first level spell, really good for forcing a target to run and every person in melee with that target gets an attack of opportunity. Fairy Fire is also pretty nice, it gives everyone advantage on attacks and affects everything in an an area rather than just a single target. Disguise Self and Silent Image are also pretty great out of combat spells depending on how creative the player is. For second level spells Invisibility, Phantasmal Force, Shatter, and Suggestion are my favorites. Hold Person, Blindness/Deafness, Enhance Ability, Silence, and Heat Metal can all be super helpful too but they tend to be a bit more situational.

If the rogue isn't really engaging I don't know about arcane trickster, adding the complexity of spells might turn him off even more, plus the spells arcane trickster gets are going to end up leaving him felling useless when compared to the wizard because he gets a limited wizard spell list at a much slower pace. Arcane Trickster is really good if you know how to use it but a new player, especially one that doesn't seem that interested probably wont have the right mentality going in. Assassin can put out some big numbers which can help to get a less engaged player interested, so i would encourage him to look at that. Though getting the players opinion should really be the first step.

For the fighter you got it right. Champion is more about passive bonuses and doesn't add to much complexity. Battle master allows for some more tactical fighting. Neither really gets in the way of using Two weapon fighting and both work just fine so its really up to the player whether they want to be a more or less mechanically complex character.

[Keravath]

Which sources are you using ... most of the choices you mention come from the player's hand book but you might want to consider adding Xanathar's guide to everything since it includes a number of additional options ... unless you are trying to avoid choice :)

Some quick comments:

1) Abduration is fine. Divination is also a popular choice due to the portent ability. Evoker can be very cool since you can control your damaging spells to avoid a certain number of your team mates making it safe to drop fireballs on your front line ... very convenient.

2) A ranged weapon ranger is a classic choice. Hunter is a good archetype. However, every ranger should have the hunter's mark spell since it increases the damage of every hit you make by d6. Colossus slayer also allows you to do more damage to targets that have already been damaged once per round (which is usually most of them). Horde breaker is a little more situational since it depends on the DM putting enemies next to each other. It may also not work that well if the party is focus firing opponents since then the ranger is stuck choosing between taking out the high priority target or getting an extra attack but possibly allowing another round of combat. I usually would choose colossus slayer but folks will go either way.

3) The bard has a significant problem with their AC. A 6 gives a -2 for AC and bards can only wear light armor and no shields which will give them an AC of 10. If they ever get in melee, everything will hit them. The problem is that the high mental stats (other than charisma) are only useful for role playing, multiclassing, some skills and small boosts to saving throws. This character will need to ensure that they stay at the back. Lore bards are very good at skills and cutting words is a very useful reaction they can use. However, the bard really needs to take the healing word spell to provide healing in combat since the healing options in your party are very limited. The bard will also be pretty poor at ranged weapon attacks and will have to use strength for any melee weapon attack assuming their strength is better.

4) The halfling rogue got one of the best feature of the rogue class at level 2 with cunning action. Bonus action to dash, disengage or hide is extremely useful. Rogues can make very good ranged damage characters since they can add sneak attack dice if they have advantage or if they have a team mate beside the target. Arcane trickster is also good since the rogue can take the find familiar spell. The familiar can be an owl which can take the help action in combat to give the rogue advantage on their attack and enable sneak attack. The rogue can also achieve this by ducking behind a corner and hiding or if they are a lightfoot halfling they can duck behind a creature that is a size or more larger, hide, then step out and take a ranged sneak attack with advantage (most DMs won't allow moving any farther than just into line of sight to make the attack). I think the hiding ... rolling with advantage and rolling extra sneak attack dice will appeal to an 11 year old unless they are just not into it at all. Emphasize how sneaky and cool they are. Make sure that they have taken expertise in stealth and maxed out there dexterity though. Xanathar's has some other options. Swashbuckler is a good choice for a melee rogue but it is good for a swashbuckler to have decent charisma so I don't know if this option would work for this character.

