Disguise Self to look like a Mindflayer?

[theomc]

So ignoring the other issues (psionics, etc.) Is there any reason a wizard couldn't use Disguise Self to look like a Mindflayer? Searched spell and it doesn't say anything about "humanoid" or "non-aberration" etc.

[Unoriginal]

So ignoring the other issues (psionics, etc.) Is there any reason a wizard couldn't use Disguise Self to look like a Mindflayer? Searched spell and it doesn't say anything about "humanoid" or "non-aberration" etc.

The reason is that Disguise Self cannot imitate creatures that have more limbs than the being it's cast on.

Mind Flayers have 4 fully prehensile tentacles on their faces, making Disguise Self not work.

[darknite]

It doesn't specify the form needs to be a humanoid (vs a Mindflayer, which is an Aberation). I don't see why you couldn't do this, though adding the tentacles sort of violates the "cannot change your body type" clause, but I'd just wrap that into the overall check that Disguise Self has to be detected. And of course the tentacles would only be illusory.

[Unoriginal]

It doesn't specify the form needs to be a humanoid (vs a Mindflayer, which is an Aberation). I don't see why you couldn't do this, though adding the tentacles sort of violates the "cannot change your body type" clause, but I'd just wrap that into the overall check that Disguise Self has to be detected. And of course the tentacles would only be illusory.

Tentacles are limbs. If you can't make an illusion of tail with that spell, you can't make an illusion of tentacles.

[Zanthy1]

Tentacles are limbs. If you can't make an illusion of tail with that spell, you can't make an illusion of tentacles.

So if you were a 9 tailed.....tabaxi then you could disguise self as a mindflayer, just disguising those tails to be tentacles?

[Azgeroth]

So if you were a 9 tailed.....tabaxi then you could disguise self as a mindflayer, just disguising those tails to be tentacles?

if those tails protruded from your face, sure!

[Zanthy1]

if those tails protruded from your face, sure!

Or you have butt tentacles.

[darknite]

Tentacles are limbs. If you can't make an illusion of tail with that spell, you can't make an illusion of tentacles.

I mentioned that. I'd still allow it because ... magic but make a harder DC to pull it off.

[chokfull]

I think you could do it if you weren't able to control the tentacles. You can add accessories, so why not a really convincing set of fake tentacles? That could give advantage on a check to see through the disguise (especially from other mind flayers), but I don't see why it couldn't be done.

[Unoriginal]

I mentioned that. I'd still allow it because ... magic but make a harder DC to pull it off.

Well, personally, I'm against making spells do more than what they are explicitly said to be capable of because "it's magic".

Magic and spells have limits. Disguise already allows you to disguise yourself without check.


I think you could do it if you weren't able to control the tentacles. You can add accessories, so why not a really convincing set of fake tentacles? That could give advantage on a check to see through the disguise (especially from other mind flayers), but I don't see why it couldn't be done.

Because the spells specifically says it cannot be done.

If you want to put fake tentacles on your face, it's already going to be an ability check with disguise's kit proficiency, so the Disguise spell adds nothing to it.

You're better off using Mage Hand to make the tentacles move or the like.

[Ganymede]

Tentacles are limbs. If you can't make an illusion of tail with that spell, you can't make an illusion of tentacles.

I'm not going to be so fast to describe an Illithid's mouth-tentacles as limbs. They seem more analogous to tongues or lips to me.

[da_chicken]

The reason is that Disguise Self cannot imitate creatures that have more limbs than the being it's cast on.

That's not really what the spell says. What it says is, "You can't change your body type, so you must adopt a form that has the same basic arrangement of limbs." To me that says, "Something that has a similar overall skeletal structure. No tigers, no thri-kreen, no dragons, etc." A Mind Flayer absolutely has the same body type as the standard PC races (necessarily so, if you're familiar with Mind Flayer biology). They also an example of adding a hat to your outfit, so clearly adding something that wasn't there is within the scope of the spell.

The question I'd have would be: Does the caster actually know what a Mind Flayer looks like? It's not like there's photographs of them lying around. People are notoriously bad at figuring out what things look like (https://hyperallergic.com/307949/terrible-taxidermy-from-when-exotic-animals-were-unknown-in-the-west/). I would probably make less familiar and more alien races be more likely to be discovered.

[Unoriginal]

I'm not going to be so fast to describe an Illithid's mouth-tentacles as limbs. They seem more analogous to tongues or lips to me.

They can lift objects several feet away from the Illithid's face, with enough precision to write with them, and they're constantly out and moving.

It's not like a frog's tongue that can extent out of the mouth for a brief instant before getting back in.


