Would you allow this loophole to augment an unarmed paladin?

[BurgerKingMan]

Looking at building a paladin that smites with his fists but without a weird multi-class into monk and becoming MAD in the process it seems like a dead end. Then I read a post somewhere on the internet that talked about taking the tavern brawler feat and using your gauntlets as improvised clubs. Under PHB pg 147 "At the DM's option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her proficiency bonus." This would allow to to make a bonus action attack with your "club". My idea is to start as a variant human with the tavern brawler feat and a level in fighter for the con save and the two weapon fighting style. The rest would be in oath of the crown paladin. As a DM would you allow this interpretation?

That is the first layer of cheese in this double cheeseburger

Since my gauntlets are improvised weapons they are not weapons until I decide to use them; If I punch with one fist with nothing in the other would this count for the dueling fighting style +2 bonus with my 2nd level in paladin? This would give me the cheese of quarterstaff + shield + PAM without the shield or looking ridiculous. Is there anything that I am reading wrong or does this seem viable?

[intregus]

I wouldn't allow you to use the twf style and the dueling style in one turn. They're supposed to be mutually exclusive.

I also think it's a stretch to treat gauntlets as a club and I wouldn't allow that either but that's really not that bad. Especially if your build is around smiting.

If you specifically want an unarmed smiter go fighter 1/pal 2/ sorc or bard X.

You have the improvised weapon feat and the twf style so you'll deal 1d4+mod +smite.

[BurgerKingMan]

I wouldn't allow you to use the twf style and the dueling style in one turn. They're supposed to be mutually exclusive.

I also think it's a stretch to treat gauntlets as a club and I wouldn't allow that either but that's really not that bad. Especially if your build is around smiting.

If you specifically want an unarmed smiter go fighter 1/pal 2/ sorc or bard X.

You have the improvised weapon feat and the twf style so you'll deal 1d4+mod +smite.

Yeah the second part is really just icing on the cake but for reasons unbeknownst to us (or to make the monk a useful class) a regular unarmed strike is not light so you can not normally use TWF with it, that is why the gauntlet = club is the lynchpin to this build idea.

[Malifice]

Looking at building a paladin that smites with his fists but without a weird multi-class into monk and becoming MAD in the process it seems like a dead end. Then I read a post somewhere on the internet that talked about taking the tavern brawler feat and using your gauntlets as improvised clubs. Under PHB pg 147 "At the DM's option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her proficiency bonus." This would allow to to make a bonus action attack with your "club". My idea is to start as a variant human with the tavern brawler feat and a level in fighter for the con save and the two weapon fighting style. The rest would be in oath of the crown paladin. As a DM would you allow this interpretation?

That is the first layer of cheese in this double cheeseburger

Since my gauntlets are improvised weapons they are not weapons until I decide to use them; If I punch with one fist with nothing in the other would this count for the dueling fighting style +2 bonus with my 2nd level in paladin? This would give me the cheese of quarterstaff + shield + PAM without the shield or looking ridiculous. Is there anything that I am reading wrong or does this seem viable?

Wut? You dont need any of this wierdness. If you want to Smite with Unarmed Strikes you already can:

'Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target...'

An attack with an unarmed strike is a 'melee weapon attack'. You can smite with your fists just fine, regardless of Monk levels, Tavern Brawler or anything else.

And no, gauntlets don't count for Dueling style:

'Dueling: When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.'

A gauntlet isnt a melee weapon you wield in one hand.

[BurgerKingMan]

Wut? You dont need any of this wierdness. If you want to Smite with Unarmed Strikes you already can:

'Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target...'

An attack with an unarmed strike is a 'melee weapon attack'. You can smite with your fists just fine, regardless of Monk levels, Tavern Brawler or anything else.

And no, gauntlets don't count for Dueling style:

'Dueling: When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.'

A gauntlet isn't a melee weapon you wield in one hand.

While I understand your point about just using regular punches I wouldn't have a good use of my bonus action (unfortunately unarmed strikes are not considered light) so I would be using a fist and a shield which looks more silly then just using both hands. I could just dual wield clubs and mechanically get the same benefit but I like the idea of punching and smiting the crud of my enemies in a flurry of blows. Typing out this response I should probably name this guy ALL - SMITE.

[DarkKnightJin]

You're sorta gimping yourself by not having a shield or a 'proper' weapon of you want to go Divine Fisticuffs as your character gimmick.
I'd allow you to Smite with unarmed strikes without needing Tavern Brawler if you wanted.

That said, I think it'd be wonderful flavor and would encourage you to embrace the Tavern Brawler style with TWF style. You wouldn't even need to dip Fighter, I'd let you have the style as a monoclass Paladin if you approached me with an idea like this.

Hell, I might nudge you toward taking some levels of Barbarian for the sheer fun factor of an angry Paladin.
Of course, you wouldn't have plate armor of you go Barb and want to enjoy the Rage goodies.. it's a tradeoff.

[CTurbo]

1st of all, I would allow any Paladin to take the TWF style at level 2 because why not?
2nd of all, I would allow the Dueling style's +2 to damage on a Gauntlet or Brass Knuckle or similar ONLY if you were wearing just one.
Finally, I have no issue allowing Smites on unarmed attacks with or without Tavern Brawler.

[JakOfAllTirades]

1st of all, I would allow any Paladin to take the TWF style at level 2 because why not?
2nd of all, I would allow the Dueling style's +2 to damage on a Gauntlet or Brass Knuckle or similar ONLY if you were wearing just one.
Finally, I have no issue allowing Smites on unarmed attacks with or without Tavern Brawler.

Indeed, none of the above are in any way as powerful as the usual Paladin builds using S&B or great weapon. It's a Rule of Cool character concept, not a Game Breaking character concept. Whatever makes it work within concept should be okay. Love this idea.

[stoutstien]

A while back I made a barbarian paladin that smited with a headbutt all the time. Was under power but very fun. Think it ended up zelot 3/ pally 11.

[Chronos]

If you're looking for a use for bonus actions, Tavern Brawler already gives you that, too: Whenever you hit with unarmed or improvised, you get to attempt a grapple as a bonus action.

Plus, of course, for a paladin, you've got all of those smiting spells (Thunderous Smite, Branding Smite, etc.), which are also bonus actions.

[sophontteks]

If you improvise a club, it is a club and no longer an improvised weapon. Improvised gauntlets are not a club, they just do 1d4+str.

[Sception]

If you were in my game, I'd work with you to homebrew a unique paladin oath to enable unarmed combat. Maybe vow of poverty themed, if you also wanted to fight unarmored?

Otherwise, this seems like a lot of stretching the rules to let you almost pretend to maybe sort of do a thing. Better to just write new rules that do the thing outright, imo.

[djreynolds]

so I would be using a fist and a shield which looks more silly then just using both hands.

Poor Captain America.

1. See if you can use the UA fighter archetype Brute.

2. What about other races like tabaxi, etc.

3. I don't know if you can use TWF and unarmed strikes and still get the BA, I think it's a martial arts thing

4. But you could CPT America with 1 fist and shield master and possibly duelist. 2 attacks and a BA at 5th

[Tanarii]

Under PHB pg 147 "At the DM's option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her proficiency bonus." This would allow to to make a bonus action attack with your "club".Good luck finding a DM that goes "oh yeah, gauntlets count as clubs, totes the same thing. Clearly." Except possibly sarcastically.


If you improvise a club, it is a club and no longer an improvised weapon.Also this.