5) Dwarf fighter. Two weapon fighting style appears to be considered a bit less effective than the other methods of fighting. If they like the style though then just go for it. Fighters get mostly short rest resources compared to the other classes in the party that are mostly long rest. Action surge is a very useful ability but once /short rest so they need to consider when to use it. As for archetypes, champion is the easiest since it mostly just increases your critical hit range while battlemaster has a number of maneuvers that again are restored on a short rest. These can be very effective in combat but can get used up if you have a lot of fights. The battlemaster is probably the more powerful and flexible archetype while champion is certainly easier to play from a mechanics point of view. Choice would depend on what you think the player wants to play.


D&D has organized play called Adventurer's League run out of local gaming stores. One key characteristic of AL is that the players can rebuild their characters all they want up until they turn level 5. This lets players try out things and tweak if they aren't happy with the character/class/race they have chosen. You might want to consider something similar ... perhaps allowing the players to switch out some of the things they don't like or even move stats around. (For example, although the 6 dex bard will be playable ... a newer player might have some trouble working around the challenges that character will have in combat due to the 6 dex. Depending on what their strength is consider swapping str and dex. Ideally a bard should have a reasonable dex and con and a high charisma as their main stats.

[MaxWilson]

I'm DMing a game and the whole party recently leveled up to 2. This led to some pretty significant decisions for the characters that will have long-term impact. *snip*

Let me know if you have any suggestions with these. Also if you know of any particular nuts combos that would work well for these characters. I'm still pretty new to this as well, but I'd like to be able to help them make characters that will work really well.

If I were you, I'd focus on just tweaking my rules so that the decisions won't have such a long-term impact. For example, you could just straight-up tell your players that any of the decisions they're making now can be changed later on at a cost of e.g. 1000 XP for change, so if someone winds up unhappy with their Protection Fighting Style they can change it to Dueling between adventures for 1000 XP. (Just an example, you could alter the costs to taste.)

Another way to do it would be to encourage players to make character trees (DarkSun term for basically alternate PCs), and every time the onscreen PC goes up a level, you get to raise the level on an offscreen PC too of equal or lower level. My players have had fun with that in the past.

Psychology research has shown that when users have some kind of "undo button" they are more likely to experiment freely with a new interface, so instead of trying to ensure that your players definitely get it right on the first try I'm suggesting that you consider making sure they don't have to get it right on the first try. You are after all the DM--final responsibility for the game rules lies with you, not with the rules in the rulebook.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Two major pieces of advice from someone who plays dominantly with new players:

1. Let them take a mulligan on long-term choices, up to and including letting them swap spells, subclasses, or even do a complete rebuild. AL lets that happen at any time up to level 5, which I think is a fair threshold.

2. When they pick something less "powerful" but that they're excited about, make it useful. Present situations where it can do good or let it work as an outside-the-box idea. Reward creative thinking, especially from those most prone to analysis paralysis. Once they see that there isn't a "correct" answer, they'll be more willing to try different things.

[Malifice]

Let them pick.

Stay out of it totally as DM unless you're asked to provide help (and even then, only make suggestions based on what the player wants from the PC).

[tchntm43]

Thanks for the information, a lot of things to think about...

I should have mentioned, I do have the Xanathar book. I got it mostly for the information on Tools and downtime activities. I haven't even read much into the extended character subtypes myself yet. It seemed like it was adding more complexity than I or my player group would be ready for at this point.

I'm definitely not pushing the players into their decisions. It's more that I know several of them are having a difficult time with the game's complexity, and if I ask them just to pick one without saying anything, they look at me blankly and kinda go "I dunno." None of them have looked at the PHB, for example. Usually what I do is tell them what the options are and if there's a synergy between one option and something they have already, I point that out.

I should have made it more clear that this is a bit of a difficult play group. It's a family play group. We have one player who is elderly and easily confused. We have one player who is 11 and easily distracted. We have another player with a learning disability and her reading and math skills are less than those of the 11-year-old. So yes, I help them as much as I see fit to make sure they are having as much fun as possible. :)

[MaxWilson]

Thanks for the information, a lot of things to think about...

I should have mentioned, I do have the Xanathar book. I got it mostly for the information on Tools and downtime activities. I haven't even read much into the extended character subtypes myself yet. It seemed like it was adding more complexity than I or my player group would be ready for at this point.