That's not really what the spell says. What it says is, "You can't change your body type, so you must adopt a form that has the same basic arrangement of limbs." To me that says, "Something that has a similar overall skeletal structure. No tigers, no thri-kreen, no dragons, etc." A Mind Flayer absolutely has the same body type as the standard PC races (necessarily so, if you're familiar with Mind Flayer biology). They also an example of adding a hat to your outfit, so clearly adding something that wasn't there is within the scope of the spell.


Pretty sure the example given in the spell is Disguise not being able to imitate a tail. So an human would have to Disguise into a tail-less tabaxi or lizardfolk. I don't think feet-long tentacles coming from your face would somehow be more possible to replicate.

[Demonslayer666]

So ignoring the other issues (psionics, etc.) Is there any reason a wizard couldn't use Disguise Self to look like a Mindflayer? Searched spell and it doesn't say anything about "humanoid" or "non-aberration" etc.

I would allow it to pass at a glance, but not under careful observation. You wouldn't be able to wiggle them around and act like a mindflayer, it would be more like a beard.

[Ganymede]

They can lift objects several feet away from the Illithid's face, with enough precision to write with them, and they're constantly out and moving.

It's not like a frog's tongue that can extent out of the mouth for a brief instant before getting back in.

It sounds like you're comparing a fantastical face to a mundane arm. It is clearly enough for you but it isn't enough for me.

[dragoeniex]

I would allow it to pass at a glance, but not under careful observation. You wouldn't be able to wiggle them around and act like a mindflayer, it would be more like a beard.

Seconding this one. A beard in terms of movement/hanging, and nothing further. If you're discreet, that can be fine, but it's not a great time to get engaged in mind talks.

I understand Unoriginal's point, but it's really a DM call, and DMs will differ on this one. Argument for full limbs is valid, while other people will go "Eh, it's kind of in their nose area, I guess, so sure."

[Ganryu]

Also things I have learned, cause I did this in a campaign... don't try to infiltrate a mindflayer colony like this.... especially as the rogue fo the party. Turns out their psionic communications is very important to them. And the only people who cannot do so are the exiled for HUGE crimes who managed not to die.

I say depends on your GM.

[XmonkTad]

Pretty sure the example given in the spell is Disguise not being able to imitate a tail. So an human would have to Disguise into a tail-less tabaxi or lizardfolk. I don't think feet-long tentacles coming from your face would somehow be more possible to replicate.

I think this tweet (https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/694949841059774465) is what you're referring to.
If the tentacles are limbs, then disguise self doesn't work. It seems from the tweet that a "limb" is defined by its "prehensile nature." Therefore, if a mind flayer can write with it's limbs (at least by RAW it can grab your head while removing your brain), they count as limbs, therefore, no to mind flayer.

However, the spell doesn't say you need to pick a form that already exists and adopt it. You could pick "something that looks exactly like a mindflayer, but has a beard with tentacle-like dreadlocks instead of tentacles". Depending on the observer, that might be good enough.

[darknite]

Well, personally, I'm against making spells do more than what they are explicitly said to be capable of because "it's magic".

Magic and spells have limits. Disguise already allows you to disguise yourself without check. ...


I see your point, but I'd still allow it though at a disadvantage. Much like I'd allow a human to use Disguise Self to impersonate a Tabaxi with tail, though the tail would be illusory only and probably incur a DC shift to make it move in a naturalistic way.

[theomc]

Cool, thanks guys.
I'm going to angle for "has tentacles on face, but they just kinda hang there", maybe giving anyone taking a good look advantage on a perception check. The goal is to try and order some derro minions to move to another post to give our group a gap to sneak through. I'm hoping their fear of their mindflayer overlords plus some convincing performance (my Bladesinger actually gets to use her Performance proficiency, woohoo!) will get them moving for a little bit.

[Connington]

Cool, thanks guys.
I'm going to angle for "has tentacles on face, but they just kinda hang there", maybe giving anyone taking a good look advantage on a perception check.

This ia how I would do it. "Limp face-acles” seems equivalent to a long beard or hat. Disadvantage against anything that's seen a Mind Flayer before is definitely appropriate, and I likely wouldn't bother rolling Deception against a Mind Flayer if the PC doesn't have some form of Telepathy.

[theomc]

This ia how I would do it. "Limp face-acles” seems equivalent to a long beard or hat. Disadvantage against anything that's seen a Mind Flayer before is definitely appropriate, and I likely wouldn't bother rolling Deception against a Mind Flayer if the PC doesn't have some form of Telepathy.

Oh yeah, we already tried "sneaking passed" a mindflayer. It didn't go well (or it went great, since we got away and the mindflayer's dead now...)