Poaching Pathfinder Playtest 3 Action economy

[Johaan05]

Hello Everyone,

First time post, and a huge fan of the base of players here. I wanted to kick around some houserules I've come up with that emulate the 3 action rounds that is presented in the Pathfinder Playtest. Obviously these are minor and any true 3 action system would have to be baked in when designed. The goal is to allow more options to players and monsters yet not overshadow much of certain classes special abilities. These suggestions do not change the 1 Reaction per turn.

Currently every player gets = Action (w/Extra Attacks) // Bonus Action // Move Action. I propose giving up the Bonus or Move for other options listed below


| Action + "Double Action" | Give up your Bonus and Move actions to get a "Double Action".
This can be used to do anything an Action can accomplish except the Extra Attack ability & movement (see below).
This "Double Action" would cause any Weapon/Spell attack to be at Disadvantage. Any spell saving throw is made with Advantage.
Use an Item also is at Disadvantage as applicable (Wand spells save at advantage etc…)
Casting a "Double Action" spell is still limited to a cantrip [pg.202] and attacks or saves are similarly affected as above. (unless your DM allows higher like Critical Role)
| Action + Bonus + "Extra Bonus" | Give up your Move action to get a "Extra Bonus". This has the same limitations as the "Double Action" in regards to Disadvantage on attacks and spells.
However the operation of spells and effects that take a Bonus action without an attack or save (e.g. Heat Metal damage) operate as normal.



Also I am proposing 2 other uses of your Bonus action and Move action to enable more options to players.


| Action + "Sprint Bonus" + Move | Exchange your Bonus action for a "Sprint Bonus". Move an additional 10'.
You cannot take this if your total move available is not at least 21'. Any effect that reduces your speed to 20' or less prevents this Bonus action.
Reduction in speed due to difficult terrain or other obsticles will not prevent the use of "Sprint Bonus".
| Action + Bonus + "Tactical Move" | Exchange your Bonus action for a "Tactical Move". Disengage 10'. This has the same limitations as the "Sprint Bonus".
| Action + "Sprint Bonus" + "Tactical Move" | When combined, the "Tactical Move" will not provoke Attacks of Opportunity but the "Sprint Bonus" will.



These items should not overshadow any class abilities. The "Tactical Move" Disengage option is less than the Rogue's Cunning Action. The "Sprint Bonus" is does not outshine a class' fast Movement and stacks with the same. Any combat where a person can plant their feet allows more attacking to happen. Spellcasters can have more options in a round but do not have any guarantees, and are still limited to cantrips. Spells that are buffs/healing or have no saves are favored in this system, since there would be no Disadvantage to a Healing Word.

Lets constructively discuss these options, or direct me to another tested version to review. I appreciate everyone's time and effort.

[Unoriginal]

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Lets constructively discuss these options, or direct me to another tested version to review. I appreciate everyone's time and effort.

Do NPCs and monsters get to use those rules against the PCs?

[Johaan05]

Yes. These options would be available to the monsters and NPCs all the same. I would have to judge the monsters carefully, since some have a single, murderous attack that would change the game balance a lot, even when used at disadvantage. YMMV.

These work fine with humanoids in the times and opportunities that I have run them. I specifically had some Repeating XBow Derro peppering the party from their 3/4 cover stone archway.

[olskool]

If you're going to "poach" Pathfinder II's Action Economy, why not go to the suspected "original source?" The system seems to be based on the system that was introduced in Mongoose Publishing's Runequest II and carried into their Legend game system. It is also the system used by The Design Mechanism's Mythras (and Runequest 6). The system is actually pretty good and easy to use. Here's how I would modify it to D&D5e (I have 5 years of experience with this Initiative system).

Actions:

Everyone SHOULD get 3 ACTIONS in a 6-Second Combat Round. In addition, I'd give a single REACTION that is awarded by the DM. Each ACTION/REACTION will represent 1.5 Seconds of game time. The player can do anything with each of these ACTIONS that they would do with a normal 5e Action. These ACTIONS also include the D&D5e MOVEMENT Action and the Character COULD move 3 times in a 6-Second Round without any issues. The distance moved in a normal 5e movement is roughly equal to normal Human movement in about 2 seconds while encumbered. I would set default movement rates at...
- 5 Feet for crawling
- 10 Feet for walking
- 20 Feet for running
- 30 Feet for sprinting

And I'd give DISADVANTAGE for ACTIONS following a Running Move (except for Charging). This doesn't apply to riders.

Use of ACTIONS During Play:

Each combatant takes an ACTION (we use poker chips that we surrender to keep track of ACTIONS) based on highest Initiative rolled just like in 5e. The next Character/NPC then takes ONE ACTION (surrenduring a chip) until EVERYONE has taken ONE ACTION. Then the first combatant takes his second ACTION and the process repeats. This can cause havoc with builds that rely on a fast move, strategic strike, and a retreat. That's because your first ACTION will be the move. Your second ACTION will be an attack and your last ACTION will be the retreat. Thus there will be TWO sets of enemy ACTIONS taking place between your Three ACTIONS. REACTIONS always follow the triggering ACTION at the DM's direction and we use a different colored poker chip to represent them.
Using the third ACTION for a second Attack? In Mythras/Legend there is a defensive Parry so this ACTION is often used to defend. In D&D5e, the player COULD attack with the third ACTION, but I would give DISADVANTAGE to that attack AND not allow a Proficiency Bonus UNLESS the attacker had the Dual Wielding FEAT or could make TWO ATTACKS in a round. Then I would drop the penalties.

Casting ACTIONS

Casting a spell requires ONE ACTION for Verbal Components, ONE ACTION for Somatic Components, and ONE ACTION for using a Material Component. Thus Casters will use ALL THREE ACTIONS for casting. I would allow Combat Casters (the FEAT) to use a REACTION to replace a Casting ACTION. This would allow Combat Casters to either move or perform another ACTION with the sacrifice of a REACTION.

Missile Weapon Reloads:

Bows and Slings require ONE ACTION to reload between shots. Light Crossbows require ONE ACTION to **** a Crossbow and ONE ACTION to LOAD a bolt for TWO ACTIONS total between shots. Heavy Crossbows require TWO ACTIONS to **** and ONE ACTION to load the bolt for THREE ACTIONS between shots. Firearms (blackpowder types) Require FIVE ACTIONS to reload them.

This will definitely add some realistic interaction between the combatants as they exchange/execute ACTIONS one at a time in order rather than one combatant doing everything they want to on their turn.