I'm definitely not pushing the players into their decisions. It's more that I know several of them are having a difficult time with the game's complexity, and if I ask them just to pick one without saying anything, they look at me blankly and kinda go "I dunno." None of them have looked at the PHB, for example. Usually what I do is tell them what the options are and if there's a synergy between one option and something they have already, I point that out.

I should have made it more clear that this is a bit of a difficult play group. It's a family play group. We have one player who is elderly and easily confused. We have one player who is 11 and easily distracted. We have another player with a learning disability and her reading and math skills are less than those of the 11-year-old. So yes, I help them as much as I see fit to make sure they are having as much fun as possible. :)

Frankly, 5E sounds like a little bit of an odd choice for such a casual play group, what with its emphasis on fiddly little bonuses and resource-driven abilities. To be clear, I think they can and I'm sure they are having a good time just ignoring all of those little bonuses and abilities and just using their imaginations--but I think trying to encourage them to "build" optimal characters is probably pushing them in a fairly fruitless direction.

Given what you've said I'd probably either just let them do whatever they want with the PHB, not worrying about their decisions, or simplify the game even further and maybe switch to a different system entirely. It certainly doesn't sound like their fun is going to be dependent on doing XYZ amount of damage or having at least N tactical options in any given situation. This sounds more like the kind of group whose fun is dependent on befriending interesting NPCs, taming friendly dinosaurs, having scary moments with giants and ogres but still coming out alive, etc.

I have a group of friends kind of like your family (some easily-confused or distractible or bad at math), and in the past they've shown way more interest in DramaSystem than 5E. I'm sure there are other good systems for them--I hear good things about Dungeon World for example, because every move a monster makes is always in reaction to something a player just did (i.e. monsters don't get their own turns), which seems like a good fit for a casual, math-challenged group who won't be bothered by the odd asymmetry between player character and monster action tempos.

[ImproperJustice]

I think I GM in a similar manner to you and I will share what I have learned from the past few decades.

Even if it pains your soul to see your PCs choose all manner of poor combinations, only provide help if they ask or vent frustration.
Even then only offer to provide help.

Any other means will often feel intrusive by the players. Also, we have to be careful not to deny them the feeling of “owning” their PCs and making their own choices.

One day they will look back and laugh at some of their picks maybe, but the goal is for them to remember their characters fondly.

Help them develop a love of the game, and the rules stuff will come much eaiser for them later.

[Man_Over_Game]

Frankly, 5E sounds like a little bit of an odd choice for such a casual play group, what with its emphasis on fiddly little bonuses and resource-driven abilities. To be clear, I think they can and I'm sure they are having a good time just ignoring all of those little bonuses and abilities and just using their imaginations--but I think trying to encourage them to "build" optimal characters is probably pushing them in a fairly fruitless direction.

Given what you've said I'd probably either just let them do whatever they want with the PHB, not worrying about their decisions, or simplify the game even further and maybe switch to a different system entirely. It certainly doesn't sound like their fun is going to be dependent on doing XYZ amount of damage or having at least N tactical options in any given situation. This sounds more like the kind of group whose fun is dependent on befriending interesting NPCs, taming friendly dinosaurs, having scary moments with giants and ogres but still coming out alive, etc.

I have a group of friends kind of like your family (some easily-confused or distractible or bad at math), and in the past they've shown way more interest in DramaSystem than 5E. I'm sure there are other good systems for them--I hear good things about Dungeon World for example, because every move a monster makes is always in reaction to something a player just did (i.e. monsters don't get their own turns), which seems like a good fit for a casual, math-challenged group who won't be bothered by the odd asymmetry between player character and monster action tempos.

I agree with what MW said. Consider looking into something a bit easier to get into, like FATE. Just roleplay your character, get rewarded for it, and without much emphasis on strategy or mechanics. The dice end up choosing what direction the story goes, but otherwise mechanics aren't a very strict part of success in FATE. Sometimes, you can have fun without overthinking it.

