Epic familiar for 3.5?

[redking]

Are there any epic familiars for 3.5? I know about all the familiar variants (improved familiar and the various sourcebook familiars + dragon magazine). What I am looking for is actual epic familiars, even if it is third party or homebrew material.

[gkathellar]

Not sure what you're asking. There's no way that I'm familiar with to make an epic monster into a familiar, if that's your question (that'd be more in the animal companion vein, really). There is epic-level content related to familiars (here's the continued progression (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/classProgressions.htm#familiarsAtEpicLevel), and here's the Familiar Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#familiarSpell) epic feat).

[Falontani]

See if your dm would be willing to complete the Dragon familiar table with force and prismatic dragons

[noob]

Are there any epic familiars for 3.5? I know about all the familiar variants (improved familiar and the various sourcebook familiars + dragon magazine). What I am looking for is actual epic familiars, even if it is third party or homebrew material.

Be a murkdweller and pick yourself as a familiar.
You get an epic familiar at level 21.
Also it means you start getting your int to progress naturally after some time and you have an absolutely massive boost to armor class.

[gkathellar]

Be a murkdweller and pick yourself as a familiar.

Where is this from?

[noob]

Where is this from?

Probably from serpent kingdoms: it is a monster that is both playable and a familiar pick.

[gkathellar]

Probably from serpent kingdoms: it is a monster that is both playable and a familiar pick.

I feel like that book is responsible for a disproportionately large amount of capital-w Weird Crap.

[hamishspence]

I don't think it ever specifically allowed you to nominate yourself as a familiar though.

[Malphegor]

though that is a intriguing idea. A wizard who had themselves as their familiar... I guess all it’d give them is spell resistance and the ability to speak to others of their kind... Oh and a spellcasting stat greatly lowered but steadily growing as you play...

[MaxiDuRaritry]

DvR 1+ deities can designate any mortal creature as their familiar, even if said mortal creatures are stronger than they are.

[hamishspence]

Makes me think of D20 Munchkin:


"If you have Squidzilla as your familiar ... and you complain because he's a wuss ... you might be a Munchkin."

[Ruethgar]

DvR 1+ deities can designate any mortal creature as their familiar, even if said mortal creatures are stronger than they are.

Could you theoretically keep the familiar after giving away your DvR? Say get Extra Familiar and Improved Familiar(Mirror Mephit) to get a DvR from the Beggar God, get a divine familiar and then dismiss the Mephit and shuffle away the Extra and Improved Familiar and give your god a bonus divine rank(yay Mystra!) and you’re back to “normal” with a Paragon Avatar of a Levithan familiar.

Edit: As a side note, this combo makes double casting Familiar Form a much, much better spell for lvl 7+. That ‘can use the body as your own’ bit is so open to abuse compared to the somewhat more limiting Magic Jar counterpart. Just be sure to dismiss it as your familiar so you get it’s full health instead of half of your own(and pick up another of whatever it is as your actual familiar).

[Elkad]

though that is a intriguing idea. A wizard who had themselves as their familiar... I guess all it’d give them is spell resistance and the ability to speak to others of their kind... Oh and a spellcasting stat greatly lowered but steadily growing as you play...

If you went in as a Sorc (eww, Cha penalty), taking yourself as a familiar at L5 (or 6), you'd have 8int, +3NA, and Improved Evasion. Fairly decent, and it only gets better.

There's an argument to be made that your HP would go up 50% as well. Or a NI amount. I'll skip by that.

[redking]

Not sure what you're asking. There's no way that I'm familiar with to make an epic monster into a familiar, if that's your question (that'd be more in the animal companion vein, really). There is epic-level content related to familiars (here's the continued progression (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/classProgressions.htm#familiarsAtEpicLevel), and here's the Familiar Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#familiarSpell) epic feat).

Looks like my question was a bit of a fail. I am not talking about epic monsters as familiars (most of them would be more powerful than an epic character), but familiars stronger than those in the improved familiar or darkness familiar feats for example. Familiar -> improved familiar -> epic familiar.

Let me give an example.

Epic Familiar [Epic] [General]

When you are ready and able to acquire a new familiar, you may choose one of several nonstandard familiars.
Prerequisite: Ability to acquire a new familiar, compatible alignment, level 21+.
Benefit: When choosing a familiar, you may add the following creatures to your list of options. You may choose a familiar with an alignment up to one step away from yours on each of the alignment axes (lawful-chaotic and good-evil).

Bearded Devil (Barbazu), Chain Devil (Kyton), Hellcat (Bezekira), Will-O’-Wisp, Succubus, Babau, Doppelganger, Griffon, Invisible Stalker, Nightmare.

The above isn't a comprehensive list and isn't meant to cover all alignments. Rather its a rough indicator of the kinds of 'epic familiars' that I am talking about. Well?

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If you want a really powerful familiar, go changeling, take the changeling wizard racial level to let your familiar change into whatever you can summon as a standard action (its, not yours), take Improved Familiar to access almost every single familiar ever printed, and take a few levels in the spell sovereign PrC to let your familiar shapeshift into living spells (which are oozes that can cast the spells they're made from at-will), and then take Extra Familiar a few times. Watch as your army of spellcasting oozes cast every low level spell in the game whenever you want them to. You can also toss your regular familiar for an ACF and take Obtain Familiar to massively improve your familiars if you PrC a lot. Then take other feats that improve familiars, to boot.

Even better if you can find some way to let your familiars shapeshift as a move or swift action each round.

[redking]

If you want a really powerful familiar, go changeling, take the changeling wizard racial level to let your familiar change into whatever you can summon as a standard action (its, not yours), take Improved Familiar to access almost every single familiar ever printed, and take a few levels in the spell sovereign PrC to let your familiar shapeshift into living spells (which are oozes that can cast the spells they're made from at-will), and then take Extra Familiar a few times. Watch as your army of spellcasting oozes cast every low level spell in the game whenever you want them to. You can also toss your regular familiar for an ACF and take Obtain Familiar to massively improve your familiars if you PrC a lot. Then take other feats that improve familiars, to boot.

Even better if you can find some way to let your familiars shapeshift as a move or swift action each round.

I wonder how much of this hypothetical optimization gets past an actual DM. It wouldn't get past me.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I wonder how much of this hypothetical optimization gets past an actual DM. It wouldn't get past me.And what part of this doesn't work? Or isn't thematic? Or isn't really, really cool?

And anyway, we're talking about epic here. Are you saying this is worse than Epic Spellcasting, especially for the amount of effort you put into getting it?

You can get Innate Spell, which grants infinite level 1 spells, and that's not even an epic feat. And that's just one feat, not half your build.

[redking]

And what part of this doesn't work? Or isn't thematic? Or isn't really, really cool?

The DM would just say no. To whit -


You can get Innate Spell, which grants infinite level 1 spells, and that's not even an epic feat. And that's just one feat, not half your build.

Is a 3.0 version and insane, and was thus limited to 3/day in 3.5.

[noob]

If you went in as a Sorc (eww, Cha penalty), taking yourself as a familiar at L5 (or 6), you'd have 8int, +3NA, and Improved Evasion. Fairly decent, and it only gets better.

There's an argument to be made that your HP would go up 50% as well. Or a NI amount. I'll skip by that.

The hit points of a familiar is the best value between half of the hit points of his master and his normal amount of hit points so you do not gain hit points from picking yourself as a familiar unless you had negative hit points.