[Laserlight]

Back in 4e days, one guy kept rushing in and almost getting killed, and it turns out that he thought his character was a tank, when it wasn't. I talked to him about "forget what class you think you want to play -- what do you want to do?" and we found something that worked a lot better for him.

Generally speaking, when I've got new-to-5e people, I ask them if, in combat, they want to hurt the enemy, help your friends, or some mix? Then do you want to do that by using magic, or by sword/bow/axe? Do you want to wear a lot of armor, or just regular clothes? Give them a series of binary choices and work it down to "I want to hurt the enemy, by hitting them, and I don't want to wear a lot of armor but I want to be really tough", okay, you're a barbarian.

[CTurbo]

I would keep things as simple as possible. No multiclassing and maybe even no feats at least at first. Keeping magic to a minimum may be a good idea too.

When I DMed a family group, we were really low magic. My mother in law was a Barbarian, my wife a Champion Fighter, and her sister a Thief Rogue. The other 2 players who had some experience played the magic users a Cleric and a Warlock. This made the game easy for them and they had fun.

I'm most worried about the Bard. Why is their Dex so bad? I recommend letting them swap their Dex and Int or Wis scores. It would help out a lot.

I would consider offering each player a free feat after a level or 2 more to help boost an area that they feel their character may be lacking. Maybe the Fighter wants to use bigger weapons and Dual Wielder would make them happy. Maybe the Wizard could take Magic Initiate to add a decent Abjurer spell to their list and a couple cantrips they otherwise wouldn't have access too. Maybe the Bard is really unhappy always going last in combat due to a terrible Initiative and Alert would help them a lot.

[MThurston]

No multiclassing.
No feats.

Let them figure it out.

[opaopajr]

No multiclassing.
No feats.

Let them figure it out.

Seconded.

Also, given the family dynamic, I'd be tempted to keep it at Basic 5e and only include exceptions when they specifically care about a character concept. This way you do the heavy lifting and they focus on play. Otherwise it's TMI (too much info) when their likely bigger selling point is playing together as a family. :smallcool:

[tchntm43]

I'm most worried about the Bard. Why is their Dex so bad? I recommend letting them swap their Dex and Int or Wis scores. It would help out a lot.

I'm going to do this. I explained generally what all the ability scores were and let him pick where to put them, but he did not really choose well. I'll tell him he can move the 17 to Charisma, the 16 to Dexterity, and the 6 to Wisdom, but it's ultimately his choice. Going last almost all the time after 2 adventures split over 3 weekends must have gotten annoying by this point, so hopefully he'll take the offer.

[tchntm43]

Seconded.

Also, given the family dynamic, I'd be tempted to keep it at Basic 5e and only include exceptions when they specifically care about a character concept. This way you do the heavy lifting and they focus on play. Otherwise it's TMI (too much info) when their likely bigger selling point is playing together as a family. :smallcool:

Yeah, I'm basically not even mentioning the concept of multi-classing, but if one of them ever asks me "is there any way I can gain levels in cleric and then come back to gaining levels in fighter" I can make an exception. And, like I mentioned before, I already know the dwarf fighter wants to be able to use non-light weapons with two-weapon fighting.

Speaking of me doing the heavy lifting... I do a lot. Like I created 2-page "help sheets" that have info on all the general combat actions, how rest works, advantage/disadvantage, saving throws... I created spell description sheets where I copied the full description text from the PHB for each spell the character has.

One of the things I'm considering doing is reorganizing the spell lists in the PHB, because it's awful the way it's laid out for people who have no idea what any of the spells do. You get a list of spells for a given class and level in alphabetical order, and that's great, but then you have to hunt down each spell individually for the description (all the spells for all classes and levels are mixed together alphabetically), so if you want to know what all your choices are at level up, that's a ton of flipping back and forth. This way, when the Bard (for example) hits level 3, I can show him a sheet of all the level 2 bard spells complete with descriptions, so he can pick which one to learn.

[MThurston]

Yeah, I'm basically not even mentioning the concept of multi-classing, but if one of them ever asks me "is there any way I can gain levels in cleric and then come back to gaining levels in fighter" I can make an exception. And, like I mentioned before, I already know the dwarf fighter wants to be able to use non-light weapons with two-weapon fighting.

Speaking of me doing the heavy lifting... I do a lot. Like I created 2-page "help sheets" that have info on all the general combat actions, how rest works, advantage/disadvantage, saving throws... I created spell description sheets where I copied the full description text from the PHB for each spell the character has.

One of the things I'm considering doing is reorganizing the spell lists in the PHB, because it's awful the way it's laid out for people who have no idea what any of the spells do. You get a list of spells for a given class and level in alphabetical order, and that's great, but then you have to hunt down each spell individually for the description (all the spells for all classes and levels are mixed together alphabetically), so if you want to know what all your choices are at level up, that's a ton of flipping back and forth. This way, when the Bard (for example) hits level 3, I can show him a sheet of all the level 2 bard spells complete with descriptions, so he can pick which one to learn.

The dwarf fighter should take two weapon fighting. It drops the light part of the rule.

[DanyBallon]

As a DM to another, please let them make their own choice without any advice from you unless they ask for it.
If you believe they made bad choice, let them experience it, and as for you make sure they still have fun playing the game, don't try to punish them for their un-optimal choice. :smallsmile:

[MThurston]

As a DM to another, please let them make their own choice without any advice from you unless they ask for it.
If you believe they made bad choice, let them experience it, and as for you make sure they still have fun playing the game, don't try to punish them for their un-optimal choice. :smallsmile:

We need a way to like a post. This one was good.

[Man_Over_Game]

The dwarf fighter should take two weapon fighting. It drops the light part of the rule.

I think MThurston means to suggest grabbing the Dual Wielder feat.

[opaopajr]

Yeah, I'm basically not even mentioning the concept of multi-classing, but if one of them ever asks me "is there any way I can gain levels in cleric and then come back to gaining levels in fighter" I can make an exception. And, like I mentioned before, I already know the dwarf fighter wants to be able to use non-light weapons with two-weapon fighting.

Speaking of me doing the heavy lifting... I do a lot. Like I created 2-page "help sheets" that have info on all the general combat actions, how rest works, advantage/disadvantage, saving throws... I created spell description sheets where I copied the full description text from the PHB for each spell the character has.

One of the things I'm considering doing is reorganizing the spell lists in the PHB, because it's awful the way it's laid out for people who have no idea what any of the spells do. You get a list of spells for a given class and level in alphabetical order, and that's great, but then you have to hunt down each spell individually for the description (all the spells for all classes and levels are mixed together alphabetically), so if you want to know what all your choices are at level up, that's a ton of flipping back and forth. This way, when the Bard (for example) hits level 3, I can show him a sheet of all the level 2 bard spells complete with descriptions, so he can pick which one to learn.

Good for you! :smallsmile: You have a group that could definitely use the smoothing over. This actually might be a good example of a group that could benefit from Spell Cards and a Basic (Combat) Actions + Conditions cheat sheet. Just like you would make your own GM Screen, make a version for players so they can lay it flat and select Basic Actions like a McDonalds picture menu.

The fun for them is likely participating in what you are interested in. (... Exccept for the cellphone neighbor friend kid, which there is not much you can do besides chat and find their interests. But that's an awkward age, so maybe best to leave well enough alone.)

[Crgaston]

One of the things I'm considering doing is reorganizing the spell lists in the PHB, because it's awful the way it's laid out for people who have no idea what any of the spells do. You get a list of spells for a given class and level in alphabetical order, and that's great, but then you have to hunt down each spell individually for the description (all the spells for all classes and levels are mixed together alphabetically), so if you want to know what all your choices are at level up, that's a ton of flipping back and forth. This way, when the Bard (for example) hits level 3, I can show him a sheet of all the level 2 bard spells complete with descriptions, so he can pick which one to learn.

This might be helpful... the PHB spell section is a chore for sure.

https://thebombzen.com/grimoire/

[Throne12]

All you need to tell them that. You are not going to tell them what to pick but if they have any questions. You will welcome to provide your opinion. Form your post I feel smothered.